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RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 8:54:37 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

By law you cannot discriminate based on race, sex, or religion, etc.. However women are not forced to have male doctors or nurses. Muslims are not forced to have Jewish doctors or nurses. Therefore there is clearly a precident that suggests that discrimination is perfectly acceptable in some cases. If you deny someone the right to choose their caregiver based on race, then by default the system becomes open to lawsuits by caregivers who are discriminated against for reasons that have been considered to be perfectly acceptable up to this point.


And a man who is dead set against a female physician is not forced to have a female physician unless its a life threatening situation and that is all that is available.

Something else you are not considering. These men and women you speak about, are adults, making their own decisions about their own health. This case is a father who is making this decision for his child. While that may not mean much to you, it will to a court of law.

quote:

Rape victims could be forced to suffer the care of the opposite sex during very difficult circumstances.


You believe an ER will only be staffed by men then?

quote:

Religious considerations? Gone. The flip side.... non-believers may be forced to accept the care of religious staffers who want to proclaim their faith at every turn.


We have that already. Never been to a Catholic hospital or to one from the bible belt?

quote:

Do you need halal or kosher food? Too bad, so sad.


If its not available in the hospital, they typically have no complaints about it coming from the outside.

quote:

Do you have mental issues from childhood trauma that make you legitimately afraid of people based on their race, sex, or sexual orientation... tough shit.


Then a psych evaluation will be ordered.

quote:

According to Vickie Winn, her hospital picks and chooses which discriminatory requests her hospital will honor. So, legal or not it is common practice, at least in some Michigan hospitals.


The important word there is... try.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 10:14:54 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		It's simple really. We allow certain exceptions. They are overlooked because most people agree that it's best to overlook them. I'm simply pointing out that when you don't overlook something anymore, you're open to unintended consequences.

Once upon a time someone decided to make a law designating certain areas as Gun free zones. Gun free zones sounded really great to the anti-gunners, but mysteriously almost all American mass slayings in recent years have happened in gun-free zones. It's an unintended consequence of what happens when you pass laws.

What I'm saying is that this is a pretty isolated incident. Lawsuits create precidence. Any lawsuit, especially civil rights lawsuits, have unintended consequences. Those consequences may not be worth the cost of satisfying the butthurt of a few nurses.

-SD-

_____________________________

To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 10:36:15 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And then they may satisfy the law that exists, and equal protections will apply.

The only unintended consequences would be that a person is treated as a person, instead of a shunnable commodity.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 10:45:24 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
If I say I will grant DesideriScuri the right to choose his own doctor because of his religion, then tell Fightdirecto that I will not grant him that same right because his religion does not qualify for him to have that right... I am violating Fightdirectos civil rights.
By the same token if I tell Fightdirecto If I say I will grant him the right to choose his own doctor because of his race, then tell DesideriScuri that I will not grant him that same right because his race does not qualify for him to have that right... I am violating DesideriScuri's civil rights.
According to Miss Winn, her hospital is doing exactly that. She is discriminating against people of a certain sex, and certain religions by not unilaterally granting them the same priveledges she grants others of a different sex and different religions. These are civil rights violations. It doesn't matter if it's for the greater good or not.
Lets pretend the nurse wins the case. Lets further pretend that part of the settlement includes some sort of guideline for who will be selected for the special privilege of selecting their own doctor because of their race, age, sex, sexual orientation and religion. Anyone who does not fit into those privileged categories would have the ability to sue based on the violation of their civil rights.
-SD-


Not how I read her response, SD. I didn't take her response to mean that they choose to comply with requests from these categories simply because of the category. It hit me as those categories tend to make requests that they can comply with more than the other categories. If 100 black females request a female nurse, and 100 white males request a petite asian nurse, which do you think would be easier to grant? And, granting 75% of the black females' requests and 25% of the white males' requests might look like favoritism, but it simply might be diversity issues. My last few hospital visits revolve around births, and I can't tell you honestly that there were any female asian nurses, nor any male nurses. There were black, white and hispanic female nurses, though. Had I made the request that only a male nurse care for my baby, would their noncompliance have revolved around my being a white male, or a simple fact that there weren't any male maternity nurses?

It's very difficult to determine why someone's request wasn't fulfilled while another's was without knowing the details behind of the request and the ability of the hospital to fulfill it.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 10:48:54 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

By law you cannot discriminate based on race, sex, or religion, etc.. However women are not forced to have male doctors or nurses. Muslims are not forced to have Jewish doctors or nurses. Therefore there is clearly a precident that suggests that discrimination is perfectly acceptable in some cases. If you deny someone the right to choose their caregiver based on race, then by default the system becomes open to lawsuits by caregivers who are discriminated against for reasons that have been considered to be perfectly acceptable up to this point.

And a man who is dead set against a female physician is not forced to have a female physician unless its a life threatening situation and that is all that is available.
Something else you are not considering. These men and women you speak about, are adults, making their own decisions about their own health. This case is a father who is making this decision for his child. While that may not mean much to you, it will to a court of law.


Wait. A father doesn't have the authority to make decisions about his child's health care? Where did you come up with that? Would it have made a difference if it was the mother making the request? Does it matter if the staff is already ethnically diverse enough to have complied without any rescheduling or anything?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 11:43:41 AM   
TinkerHell


Posts: 36
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline 		At the risk of being tedious:

Ignorance cannot be legislated, litigated or guidelined out of existence. On the plus side: These stories are covered because they are no longer the norm - thus worthy of the news cycle and sensationalism.

Clearing away the flotsam - we have a father with a child in the NICU. While I find his attitude and his request repulsive, as a former NICU Nurse I also know that I would have stepped aside, taken a moment to entertain the fantasy of bitch slapping him into a more enlightened state of mind then gone about my business. My identity is not threatened by the rampant stupidity of the people I have dealt with or deal with.

The Hospital has an obligation to the patient and by extension the family. If Asshat McBreeder was not comfortable having someone of another race care for his newborn and there was an equally qualified caregiver then the hospital was correct in making the note on the chart, not because they agree but because the first concern should be the patient. Take away the sensational and repugnant parts of the story and you are left with a parent with a child in distress - there are moments and places where we must draw a line in the sand, plant our flags and refuse to retreat - the NICU is not one of those places.


_____________________________


"My land is bare of chattering folk; the clouds
are low along the ridges, and sweet's the air
with curling smoke from all my burning bridges." ~ Dorothy Parker

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 11:48:54 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

By law you cannot discriminate based on race, sex, or religion, etc.. However women are not forced to have male doctors or nurses. Muslims are not forced to have Jewish doctors or nurses. Therefore there is clearly a precident that suggests that discrimination is perfectly acceptable in some cases. If you deny someone the right to choose their caregiver based on race, then by default the system becomes open to lawsuits by caregivers who are discriminated against for reasons that have been considered to be perfectly acceptable up to this point.

And a man who is dead set against a female physician is not forced to have a female physician unless its a life threatening situation and that is all that is available.
Something else you are not considering. These men and women you speak about, are adults, making their own decisions about their own health. This case is a father who is making this decision for his child. While that may not mean much to you, it will to a court of law.


Wait. A father doesn't have the authority to make decisions about his child's health care? Where did you come up with that? Would it have made a difference if it was the mother making the request? Does it matter if the staff is already ethnically diverse enough to have complied without any rescheduling or anything?

The courts have many times gone against the wishes of the parents especially to give life saving treatments withheld by so-called Faith Healers.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 12:01:32 PM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


You keep getting stuck on this "easier to grant" thing. That's irrelevant. If the law says you must do something, then it doesn't matter how much b.s.you have to put up with to comply with the law. You must comply or face the possibility of legal actions being taken against you. Period.

You know that. I know you know that!

Simply put: Lawsuits create precedence in how laws are interpreted. Exactly how civil rights laws might be interpreted in any case is unknown until it is finally settled. Often, those interpretations have repercussion that cannot be foreseen.

This is not an everyday occurrence. Statistically, it's apparently an anomaly if this is still an unclear aspect of civil rights law after all this time. If you look at the regulatory history of this country, it doesn't take long to realize that we like to fix things until they're broken. I'm just saying I don't think the cost will be worth the cure here. From a practical point of view, there are just too many ways this can end badly.

-SD-

_____________________________

To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 12:04:22 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:


Often, those interpretations have repercussion that cannot be foreseen.


Perhaps you could point out some of these unforseen repercussions.   Cuz you cant back up your felching piehole on the 25 jobs bills.......one untutored lie needs to get thru today.....

But then doesn't all law ruling produce unforseen repercussions?  Or is it just this black people law?

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 2/20/2013 12:05:38 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 12:33:48 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		Comedian Louis CK (with Jay Leno) on white people's complaints...

quote:

White people have the right to complain....


_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 1:46:15 PM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

My identity is not threatened by the rampant stupidity of the people I have dealt with or deal with.


I love this statement

(in reply to Fightdirecto)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 2:12:13 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The Hospital has an obligation to the patient and by extension the family. If Asshat McBreeder was not comfortable having someone of another race care for his newborn and there was an equally qualified caregiver then the hospital was correct in making the note on the chart, not because they agree but because the first concern should be the patient. Take away the sensational and repugnant parts of the story and you are left with a parent with a child in distress - there are moments and places where we must draw a line in the sand, plant our flags and refuse to retreat - the NICU is not one of those places.


Yes, the first concern should be the patient, not the family. Unless you believe that skin color makes a determination in the quality of care.... which should be the ONLY consideration when giving patient care.

This case isnt about the father, its about the hospital and policy and staffing needs and availability. Sorry, I cannot agree with you. A patient should not be able to determine staffing needs based upon his or her racial preference.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TinkerHell)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 2:13:28 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

By law you cannot discriminate based on race, sex, or religion, etc.. However women are not forced to have male doctors or nurses. Muslims are not forced to have Jewish doctors or nurses. Therefore there is clearly a precident that suggests that discrimination is perfectly acceptable in some cases. If you deny someone the right to choose their caregiver based on race, then by default the system becomes open to lawsuits by caregivers who are discriminated against for reasons that have been considered to be perfectly acceptable up to this point.

And a man who is dead set against a female physician is not forced to have a female physician unless its a life threatening situation and that is all that is available.
Something else you are not considering. These men and women you speak about, are adults, making their own decisions about their own health. This case is a father who is making this decision for his child. While that may not mean much to you, it will to a court of law.

Wait. A father doesn't have the authority to make decisions about his child's health care? Where did you come up with that? Would it have made a difference if it was the mother making the request? Does it matter if the staff is already ethnically diverse enough to have complied without any rescheduling or anything?

The courts have many times gone against the wishes of the parents especially to give life saving treatments withheld by so-called Faith Healers.


And, those have absolutely nothing to do with this situation. The parent wasn't withholding essential treatment. He wanted his son to get the treatment. How has this anything to do with "faith healers" being over-ruled by the courts?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 2:18:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Wait. A father doesn't have the authority to make decisions about his child's health care? Where did you come up with that? Would it have made a difference if it was the mother making the request? Does it matter if the staff is already ethnically diverse enough to have complied without any rescheduling or anything?


Certainly he does... to a point. Courts have intervened on more than one occasion. So has CPS. If the hospital had declined, what would the outcome have been? Would he have demanded the hospital discharge? An unstable patient in NICU? Not gonna happen. A transfer could be arranged if another hospital and physician agreed to take on the patient. If he had caused a scene, he could be escorted off the premises.

Again, people are so concerned about what was in the best interest of the father, not the patient.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 2:20:16 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

By law you cannot discriminate based on race, sex, or religion, etc.. However women are not forced to have male doctors or nurses. Muslims are not forced to have Jewish doctors or nurses. Therefore there is clearly a precident that suggests that discrimination is perfectly acceptable in some cases. If you deny someone the right to choose their caregiver based on race, then by default the system becomes open to lawsuits by caregivers who are discriminated against for reasons that have been considered to be perfectly acceptable up to this point.

And a man who is dead set against a female physician is not forced to have a female physician unless its a life threatening situation and that is all that is available.
Something else you are not considering. These men and women you speak about, are adults, making their own decisions about their own health. This case is a father who is making this decision for his child. While that may not mean much to you, it will to a court of law.

Wait. A father doesn't have the authority to make decisions about his child's health care? Where did you come up with that? Would it have made a difference if it was the mother making the request? Does it matter if the staff is already ethnically diverse enough to have complied without any rescheduling or anything?

The courts have many times gone against the wishes of the parents especially to give life saving treatments withheld by so-called Faith Healers.


And, those have absolutely nothing to do with this situation. The parent wasn't withholding essential treatment. He wanted his son to get the treatment. How has this anything to do with "faith healers" being over-ruled by the courts?


You were asking if a father had authority to make decisions about his child's health care.

Sorry but the courts overrule parents all the time. The government sees itself more and more in loco parentis.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 2:27:15 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

Wait. A father doesn't have the authority to make decisions about his child's health care? Where did you come up with that? Would it have made a difference if it was the mother making the request? Does it matter if the staff is already ethnically diverse enough to have complied without any rescheduling or anything?

Certainly he does... to a point. Courts have intervened on more than one occasion. So has CPS. If the hospital had declined, what would the outcome have been? Would he have demanded the hospital discharge? An unstable patient in NICU? Not gonna happen. A transfer could be arranged if another hospital and physician agreed to take on the patient. If he had caused a scene, he could be escorted off the premises.
Again, people are so concerned about what was in the best interest of the father, not the patient.


The father wasn't doing it for himself. He thought it was in the best interest of the patient. We absolutely, unequivocally agree that he was dead ass wrong. But, that isn't the issue, either. You can play the "what woulda happened" game all you want, too. We won't know "what woulda happened" since the hospital found it not to be an issue to meet the request.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: TinkerHell
The Hospital has an obligation to the patient and by extension the family. If Asshat McBreeder was not comfortable having someone of another race care for his newborn and there was an equally qualified caregiver then the hospital was correct in making the note on the chart, not because they agree but because the first concern should be the patient. Take away the sensational and repugnant parts of the story and you are left with a parent with a child in distress - there are moments and places where we must draw a line in the sand, plant our flags and refuse to retreat - the NICU is not one of those places.

Yes, the first concern should be the patient, not the family. Unless you believe that skin color makes a determination in the quality of care.... which should be the ONLY consideration when giving patient care.
This case isnt about the father, its about the hospital and policy and staffing needs and availability. Sorry, I cannot agree with you. A patient should not be able to determine staffing needs based upon his or her racial preference.


Did the hospital have to change their staffing diversity because of this request? If not, then this guy didn't " determine staffing needs based upon his or her racial preference."

(edited to fix a formatting error)

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 2/20/2013 2:28:23 PM >

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 2:32:15 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		If and when and coulda shoulda woulda. 



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 2:51:37 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		What I'm saying is that this is a pretty isolated incident. Lawsuits create precidence. Any lawsuit, especially civil rights lawsuits, have unintended consequences. Those consequences may not be worth the cost of satisfying the butthurt of a few nurses.

not as isolated as you may want to believe.

Before ROVNER, WILLIAMS, and SYKES, Circuit Judges.
Denise K. Larue, Meghan Uzzi Lehner, Haskin & Larue, LLP, Indianapolis, IN, for Plaintiff-Appellant.Stephen D. Lepage, Janet A. McSharar, William N. Ivers, Harrison & Moberly, Indianapolis, IN, for Defendant-Appellee.

This case pits a health-care worker's right to a non-discriminatory workplace against a patient's demand for white-only health-care providers. Plainfield Healthcare Center is a nursing home that housed a resident who did not want assistance from black certified nursing assistants. Plainfield complied with this racial preference by telling Brenda Chaney, a black nursing assistant, in writing everyday that “no black” assistants should enter this resident's room or provide her with care.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1532314.html



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 2:55:29 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The father wasn't doing it for himself. He thought it was in the best interest of the patient. We absolutely, unequivocally agree that he was dead ass wrong. But, that isn't the issue, either. You can play the "what woulda happened" game all you want, too. We won't know "what woulda happened" since the hospital found it not to be an issue to meet the request.


The courts would not see it that way. There is no difference in education or ability, and certainly none in liability, between a black nurse and a white nurse. Both are equally qualified to care for the child.

As far as the "request", it was pulled the next day, but staffing didnt change. The liability for this issue is on the hospital.

quote:

Did the hospital have to change their staffing diversity because of this request? If not, then this guy didn't " determine staffing needs based upon his or her racial preference."


I suggest you read the case I provided earlier.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: For Those Who Claim The U.S. Is Now A "Color-b... - 2/20/2013 3:23:31 PM   
TinkerHell


Posts: 36
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yes, the first concern should be the patient, not the family. Unless you believe that skin color makes a determination in the quality of care.... which should be the ONLY consideration when giving patient care.

This case isnt about the father, its about the hospital and policy and staffing needs and availability. Sorry, I cannot agree with you. A patient should not be able to determine staffing needs based upon his or her racial preference.


I've read your responses on this thread and on others and you appear to have difficulty filtering and processing information that doesn't mesh with your limited world view. Obviously I do not believe nor did I espouse the belief that skin color is determinant of quality of care and that leap of logic should have come with the Jackass Logo stamped on it. I very specifically wrote that there are times when we draw our line in the sand, plant our flag and refuse to retreat. You are welcome to disagree - however I stand by my assertion that you cannot litigate, or legislate away ignorance.

In a perfect world there are no bad parents, no ignorance and no one is judged on anything but their abilitieis. In the real world, there is ignorance and a premature infant in a NICU is not in a position to advocate for their needs. Those advocates unless Social Services becomes involved are the parents.

In your universe perhaps the family is not an issue but in my universe the concerns of the family are always an issue because with patients who can advocate for themselves, their families are a factor offering advice, opinions, prayers or whatever other nuttery they feel inclined to offer and the family dynamic affect patients. A neonate cannot self advocate, and if the nurse who found herself offended to the point of litigation had concerns she should have started by calling in Child Protective Services to begin an investigation into whether or not being a racist pig was reason enough to deny that father his right to advocate on behalf of his child as he saw fit. That would be putting the patient first.

As for the Hospital and Staffing needs, if there was no one else on staff this would be a non-issue - becasuse the choice would be: We are only staffed with African American RN's so we will see about moving your child to 1940's Germany or you must accept that your ignorance is putting your child in danger. The fact that there was a note on the chart says to me that the Unit was staffed with a diverse group of qualified caregivers and that it was in the best interest of the patient via the child's advocate to simply comply with the wishes of the father. Not every confrontation is going to be a Stonewall Moment. Also, given the litigious culture we live in, I would like to get the whole story - without the sensationalism... to see what all the facts were that dictated the hospital making the decision they did.

I am not a fan of anecdotes in debates but I think this is relevant: I live in a town outside of Atlanta where there are 31 churches and no bookstores - In the last couple of years as I dealt with a serious medical condition I have walked away from caregivers and others who have espoused ridiculous views about the evils of homosexuality, the power of prayer, the plague of Mexicans, our Muslim/Socialist/Atheist/Kenyan President, and the plot by Blacks to steal elections. In a sane reflection of the father in this case, I demanded that another nurse be assigned to me in the ICU after listening to the ignorant Xtian piece of garbage who was to take care of me spend the morning ranting about gay marriage and then allowed her pastor into my room to minister to me because I just seemed "too nice" to be an Atheist. Would you have suggested that I consider her qualifications as the only thing that mattered when it came to advocating for my own care?

_____________________________


"My land is bare of chattering folk; the clouds
are low along the ridges, and sweet's the air
with curling smoke from all my burning bridges." ~ Dorothy Parker

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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