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slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 5:37:58 PM   
breagha


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Hi all...

i've been having some interesting conversations with friends. they are my "vanilla" friends ( not that it should make a difference but i thought i should let you know ). They brought up some questions regarding my relationship with Master. Usually i skirt around the truth and hide our dynamic from them. i don't have many people that i can discuss my relationship openly with so this time i decided to answer honestly. My mistake.

i sat for an hour while i was run down. i was called weak willed. i was told ( and they tried to convince me it was true ) i was in a semi abusive relationship. One friend said that she cannot believe that i would live this way and that she feels it is beneath me as a woman to be under control of a man. One is not speaking to me suddenly because she will not accept and cannot support a relationship like the one i have.

my questions are: how many of you have had this happen to you? when did being submissive equate being weak? is there any reparation for my lost friendship?

what hurts the most is that nothing about me has changed. i still act the same and look the same. Yet somehow me saying " i don't know yet. i will have to ask him and get back to you" has cost me a very important person. i suppose my lesson is learned.
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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 5:43:39 PM   
TheLilSquaw


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They are forming their opinions on the information or lack of information that you are giving them.

I've never personally had this issue, although those who I call my "friends" have always known about my lifestyle choices.

So that it could be discussed openly and honestly. They haven't always agreed with it but the fact that we discussed things openly and they felt like they could ask questions makes it so much easier.



< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 2/11/2013 5:45:43 PM >


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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 5:51:09 PM   
OsideGirl


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People who are outside of WIITWD only have the media and the news to form their opinions of what we do. So, they don't understand and they don't want to understand.

I long ago adopted a policy that the only people that need to know the details of any relationship are the people who are actually in the relationship. This lesson was taught to me by my stepbrother as he told me how horrible he thought my stepfather treated my mother. While that relationship may not have been what he or I had chosen, my mother and stepfather adored each other and had a very happy marriage.





< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 2/11/2013 5:53:29 PM >


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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 5:56:41 PM   
breagha


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Oside- definitely thinking that this policy is best. being that they were close friends i thought i could confide and that they would not necessarily understand... but would be accepting as it is something that makes me happy. i was wrong.

Lil Squaw - i didn't give them detailed info. just explained the basics of my relationship. maybe that was my bad. seems to me that they aren't interested in hearing anything about what it is we do.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 5:57:05 PM   
lmpishlilhellcat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha


what hurts the most is that nothing about me has changed. i still act the same and look the same. Yet somehow me saying " i don't know yet. i will have to ask him and get back to you" has cost me a very important person. i suppose my lesson is learned.




This strikes a nerve for me. My husband and I don't really have a D/s dynamic. We live a more vanilla lifestyle than anything else. Often times if I'm going to make plans I still ask his opinion, I ask if he minds, or I ask about our plans. He does the same with me. I guess I don't understand why you having to check with your guy would irritate someone. To me it's just part of being considerate to my partner and it doesn't just pertain to BDSM. It's part of being in a relationship. It's a primary relationship and it takes focus.

I've always been very open and honest with my friends about my relationships. They in return have always been very supportive about whatever life decisions I have made. At times they may not have agreed, but have still loved me the same. I couldn't possibly imagine having someone in my life that wouldn't at least try to understand where I'm coming from or be supportive of me no matter what choices I make.

I'm sorry that someone so important didn't understand.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 6:03:57 PM   
breagha


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Imp- i am still hoping she will come around. part of me feels like the "shock" of knowing someone who lives the taboo type life ( in her eyes ) might have ignited her reaction. if she doesn't want to be friends... then it is her loss as much as mine. and for clarity i'm not sure it was me having to ask him or the explanation of why that did it. i plan on trying to talk to her in a few days.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 6:07:41 PM   
lmpishlilhellcat


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Maybe you can gather some information that is less damaging than what is projected in the mainstream. Something that will help her to understand where you are coming. Maybe after some of the shock wears off, she will be much calmer and/or willing to listening.

Good luck!!

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 6:15:42 PM   
breagha


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that is a good idea. and i will definitely get to work on that. and thank you for the good luck wish. might need it.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 6:39:35 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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I've had it happen to me with my daughter. While I never went into bdsm technically with her or tell her I am Master's slave, we did have a casual conversation one day about our relationships and I explained to her that our traditional relationship we are in where I rely on him to make decisions, for him to take the reign and not me.

My daughter became very angry and upset with me at that point. My daughter is extremely feminist in that she believes in what she called equal relationship, although if you have ever seen her relationship, that's not how I see it. She does what she wants, despite what he thinks. It's all about her.

She has called me weak and wrong and insulting to modern women everywhere. Yeah, it bothered me at first to the point I even cried to Master about how she felt towards me. I mean, she's my daughter. It hurt. But over time, I have learned to just let it be and just live my life and relationship the way Master and I wish it to be. She can just continue to roll her eyes all she wants. I don't live my life for her anymore since she's now an adult.

The ones who walk away from you have proven they are not your friends. If others disagree with you but still stick around just tell them that you are not always in agreement with their choices either but live and let live. If they continue to look down upon you then you know they are not your friends.


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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 7:32:22 PM   
theshytype


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If she's a real friend, she'll come around. She may not ever agree with it, but hopefully she will learn to accept its what makes you happy. That's what should be important to her - your happiness.
I do find it odd that if she thought it was a somewhat abusive relationship, how she could just walk away.

I'm really careful about discussing details regarding my relationships with those that are close to me. There's only two people that need to know. Him and me.
I've seen people only say negative things about their significant other to friends and family ("oh, you know what he/she did now?") and caused the others to only view that significant other in a negative light. They take what little information they have and form their opinion. Could be the same thing here.

I hope that after some time you both work it out.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 8:06:10 PM   
sexyred1


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I have had this happen to me. However, it was not the fact that I am into BDSM that was the issue with my vanilla friends.

It was that I confided in them about how badly my boyfriend was treating me.

So, even when I was no longer mad at him, they would stay mad (as they should have).

When you complain about someone, you cannot fault friends for being upset at that.

If you did not complain about your relationship and only confided that it was not vanilla, then your friends are being judgemental, and that is different.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 8:26:59 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha

Imp- i am still hoping she will come around. part of me feels like the "shock" of knowing someone who lives the taboo type life ( in her eyes ) might have ignited her reaction. if she doesn't want to be friends... then it is her loss as much as mine. and for clarity i'm not sure it was me having to ask him or the explanation of why that did it. i plan on trying to talk to her in a few days.


What exactly was it that you told her that you consider "basics?" I mean if someone said to me, "he's my master, and I'm his slave," (and of course I wasn't familiar with BDSM), I would have some questions.

Sometimes how we word something can make all the difference to someone understanding that it is a happy, healthy, relationship.

ETA:

Just to be clear, an example.

"When I do something wrong, he beats me." vs. "We have a non traditional relationship where we each have guidelines for our behavior and their are repercussions for transgressions."

The first one would make (and should really) someone think you are being abused, where the second would make them question what you mean by that, inviting further discussion.



< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 2/11/2013 8:29:32 PM >

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 9:08:37 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
I think this sort of reaction isn't too uncommon,
I sympathise, but I have no insight into what
motivates that type of reaction, confusion in the
face of things they don't understand could
explain half of it but I'd like to think more of
people than to just say they are afraid of whats
different...

But in the end it doesn't matter, the bomb has
been dropped, my advice is just wait and see
how things are when the smoke clears.



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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 10:00:18 PM   
theRose4U


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Funny thing about real friends...they love you when you get the worst haircut on the planet. They love you when you marry an unethical bastard...then buy the drinks when you figure it out. There is this country song you should check out called "find out who your friends are".

Since I haven't seen LP reply I will relay what her slave clip tells others that see marks or hear he's sub. His reply is "I like rough sex, get your own". My suggestion is avoid the intervention with "look I like kinky sex & this guy works for me, it doesn't mean he's perfect or I never have doubts but this is my choice & hope as my friend you will accept that".

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 10:06:59 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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I feel really badly that this has happened but, I think there may be some level of your needing your friends' approval.

Well, I hate to reduce something this complex to a child-like thing but I believe that Dr, Seuss has your answer:

quote:


Be who you are and say what you feel because those that mind don't matter and those that matter won't mind





Peace and comfort,



Michael


< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/11/2013 10:07:14 PM >


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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 10:42:13 PM   
evesgrden


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Breagha, there's a very simple answer.

There is total equality. You have the choice, and this is what you like. You have all the power in the world and if this wasn't exactly the way you wanted your relationship to work, assure your friends that you'd leave in a heartbeat. If you felt abused, you'd leave. If you didn't like the way you were being treated, you'd leave.

But the reality is, you get off on it. I'm not even talking about play, but about the relationship.. this is what you want in a relationship, and you need to tell your friends that this is what works for you. If you weren't with him, you would seek the same type of relationship with another man, who had similar qualities and where you could be in a role similar to what you have now.

You don't need to mention d/s. Just tell your friends that you have the power to choose, and this is what you choose now and would choose again. They might look at you as if you're weird, not understanding, but they won't worry about you being abused or weak.

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What you permit, you promote.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/11/2013 11:09:16 PM   
JustDragonflies


Posts: 50
Joined: 3/30/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha

i sat for an hour while i was run down. i was called weak willed. i was told ( and they tried to convince me it was true ) i was in a semi abusive relationship. One friend said that she cannot believe that i would live this way and that she feels it is beneath me as a woman to be under control of a man. One is not speaking to me suddenly because she will not accept and cannot support a relationship like the one i have.

my questions are: how many of you have had this happen to you? when did being submissive equate being weak? is there any reparation for my lost friendship?




Some thoughts:

1: No one, friend or not, is entitled to berate you about your choices. Even if you were being abused, that's not a supportive stance to take and it actually would further isolate the victim if their friend approached them like that. So I take it that they are not necessarily well educated on abuse, or how to advocate for an abuse victim. The fact of the matter is, in an abusive relationship the abuser controls the victim without their consent, and slowly, silently removes their autonomy and sense of self. They are never informed that this will take place. It just happens. It's confusing. It's degrading. And they didn't choose it. That's the difference between the power exchange lifestyle and abuse, in a nutshell. You have a choice. You have the power. You have the control. You're choosing to share it with someone in exchange for them conducting themselves in what you feel is a supportive, appropriate, ethical, loving, responsible, respectful manner as you see it. Trust is earned. Communication is, ideally open and vital. Those elements are not present in an abusive relationship. If you feel up to it, it might benefit your relationship with your friends to discuss how and why BDSM isn't abuse. I've discussed some clear reasons, and there are many essays online about this precise topic. Many people's family/friends have concerns so there's quite a bit of info you can share.

2. Their feelings, their preferences are theirs. And they're not entitled to impose them on you. You have your own will, your own feelings, your own preferences. Perhaps how they live isn't how you'd live. Shift the perspective and see, if you were the judgmental one you could be calling them out instead. (That's not appropriate either, mind you, but my point is that it's all about perspective.) They do not have to live within your relationship and you're not asking them to do so. Nothing is being imposed upon them. And that concept is one which might be ideal to present to them. You're doing what makes you happy, you're being responsible and you're not imposing your lifestyle upon them. However, like in most loving relationships, you want to take your partners needs into consideration. The practical way that looks and sounds in BDSM may differ from vanilla dynamics, but it's a common philosophy. If I were you, I'd ask that my friends respect my desire to navigate my life and ask them to be patient when that impacts my availability to them. But, that's going to happen in any relationship vanilla or not! One only has so much time and energy to invest. Any relationship would make ripples in the other things that is in a person's life, I think.

3. There's a lot of difference between what one says and how one says it. Abraham Lincoln has a quote I read as a child that has always influenced my conduct to a great degree. He said something to the effect of, If you want someone to do something for you... you have to find a way to get them to want to. Now that may seem simplistic but I always found it to be rather profound because it takes into account that individuals need motivation and there are boundaries, which vary from person to person, which must be overcome. When I talked to my friends and family about my involvement in the power exchange lifestyle I took that into consideration and I talked to them in a couple of different ways and had quite positive results.

One way (a Taking It Seriously way) was to tell them I wanted to talk to them about something happy in my life, but which was controversial. I asked for their patience in hearing me out and I went into it with some ideas in mind of what I wanted to communicate. (Love, respect, intimacy, intensity, realistic self protection, safety, trust and etc.) I did that with some people because I knew that it would show them that I was thoughtful, serious, sincere and responsibly acknowledging the "questionable" elements in what I was doing. I talked to them about it on my terms, and I opened up a dialog that reflected why I do what it is I do. I controlled the terms that the conversation took place on. I did that because I knew some people in my life would be concerned and would need to sit down and talk about their feelings and concerns. I knew they'd need to understand I took my safety seriously and I recognized there were some risky elements. I gave them a chance to ask questions and I tried to answer honestly and openly. I also invited them to read some books on the topic, to visit some websites and so on and so forth. And I asked them to come back to me with their feedback and questions and acknowledged it was a lot to process.

The other way (the more Light Hearted way) was to talk about it was more in passing, like when it came up in conversation. If there wasn't enough time to go into the details I wanted to cover (love, respect, intimacy, intensity, safety, trust etc) I didn't touch on it yet. I waited until I could discuss the important factors. I still controlled the information they initially received and I still invited them to ask questions, but with these kinds of people in my life, I knew they were more open minded and wouldn't need to see as much "taking my welfare seriously" evidence, like other people might. I tried to diplomatically gauge which group my friends and family fell into.

I had to hear many close-minded (or wacky, or humorous) concerns, but I remained calm, reasonable, affectionate, humorous and educated in my responses to those individuals and I soothed as many concerns as they would voice, and opened up about other things which they might be too shy to inquire about. I think my ability to take their needs and morals into account helped me open up a dialog with my loved ones so that now, I have their full acceptance and support. Everyone relatively important in my life knows about my involvement in power exchange and poly and it's become, mostly a lighthearted topic. They even come to me with interesting sexual/relationship questions and stories because I've brought a new perspective to their life.

I'm not saying my way is the right or best way, but I found it has been very successful. Several members of my friends and family are conservative, religious, feminist and so on and so forth so I was concerned about how it would pan out. On a personal note, I chose to be open about it with my loved ones because of a few factors. Primarily, I've noticed that people tend to react poorly to something they sense another party is ashamed of or trying to hide. When things are pretty open, sincere and honest people tend to view the topic more favorably. Additionally, I wanted to advocate for the power-exchange dynamic. I don't believe I'm doing anything wrong and I wanted to open up people's minds and hearts to that. I am fully aware not everyone finds that "activism" appealing or desirable or possible in their situation. But I took the concept of being open pretty seriously and gave it a lot of thought.

Regardless of how open you'd like to be in the future, I recommend that you reach out to your friends and call them together or one on one and talk to them about this again, since the cat is already out of the bag and their position in your life is meaningful to you. If you have a hard time responding verbally and opening up, I recommend writing a letter and in writing, share with them why you are choosing the lifestyle, what it means to you, what you see in your partner. Try to listen to their concerns and figure out how to assert your right to make your own life's choices, but let them know you want to work on showing them something that is important to you.

Lastly, in my not so humble opinion.... the friend who said that she can't accept/or support your relationship is probably someone that you are better off without, over all. The reality is, she isn't condoning your relationship by being your friend. She is supporting YOU. If she can't see that your intimate romantic relationship doesn't involve her, then she's got a very intrusive mentality about what is her business vs what's not. And frankly, it's manipulative and emotionally abusive to emotionally blackmail you about how you conduct your romantic relationships. Take the fluffy talk away and essentially, she is saying is 'If you do X, I can't be your friend.' The implication is that you ought to choose her over X. That's emotional abuse 101. It denies your free will. And it implies that you're responsible for how she chooses to manage her feelings and thoughts. Every adult is in charge of managing that on their own. She has a choice, and she's trying to hold you accountable. Again, emotional abuse 101. You deserve friends who won't hold their position in your life hostage in order to force to you to yield to their preferences.

I kind of wrote a mini-novel about this and I hope my thoughts and opinions weren't too intrusive or overwhelming!

(in reply to breagha)
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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 2:49:10 AM   
lilcracker


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My relationship is very vanilla but I do as I am told without question, nor do I ever question him. For example, there are times, (not recently however) that he comes in very late or very early in the morning. I never ask, "Where were you?" I simply say, "I'm glad you are home." My friends think it is odd, that I don't question him, that I just do what is expected. My response is, "I hate to argue and in past relationships questioning him not doing as he asked simply caused us to argue. I dislike that sort of stress in my life." I have also been known to us this tactic with friends, "I love him, I want to keep him around therefore I keep him happy. He'll never find another woman like me." The negative comments I have received are, "I could never do that." or "You are way too nice." I think part of it is because they see that I am very content and happy in my relationship BECAUSE I really am AND he is a very good man. If they felt I was unhappy about my life their responses may be different. And yes I do often say, "I'll have to ask and get back to you."

I can and DO understand the 'weak' thing. Because I look at both sides of the coin...and honestly I think it depends on the delivery of how, "I'll have to ask and get back to you." When my daughter says it, I 'think' weak simply because her other half is a controlling person and abusive to a point and when she says it to me, I can see in her eyes that she simply hates having to say that to me and she is not really happy that she is in the relationship even though she pretends hard to be.

I am not saying you are not happy because I don't know you but---if you think about how you said things to your friends...you might find ways to change the way you say it in a more positive light. Good luck.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 3:39:50 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


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FR

This is a tough one because without seeing the interaction first hand, I don't know whether to think 'How rude of them!' or 'Gosh, they were just looking out for you'.

I worked with domestic abuse victims. Until a person is ready to accept it and take action, very very few people believe or will admit they are being abused. The police can tell them, the doctor can tell them, the priest can tell them, their mother and their children can tell them, and they will not agree. It's a self-preservation thing. There are a whole heap of good reasons for that. I have sat with people and tried to have rational, fact-based discussions about their situations and inside been screaming 'how can you not see this is abusive?!' We lost a member of our own family to domestic abuse. Thinking that someone you care about is being abused is terrifying and you feel so helpless and desperate.

I'm not saying you are abused, OP, and obviously I know enough about both D/s and DV to understand they are distinct and separate, but it's possible that your friends really were genuinely worried for you and believed they were doing the best thing for you by trying to convince you. I don't know exactly what was said, or what they have seen about your relationship but there might be something that triggered genuine concern rather than any desire to belittle your choices. If you honestly and truly believed a close friend, sister, daughter, whoever, was in danger, wouldn't you try to convince them too?

Of course, I could be wrong and they may just be horribly judgmental, I just wanted to put that out there.

Re the whole women's rights/weakness thing: I always think that women stood up for equal rights to prevent women being forced into roles that they didn't want to take up. I don't believe they were fighting for women to just be forced into a different role and have to fulfill that. I believe everyone has the right to be treated as an equal in a relationship, I also believe they have the right to 'opt out' and find the relationship dynamic that makes them happy, secure and fulfilled.

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Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 3:51:05 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


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That is the reason I will never explain or discuss my sexual preferences with even my closest friends. It is hard..(& by nature I am VERY circumspect about discussing sex...) because when a group of close girlfriends get together topics come up (especially when the 50 Shades books came out & many were voicing their opinion). Today's attitude, especially towards women, is "you can be or do whatever you choose....as long as it is the correct choice". The people who scream the loudest about equal rights, treating women respectfully, allowing a woman to decide what is right for HER are often the ones who are ready to crucify the woman who chooses to do or like any type of traditional female role. If my friends found out about me, They would be dragging me to therapy..convinced they must intervene to fix my "self-esteem issues" or to "get me help so that I can see the light"..it would be an intervention that only Dr Phil would be appropriate for! I say, the only person living further and deeper in the closet than a submissive woman is a dominant man (even non-feminist women will lynch him for merely WANTING to find a submissive woman.. I am sorry that it happened and hope she eventually has enough love & respect for you & your friendship to understand that your choices do not reflect on her.

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