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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 10:35:31 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:


So, every step of Evolution can be proven, eh?


There is the horseshit non-sequitur.   You look stupid when you claim others spouting nonsense, when all we see is asswipe proceeding from your breadhole.

Try to take a class or two in third grade remedial English comprehension and usage.

Evolution is a theory, not a law, it is certainly lacking in some respects.   Just as relativity is lacking, it isn't the exact truth, but as evidence mounts and we see more and more coincidence and congruence and concurrence with the stated theory we can adjust the minor parts of it that are wrong in exactitude. One is stateable, testable, and repeatable.  The other is not. 

The magic sky wizard shitsmear hasn't got one grain of anything to build on.  It is prima facie fairytale.   Unless you are securing a post-graduate degree in fairytales (something that is not solicited for you in a general education diploma) then it is nothing but a waste of fuckin oxygen.  


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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 10:39:41 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, every step of Evolution can be proven, eh?

Pretty much. Apart from a few wingnuts' objections about the earth only being six thousand years old the fossil record appears to be credible, and there's examples of natural selection taking place in the span of living memory. Until evolution is comprehensively disproven (rather than some retarded cunt with a mickey mouse degree written on toilet paper from some "Christian University" who's never heard of zeuglodons or archeoptrex insisting that there are no transitory fossils), then it can be taken as definitive.
quote:


Presenting the opposing argument isn't lying. It's the opposing argument. If it is fallacious, it doesn't make it any less of the opposing argument.

Maybe this is just my decadent European ways, but if an opposing argument is obviously and hilariously false, then it doesn't need to be presented as there's no likelihood that it might be correct.

You're just being argumentative to no purpose now, aren't you?

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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 10:52:45 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, every step of Evolution can be proven, eh?

Pretty much. Apart from a few wingnuts' objections about the earth only being six thousand years old the fossil record appears to be credible, and there's examples of natural selection taking place in the span of living memory. Until evolution is comprehensively disproven (rather than some retarded cunt with a mickey mouse degree written on toilet paper from some "Christian University" who's never heard of zeuglodons or archeoptrex insisting that there are no transitory fossils), then it can be taken as definitive.
quote:


Presenting the opposing argument isn't lying. It's the opposing argument. If it is fallacious, it doesn't make it any less of the opposing argument.

Maybe this is just my decadent European ways, but if an opposing argument is obviously and hilariously false, then it doesn't need to be presented as there's no likelihood that it might be correct.
You're just being argumentative to no purpose now, aren't you?


Nope. This isn't simply about Evolution v. Creation/ID. It's a general thing. Isn't it better to have an understanding of both sides of an argument when making a decision? I have maintained that it is, and what I get back is all pro Evolution arguments. Well, that's all fine and dandy, but that doesn't disprove my comments. Know the pro's and con's and you'll be better able to decide on a course of action, just as knowing both sides of an argument allows for you to make a better decision of validity. Not surprisingly, the US judicial system sure seems to agree with that line of thinking.

But, do go on.


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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 10:56:30 AM   
mnottertail


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Ayn Rand ------ see American Economy via Greenspan and the Vice Presidential teabag loser.

Now, on to science class.

See hundreds of years of evidence (that sifted thru millions of years of evidence) that evolution is how things work vs.a 3000 year old fairytale for which not one shred of evidence exists.

Now, on to teabagger inumeracy and other useless subjects.

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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 10:56:55 AM   
missiesfavourite


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Status: offline 		I do not think teaching children rubbish has any value

(Edited for spelling)

< Message edited by missiesfavourite -- 2/19/2013 10:58:19 AM >

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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 11:00:19 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Let us have a discussion which should enlighten our youth.

Cement is lighter than air vs dirigibles are lighter than air.

(what will we learn from this intriguing point-counterpoint of facts and logic?  I can't wait).

It should be good for American youth, rather than more math and  science.   

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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 11:02:00 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missiesfavourite

I do not think teaching children rubbish has any value

(Edited for spelling)

Ja, aber Ich kann dies. Fertig!!!!  Mispelled or correctly speeeeeelleeeeeed.

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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 11:27:15 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Nope. This isn't simply about Evolution v. Creation/ID.

It is when that's all you're discussing as part of ensuring the brats are given opposing views to the accepted facts, however farcical those opposing views happen to be.
Why not take the same approach to Physics as well as Biology? Give equal time to the notion that there are only four elements, and electricity works because little pixies are hiding inside the wires...

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 11:30:50 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I thought it was Earth, Wind, and Fire, is there a fourth?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og1T491SiJU


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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 11:43:35 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Ra-ra-Rasputin! Russia's greatest love machine!
(Hang on, that was Boney M, wasn't it?)

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 11:48:22 AM   
mnottertail


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Fyodor Dostoevsky

Tovarisch!!!


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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 11:56:53 AM   
PeonForHer


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Just a quick Q: if it were made compulsory to teach ideas that oppose accepted theories - like that of 'creationism' to oppose evolution - would that mean the teaching of Marxism and anarchism might also be made compulsory in order to oppose capitalism?

Oh, whoopsies, where *is* this all going to end up?!

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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 12:03:09 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Today we will be studying astronomy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfym8MdKNNY

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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 7:30:34 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
FR
Just a quick Q: if it were made compulsory to teach ideas that oppose accepted theories - like that of 'creationism' to oppose evolution - would that mean the teaching of Marxism and anarchism might also be made compulsory in order to oppose capitalism?
Oh, whoopsies, where *is* this all going to end up?!


I think it would be good to teach Capitalism in the first place...

And, I can see how there could be a very, very good discussion among our HS kids about socialism, communism, capitalism, fascism, total lassez-faire-ism, etc. Add in the real world examples of as many as possible, and yeah, I'd be all for that.


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What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/19/2013 9:12:05 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
How is it that if both sides of an argument are presented and the student is to come up with decision as to what is true or now without any form of debate or discussion?


This is a failure in reasoning commonly known as an argument from ignorance. Just because you are ignorant of an alternative doesn't mean that they are also ignorant of alternatives.

Furthermore being ignorant of the reality that people routinely make decisions without debating others doesn't justify pulling stuff out of your ass and shoving it in other people's mouths.

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/20/2013 5:38:55 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
How is it that if both sides of an argument are presented and the student is to come up with decision as to what is true or now without any form of debate or discussion?

This is a failure in reasoning commonly known as an argument from ignorance. Just because you are ignorant of an alternative doesn't mean that they are also ignorant of alternatives.
Furthermore being ignorant of the reality that people routinely make decisions without debating others doesn't justify pulling stuff out of your ass and shoving it in other people's mouths.


Whatever, man. You go on about your business. I'll go on about mine. Enjoy.


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What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/20/2013 12:31:09 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Whatever, man. You go on about your business. I'll go on about mine. Enjoy.


I'm serious man, your logic is faulty. You've made a leap in reasoning which is unsound: http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/ignorance.html


Consider that there are possible alternatives, for instance:

Billy goes to Biology class in Redneckville Texas, his teacher explains that some people believe in evolution and some believe in creationism. "You make your own conclusions about which one is true." Little Billy doesn't need to ponder for even a second, it's not really even a decision because he already believes in creationism since his parents have been telling him it's true for years. Thus no fixed beliefs are challenged and no parental authority is undermined.

Please note that the above is consistent with the Texas GOP's statements (instead of being in opposition to their explicit statements like yours) and is exactly the sort of thing that creationists have spent decades lobbying for.

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RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/20/2013 2:04:15 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Whatever, man. You go on about your business. I'll go on about mine. Enjoy.

I'm serious man, your logic is faulty. You've made a leap in reasoning which is unsound: http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/ignorance.html
Consider that there are possible alternatives, for instance:
Billy goes to Biology class in Redneckville Texas, his teacher explains that some people believe in evolution and some believe in creationism. "You make your own conclusions about which one is true." Little Billy doesn't need to ponder for even a second, it's not really even a decision because he already believes in creationism since his parents have been telling him it's true for years. Thus no fixed beliefs are challenged and no parental authority is undermined.
Please note that the above is consistent with the Texas GOP's statements (instead of being in opposition to their explicit statements like yours) and is exactly the sort of thing that creationists have spent decades lobbying for.


Perhaps Evolution isn't something "Little Billy" is mature enough to grasp, then? If a person isn't at an age where critical thinking skills can truly be learned, perhaps they aren't mature enough to have religious belief systems challenged? Wouldn't it be better to start at the earliest age of potential critical thinking and start with the easy stuff? As they mature and develop better reasoning skills, the deeper subjects can be brought to the fore, no?

But, you're right. Let's petition government for lessons comparing religion and nihilism for 1st graders. They should be able to ready by then.

And, with that, I'm going to assert that I, too, am serious in what I said before: "Whatever, man. You go on about your business. I'll go on about mine. Enjoy. "

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/20/2013 2:12:16 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:


If a person isn't at an age where critical thinking skills can truly be learned, perhaps they aren't mature enough to have religious belief systems challenged? Wouldn't it be better to start at the earliest age of potential critical thinking and start with the easy stuff? As they mature and develop better reasoning skills, the deeper subjects can be brought to the fore, no?



Teaching Santa Claus would be something you shouldn't do then.
Equivalences would be intelligent design, and creationism, and Ayn Rand.

No sense stuffing their head with ignorant foolishness.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Bill Would Require All Idaho Kids To Read Ayn Rand�... - 2/20/2013 2:31:47 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:


If a person isn't at an age where critical thinking skills can truly be learned, perhaps they aren't mature enough to have religious belief systems challenged? Wouldn't it be better to start at the earliest age of potential critical thinking and start with the easy stuff? As they mature and develop better reasoning skills, the deeper subjects can be brought to the fore, no?

Teaching Santa Claus would be something you shouldn't do then.
Equivalences would be intelligent design, and creationism, and Ayn Rand.
No sense stuffing their head with ignorant foolishness.


Did someone take over your keyboard/account?!?!? No rabid foaming at the mouth vile hate spewing?!?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 160
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