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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 9:55:57 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Sure, Coy and those who are truly anatomically of the wrong gender, are not going to be sexual predators in the restrooms of the gender opposite their anatomy.

Coy's a little kid so this seems like it should be a complete non-issue. Furthermore unisex bathrooms seen to work just fine.

I agree this shouldn't be an issue in this case. I've mentioned that a couple times.

quote:

That said being a "trans-woman" doesn't mean that the guy isn't sexually interested in women nor does it prevent them from being a predator towards women.

Good points. Thanks for the correction.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 11:01:30 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I agree this shouldn't be an issue in this case. I've mentioned that a couple times.

I'm agreeing with you, I apologize for not being more clear.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 11:18:55 AM

LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Are the stalls tail compatible?

I went looking for a South Park clip for you. The one where Gerald Brofloski was at the Pepsi Center asking where the dolphin accessible restrooms were located.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 11:41:34 AM

LizDeluxe

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ORIGINAL: njlauren
Some Irish Catholic shithead decided it was illegal and arrested her.

I fail to see how the cop's nationality and religion are relevant.

Pot, meet kettle.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 3:27:21 PM

OttersSwim

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A person's image of self is actually formed around age 4-6.

I have vivid memories of being in Kindergarten and wanting to do the things that the girls got to do and being told that I could not, of being age 7 with my sister at a house where she was baby sitting and playing with the two little girls and wearing an apron and having a tea party. I remember their father coming into the room when the parents got home and how he looked at me.

They are among my earliest memories because they are bad memories of being and feeling "different".

I have no trouble at all believing that Coy is experiencing gender dysphoria at such a young age, and I thank God that she has parents that are listening.

I was punished for trying to express my authentic self. I grew up in the world of "Hide", "Deny" and "Repress". It is no way to live as a child I can tell you.

As for the bathroom, I believe she should be able to use the bathroom of the gender she actually is - female. Gender isn't between your legs, it is in your head and your heart and your spirit.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 4:12:25 PM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
A person's image of self is actually formed around age 4-6.

I don't agree with that statement.
Whilst it may be true for some people it isn't true for everyone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
I have vivid memories of being in Kindergarten and wanting to do the things that the girls got to do and being told that I could not, of being age 7 with my sister at a house where she was baby sitting and playing with the two little girls and wearing an apron and having a tea party. I remember their father coming into the room when the parents got home and how he looked at me.

Both of my kids went through a gender-swap role period for several years.
But, like many people, after the experimental stage was worked through they reverted back to what they were born as.
If I had taken them to a shrink when they were going through that stage I daresay they would have both been declared "TG" when in fact they weren't at all.
When we talk about it now, they both think it's hilarious and they can remember that stage they both went through. Had I followed through with the TG theory as many on here are suggesting Coy should do, I would have some very mixed up kids now and it would have been wholly inappropriate for me to behave in that way at that time.
However, I just let them deal with it in their own way and let them decide for themselves when they felt like it. I think an open mind is far better than pushing one theory or another at such a tender age.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
They are among my earliest memories because they are bad memories of being and feeling "different".

That was down to the reaction of your parents.
Not all parents are as traditionally rigid in their approach to the subject.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
I have no trouble at all believing that Coy is experiencing gender dysphoria at such a young age, and I thank God that she has parents that are listening.

My personal opinion is that they are pushing rather than listening.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
I was punished for trying to express my authentic self. I grew up in the world of "Hide", "Deny" and "Repress". It is no way to live as a child I can tell you.

I agree. No child should be put into this situation.
But an open mind will let that child make up its own mind when it is mature enough.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
As for the bathroom, I believe she should be able to use the bathroom of the gender she actually is - female. Gender isn't between your legs, it is in your head and your heart and your spirit.

I don't agree with this bit.
Try taking this reasoning to an anthropologist.
They will look at the bone structure and where possible, extract some DNA and check the chromosomes.
That would show the person to be either male or female.
You are what your body and genetic material make you, not what you think you are.
If you are having gender issues, that is a psychological problem, not a physical one.

I'm not saying people should shun you for your thoughts and feelings - that is wrong IMHO.
But many at a very young age do not have sufficient cognitive abilities to make a proper and informed decision on their own until they are much older. And quite often, those earlier gender reversals are nothing more than a very inquisitive mind at work and they do revert back to what they were born as.
It is true that some will continue in the gender reversal and they can seek advice and reassignment surgery if they wish to take it further.
I also think it is wrong to push any child into one gender role or the other until they can decide for themselves at a later stage in life when they can do something about it.
I also apply that logic to religions as well.

Just my

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 5:16:06 PM

Powergamz1

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Jerry Springer?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I read this story a few days ago.I support Equality all the way.The one thing that I don't understand is how did a 4 year old know there was a surgrey out there to make him a girl?I can understand gender identity issues at a younger age but unless the kid overheard the parents talk about surgrey.Now my question is,what is the etihical age for people to have "surgrey"?I ask these questions with an open mind as I am just trying to understand this better?

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 5:19:25 PM

Powergamz1

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quote:

You are what your body and genetic material make you, not what you think you are.

Puhleeeze.

If you are going to parrot thoroughly discredited pseudo-science, please get it right... 'You are what the demons and evil spirits inside you make you'.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 5:41:51 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

A person's image of self is actually formed around age 4-6.

I have vivid memories of being in Kindergarten and wanting to do the things that the girls got to do and being told that I could not, of being age 7 with my sister at a house where she was baby sitting and playing with the two little girls and wearing an apron and having a tea party. I remember their father coming into the room when the parents got home and how he looked at me.

They are among my earliest memories because they are bad memories of being and feeling "different".

I have no trouble at all believing that Coy is experiencing gender dysphoria at such a young age, and I thank God that she has parents that are listening.

I was punished for trying to express my authentic self. I grew up in the world of "Hide", "Deny" and "Repress". It is no way to live as a child I can tell you.

As for the bathroom, I believe she should be able to use the bathroom of the gender she actually is - female. Gender isn't between your legs, it is in your head and your heart and your spirit.

When you were 4 did you have any knowledge of TG surgery? While I agree that it is great that the parents are so openminded I have to wonder if they are the ones putting ideas in the kids head. I honestly don't remember when I realized I was different from the other girls in my class. I would guess early elementary school. I also had no interest in dolls or dressing up or anything else that they did. I wasn't interested in boys like my sister although I did have a crush on Laurie Partridge. Had my parents reacted like Coy's have I may very well have grown up as a boy. I have to say I am really glad they didn't. When I got old enough to understand being homosexual I also understood that being different from the other girls didn't make me a boy. I hope when this girl grows up she will be happy with the decisions that have been made for her but I still think they are handling the situation wrong.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 8:45:08 PM

strawberryshake

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I have to disagree. I am transsexual and I knew that I was a girl up until when it became an issue(in school). My parents certainly didn't plant a seed, being that they do not, and have never agreed with my perspective...although they have come to accept me. I also doubt that her parents planted a "seed".

I can however understand that this can be hard to accept by someone not affected by it. There are no facts other than the fact that the affected person sincerely feels that they were born into the wrong body and seeks a sense of authenticity by living as the "correct gender".

I'm pretty sure being treated different will traumatize her more than the other children will be by learning to accept people who are different.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 9:22:50 PM

strawberryshake

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I read this story a few days ago.I support Equality all the way.The one thing that I don't understand is how did a 4 year old know there was a surgrey out there to make him a girl?I can understand gender identity issues at a younger age but unless the kid overheard the parents talk about surgrey.Now my question is,what is the etihical age for people to have "surgrey"?I ask these questions with an open mind as I am just trying to understand this better?

A 4 year old does not understand that there is a physical difference between males and females(of people in their age group) until they have been taught. They only recognize differences that they can percieve.....which while clothed....is only the difference between masculine and feminine clothing styles and colors.

If society did not have such rigid standards defining what is "male" and what is "female" then I'm sure noone would have a problem.

When I leared what a girl and a boy where, I knew that I was a girl. It was not a choice...I just knew.

To answer your questions.

Under the present U.S. law. A person cannot have sex reassignment surgery until the age of 18. I did not know that I needed surgery to be a girl. Society told me that I did.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 2/28/2013 10:41:17 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I went looking for a South Park clip for you. The one where Gerald Brofloski was at the Pepsi Center asking where the dolphin accessible restrooms were located.

I did not know this before today but apparently dolphin furries do exist so yeah we're going to need those.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 3/1/2013 5:21:46 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: strawberryshake

I have to disagree. I am transsexual and I knew that I was a girl up until when it became an issue(in school). My parents certainly didn't plant a seed, being that they do not, and have never agreed with my perspective...although they have come to accept me. I also doubt that her parents planted a "seed".

I can however understand that this can be hard to accept by someone not affected by it. There are no facts other than the fact that the affected person sincerely feels that they were born into the wrong body and seeks a sense of authenticity by living as the "correct gender".

I'm pretty sure being treated different will traumatize her more than the other children will be by learning to accept people who are different.

It isn't the idea that she thought she should be a girl that I am having a problem with, it's the statement that at age 4 she walked up to her parents and asked when she was going to go to the doctor to make her a girl. I just find it hard to believe that a kid that young would even know that the surgery existed unless someone had told her about it first.

Also I am not worried about how this will traumatize the other kids. More that it will make everyone in the school aware of the situation and bullying will result. The parents making this into a big media deal IMO are only making her more of a target.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 3/1/2013 5:24:11 AM

tweakabelle

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There appears to be some skepticism (not to mention a great deal of prejudice) about the phenomenon of transgender children. For any one interested there is an informative doco available:
http://www.smh.com.au/tv/Parenting/Transgender-Kids-2912720.html

Can I recommend this doco, especially to those who seem unconvinced that kids are very aware of their own identities? Life for adult transgenders is far from a bed of roses. Transgender children have enough obstacles and bigotry to deal with in their lives without extra complications being added by others, especially those largely motivated by their own gender insecurities and prejudices.

I find it particularly sad that some of us, who have mostly faced serious issues (largely caused by hate and ignorance) about resolving our own desires, are happy to dish out the same tired BS to others. Hate is acquired, learned and can be unlearned. You will feel a lot better rid of it. And if someone can't exorcise their own hate and prejudice, what right do they have to demand that others cease their hate and bigotry towards us?

Choosing to cling to ignorance and hate and then directing these prejudices and bigotries at children is simply inexcusable.

All children need love and need us to love them for what they are - children - whether they are transgendered or otherwise.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 3/1/2013 10:43:24 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
It seems that the same battle over which bathrooms transgender students can use has now surfaced in another state.

I don't get what why the school is wasting money on this, it looks to me like it's unwinnable for them. They have made the argument:

"However, I'm certain you can appreciate that, as Coy grows older and his male genitals develop along with the rest of his body, at least some parents and students are likely to become uncomfortable with his continued use of the girls' restroom."

But the existence of unisex bathrooms would seem to demonstrate that their argument is a non-issue. Add to that "Coy's passport and state-issued identification recognize her as female." and it seems like a slam dunk for this kids family.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 3/2/2013 1:27:55 AM

strawberryshake

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[/quote]

It isn't the idea that she thought she should be a girl that I am having a problem with, it's the statement that at age 4 she walked up to her parents and asked when she was going to go to the doctor to make her a girl. I just find it hard to believe that a kid that young would even know that the surgery existed unless someone had told her about it first.

Also I am not worried about how this will traumatize the other kids. More that it will make everyone in the school aware of the situation and bullying will result. The parents making this into a big media deal IMO are only making her more of a target.

[/quote]

We live in the age of information. Who can say how or why the child is aware of the surgical procedure. Maybe a family member brought it up in an argument about the child....and the child overheard it. Its stupid to debate how the child learned about the possibilities.

To force a change in society someone must be put or put themselfon the line. I am exposing myself to ridicule right now by explaining my point of view.
.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 3/2/2013 6:41:20 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: strawberryshake

We live in the age of information. Who can say how or why the child is aware of the surgical procedure. Maybe a family member brought it up in an argument about the child....and the child overheard it. Its stupid to debate how the child learned about the possibilities.

If that is how you feel then by all means ignore the posts that are debating this.

quote:

To force a change in society someone must be put or put themselfon the line. I am exposing myself to ridicule right now by explaining my point of view.
.

You are an adult who is fully aware of the dangers of putting yourself on the line. We are talking about a 6 year old who has no clue who's parents are putting her in the spot light. Do you seriously think that by letting everyone in the community know what is going on is going to help this child?

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 3/2/2013 10:49:34 AM

SthrnCom4t

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
You are an adult who is fully aware of the dangers of putting yourself on the line. We are talking about a 6 year old who has no clue who's parents are putting her in the spot light. Do you seriously think that by letting everyone in the community know what is going on is going to help this child?

I was thinking about this on my drive to work yesterday. I don't have kids, but got a blip on the radio. What to do in this situation? My first thought was move to a different city and enroll my child as a girl. Figure out within the privacy of the family and give the child time to 'be' who she feels she is without a massive societal media fest.' Really, she's 6. Six year olds are 'older and wiser' than when I was 6 just because they have access to more information. If the parents don't listen, they aren't supportive, if they do listen, they are pushing. I think being a parent is probably one of the hardest jobs in the world because of the lasting influence your own personal views have in the shaping of another's world.

Unless kids are playing with each other's genitals in the restroom (yeah it happens, but that's not the norm) then where is the harm in letting her use the girls restroom? If there is inappropriate behavior, deal with that issue if it happens. Seriously! We use public restrooms when we go to the zoo, or a restaurant...we don't know the other people there. Most of the time we don't talk to them and we certainly don't look at or touch their privates. If people would spend as much time seeking their own self enlightenment as they do criticizing the acts of others, we'd be a much more advanced society!

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 3/2/2013 12:18:16 PM

FatDomDaddy

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FR...

For the most part, the overwhelming majority of 6 to 18 year old girls and young women do NOT wish to share bathroom facilities with 6 to 18 year old boys and young men and neither do their parents and guardians.

This is a WOMEN'S right issue.

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RE: Transgender discrimination suit against CO schools - 3/2/2013 2:30:11 PM

calamitysandra

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I am pretty sure that at least prepubescent girls, unless teached otherwise, are rather indifferent to sharing a bathroom with boys.

Take a look at France. Gender neutral bathrooms are very much the norm. Not only when it comes to toilettes, but many camping grounds even have shared facilities with shower stalls.

< Message edited by calamitysandra -- 3/2/2013 2:33:01 PM >

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