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RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/23/2013 3:51:49 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		...or make his dreams come true.

In the end, sex is mechanical act in macro, in micro, it's a bit of a delicate dance in in itself, if it's going to be a positive experience, everybody has to give something.

BDSM is about: some people have a lot to give, others need a lot, that makes for D/s, but the mere fact that two people are interacting makes it an exchange, it's an economic exchange, value for value, even if the value is not measured in dollars and cents because it's a first a social exchange.

This is monogamous logic, but either way, if you enter into a deal as nebulous as this, the logical thing to do in any exchange is maximize your value and minimize your costs.

You say you're just exploring, that's good, and if you can make friends doing it, then you'll probably come out ahead.

Like I said, you're pretty and you look kinda innocent, that is going to attract a guy who likes pretty girls he can take advantage of, I already told you I'd be all over you if I were 30 years younger, i.e., you're very fragility attracts me, it's not just me, it's almost all of us, but to a large extent that's not BDSM, it's life.

But I look at your profile, I see babygirl, you need a little tlc, but that means you respect your self, you're allowing yourself to be vulnerable, you were burned once but you're not jelling - that's strong girl, and I for one cannot do otherwise than respect that, and that's what you should look for in any relationship D/s or otherwise.

It's harder for a submissive presumably, a lotta selfish people, self interest is universal, it's why it's the fundamental premise of capitalism, so be self interested, it doesn't work if you don't, and find the value in things wherever you can, and don't let anybody live in your head for free, there is a sort of symmetry in a satisfying exchange.

Something I meant to mention about watching two girls together, or I suppose any two people interacting intimately - it can be so exquisite, and you can't really force that. IF you can take that past symmetry into harmony, then baby, that's art.

Anyway, I hope this guy does right by you, you sound like an awesome chick.

_____________________________

Walking nightmare...

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/23/2013 5:22:31 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: descrite

OP, step back for a second and look at what you're saying, and what I'm saying: you said you moved into a new thing that is very important to you, without any foreknowledge, and your sole source of information was the person you were going to be involved with.

Imagine, for a second, this was a business transaction, and not a romantic relationship. Someone comes to you with a proposal ("I have a gold mine") and they offer to cut you in for a reasonable investment.

I'm assuming you don't know anything about mining, or the market for gold. For the sake of argument.

Now, you think it might be a good idea, and you have the capital to make an investment, but you know nothing about the field or the topic...so you can gather some info about the venture in several different ways:

1) Ask your prospective partner to explain everything. Ask questions.

2) Go to external sources, get a variety of expert opinions, and do some research.

3) Get the agreement in writing, then take it elsewhere and have it valued by other potential investors.


What you did was 1. That's okay, and it's a start, but you would be an idiot if you only took your prospective partner's word for everything, in a deal that means a lot to both of you, and has a potential to harm both of you.

You should have also done 2. Which is what I was saying. 3, too, but that's a bit more advanced.

Here's the thing: if you've gone to high school in America, they've taught you to do 2. They even taught you how. So when I ask you not to enter the political realm, it's because you've demonstrated, concretely, by your actions, that you are not interested in performing your due diligence (1, 2, and 3) prior to engaging in a transaction-- I'm fairly certain you made no effort to look up any information about any of the candidates on the ballot, or did any research whatsoever about the issues of the day. I apologize if I'm wrong, and please feel free to bitchslap me if I'm way off, but if the entire extent of your investigation into something your boyfriend "experienced in his life" was to ask him about it, then I think I'm safe in guessing that you didn't put forth much more effort in choosing elected officials.

But I am glad you shared more about how the situation developed. You had not done that previously, leaving commenters to make assumptions. It's good to include more info.



FFS, man. You're telling a 19 yo girl in her first lifestyle relationship that she needs to do a PhD dissertation on any guy she dates?


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

I already told you I'd be all over you if I were 30 years younger,


Oh, yeah? I'd be elbowing you out of the way.
quote:



Anyway, I hope this guy does right by you, you sound like an awesome chick.


Agreed.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to descrite)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/23/2013 8:19:35 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		You're going to be okay OP. You are already learning things, you know how to stand up for yourself, and yes...you are very very attractive and have a sweetness about you too.

I am experiencing a bit of affectionate envy lol :)

Don't sell yourself short and don't settle.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/23/2013 8:27:14 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alic3
but is there a way to have a romantic D/s relationship?

Ah yes... the land of definitions and labels. I honestly don't know given that mindset. But in the real world where people have actual personality traits I guess the question I'd ask is, "What do you think happens when someone who happens to prefer leading falls in love with someone who happens to prefer following?"

Carol and I are in a romantic relationship because we love each other. The D/s part is simply who we are. It isn't sexual. We don't "try" to be that. It happens because I opt for leadership slots and she prefers the supporting role.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Alic3)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/23/2013 9:46:13 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alic3
but is there a way to have a romantic D/s relationship?

Ah yes... the land of definitions and labels. I honestly don't know given that mindset. But in the real world where people have actual personality traits I guess the question I'd ask is, "What do you think happens when someone who happens to prefer leading falls in love with someone who happens to prefer following?"

Carol and I are in a romantic relationship because we love each other. The D/s part is simply who we are. It isn't sexual. We don't "try" to be that. It happens because I opt for leadership slots and she prefers the supporting role.



I wish there was a like button

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/24/2013 12:36:30 AM   
descrite


Posts: 459
Joined: 5/14/2012
Status: offline

quote:

FFS, man. You're telling a 19 yo girl in her first lifestyle relationship that she needs to do a PhD dissertation on any guy she dates?


No. I'm saying she needs to pull her head out of her ass, stop acting like a child, and be a grown woman: we are living in a world with the combined knowledge of all human history available at her fingertips (literally); the "I had no way of knowing" wears pretty thin for a generation that can find rips of the latest Justin Timberlake movie twelve weeks before it's released to theaters.

I'm not going to Google "BDSM relationship young girl/older man," but I'm guessing it would be pretty revelatory. And might include material someone with a conflict of interest wouldn't think to share with her. Or, shit-- I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt: let's say he told her everything to expect, in a forthright and self-aware manner-- her research would validate his assertions and confirm her trust in him.

It's kinda what intelligent beings should do, before making life choices.

(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/24/2013 1:50:13 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Except she was already involved with him in a vanilla sense when he bothered to tell her. Of course, then she DID begin to research, which included coming here. To find fuckwits who have the reading comprehension of a twelve year old conspiracy theorist failing to notice that so he can tell her she should have noticed before he said something.

(in reply to descrite)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/24/2013 2:10:49 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Except she was already involved with him in a vanilla sense when he bothered to tell her. Of course, then she DID begin to research, which included coming here. To find fuckwits who have the reading comprehension of a twelve year old conspiracy theorist failing to notice that so he can tell her she should have noticed before he said something.


agreed so qft

needles

_____________________________

I deserved better. Not than you, but from you.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/24/2013 7:38:59 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Except she was already involved with him in a vanilla sense when he bothered to tell her. Of course, then she DID begin to research, which included coming here. To find fuckwits who have the reading comprehension of a twelve year old conspiracy theorist failing to notice that so he can tell her she should have noticed before he said something.

Yes, and that is a deceptive, so counts against him in my book, although not everyone is confident in their alternative sexuality - i.e., his intentions may still be honest, but now he's pushing her faster than she wants to go - I mean, it doesn't appear to be a hard limit with her, even after a terrible experience, so I don't think she's being a "pussy" about it, which is to her credit, she just wants to feel like she's on solid ground.

_____________________________

Walking nightmare...

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/24/2013 8:10:47 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: master4bornslv
Clearly this sub/slave is in the wrong, and should comply with what is'e Master has told it that He wants!

You find that clear do you? Once again I'm going to lean on some advice from a Gorean guy for this one.

If a slave finds him or her self in a situation that he or she finds untenable then they should do what slaves throughout history have done -- flee if they are able.

That neatly gets out of right & wrong and turns it into ability, personal responsibility, and choice.

For the record, I find your "M/s by agreement" model to be about as mamby pamby as you can get. It's the fiction of actual dominance and submission. Not that my way is any sort of one true way either but your opinions are your own and not necessarily as "clear" and universal as you seem to think. I'm more inclined to look at the master in question and say, "Well, if this is what you want your slave to do then make her do it. If you can't then you're clearly not her master so quit strutting around."


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to master4bornslv)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/24/2013 8:26:44 AM   
descrite


Posts: 459
Joined: 5/14/2012
Status: offline
quote:

then she DID begin to research, which included coming here.


Really? I thought she decided to engage in a BDSM relationship first, on her own, after only talking to him.

She came here after she was "in" the BDSM situation, when he brought up threesomes.

Should we parse her messages?



"He did not let me know what he was seeking or that he was a Dom before meeting him. He sort of dumped it all on me after I began feeling emotions for him. I decided I wanted to learn more about what he had experienced in his life, and liked what I saw. Therefore, I want to learn more. "

Okay...she came in unprepared...wants to know more...

"My Master and I have just begun our journey together. I am hoping to work up to being his collared slave, however I believe he wants other things. Master is older than me, and has never had a threesome. All I want to do is make him happy, no matter what it is... but I don't think this is something I can do for him.

I want nothing more than to make Master happy. When I told him I don't think I wanted it, he became upset with me. I have a lot of feelings for Master, but is there a way to have a romantic D/s relationship? Or should I just suck it up and make him happy?
I'm in a dilemma... "

Okay...she's been into BDSM for a little while...at least long enough to know the trappings of the practice: words like "Master" and "collared." Somewhere, somehow, she learned about it (ostensibly from him, as we'll see in the next entry).


"When all of these things were being discussed with him, I had no clue what 'limits' were or anything like that. so before you begin saying 'oh if it was a problem for you, you should have told him', I didn't even know where to begin at the time. "

Hmmm...primary source: the partner she's entering into it with. Yeah, the Mentor Dynamic is swell, and what 19 year-old doesn't want some older partner to step them through the paces...but there's the rub: you need external validation of that source. She entered negotiations without any information. Bad, bad idea. Especially when information is freely available.

If other posters stopped writing with one hand down their pants, they may realize that if this were an automotive forum, and she was describing the purchase of a 20 year-old car she had already bought, and was complaining that she didn't know any better before going to the lot because she's only 19, every participant would be slapping her upside the head.

You do the research before entering the transaction.

Here's how I've read the chronology of her relationship:

- She started dating him

- She fell for him

- He brought up BDSM

- She decided to go along with it, as a sub

- He brought up threesomes

- She got hesitant, and started doing research on BDSM now


OP, if I got the timeline wrong, please let me know.

I can see how readers might get confused, though-- she explained the history in reverse order of her posts. Makes understanding the situation tricky.



(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/24/2013 8:41:34 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

"Well, if this is what you want your slave to do then make her do it. If you can't then you're clearly not her master so quit strutting around."
Yes, I feel this way also, but I hesitate to say it like that, it makes it sound like a dare - I'd word it differently: "if you can't talk her into it and make it a positive experience all around then it's probably not a healthy relationship".

Or something to that effect - i.e., "make" would include force, and that is potentially crossing the consent line, i.e., unless she (or he) has given prior consent to the use of force, then chance increase dramatically that it's not going to be a positive experience for both which concerns me insofar as this may not be her last relationship - if she get's burned again, the chances of somebody (like me) talking her into it and having a mutually positive experience decrease accordingly.

So, if only for selfish reasons, turning people in bitter "refugees", for lack of a better term, in order to maintain you dominant self image is rather benighted and wasteful, if everyone adds value, then overall value increases, supply should increase since fewer people are going to just flat out run the other way when they see you coming.

If you go around destroying trust and or anything else other than situational inhibitions, and making it into an anti-social contest for your own gratification, then, while you may well be perceived as dominant, you're more like and ambulatory hard on, and I suspect that even if you're all that right now, eventually your own social circle will shrink to the point that force will be your only remaining option.

i.e., a lot of us in here are actually refugees from vanilla relationships, where we've been used and abused without even so much as an iota of gratitude or grudging respect for toughing it out.

One of the great advantages of BDSM to begin with, in my book, is that the whole vetting process is up front: you don't mind being tied up and beaten with a rubber hose, but you don't take it up the ass, etc., stuff you're only likely to discover incidentally in a vanilla relationship, possibly through a summons.

But that's what concerns me about this guy being deceptive about his proclivities: if all ends well, ok, it will be to his credit, if it's doesn't then it's just one more squalid tale of man's inhumanity to man, or woman.

< Message edited by xssve -- 2/24/2013 8:52:42 AM >

_____________________________

Walking nightmare...

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/24/2013 8:56:38 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		One thing I do think you can glean from this thread, OP, is an idea of the kind of Dominant or Master you want. For example, someone like xssve or DarkSteven would be the kind of Dominant or Master who would be strong, firm, etc but would also clearly take your well being into account and would also, if it occurred, be man enough to actually admit being wrong. That is the kind of Sir I would want. One who is always right and who needs to put me down and act condescending in order to prove how "domly" he is would not appeal to me. That is one of the things I like about the forum side....if you read enough of people's posts you can get a sense of their character.

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/24/2013 9:08:58 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Why thank you Cordelia, it's gratifying to be appreciated, with the Shades thing, and even before that, noob percentages are high, and there's always going to be some who think calling it BDSM is an excuse for acting like and abusive asshole with no consequences.

It might seem mamby pamby to some, but one may consent to, even eagerly embrace some pretty harrowing things, both physically and psychologically, that would get you arrested, or at least socially shunned in vanilla circumstances - the fact that you can engage in what might otherwise be termed patently pathological behaviors and still be considered a decent human being - even if it's just slapping her ass while she does dishes - is not not just some lame PC bullshit, it's also the justification for BDSM being taken off the DSM-IV list.

< Message edited by xssve -- 2/24/2013 9:14:32 AM >

_____________________________

Walking nightmare...

(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Master wants a threesome... - 2/24/2013 10:53:16 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub
That is the kind of Sir I would want.


Woo hoo! I'll expect you here Thursday.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 115
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