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Single Payer for Dummies - 2/28/2013 5:31:01 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		How would it work? What are the pitfalls of using it?

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 2/28/2013 5:36:36 PM   
Powergamz1


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Status: offline 		I dont think that there would be any big advantages or disadvantages to praying just the one time. (And we don't say 'dummies' anymore).







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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 2/28/2013 5:45:23 PM   
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Status: offline 		Thank you, Emily Litella!

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 8:58:07 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
How would it work? What are the pitfalls of using it?

Where are you going with this Level? Anyone who actually wanted to know how it might work could look at any number of functional systems scattered across the globe. I live in Canada and it might work like that.

My experience is opponents usually fall behind the "that's different" defense.


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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 9:58:44 AM   
papassion


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With the government as the single payer, it would be a cluster fuck just like everything else the governmet runs. Can anyone give an example of an EFFICIENT program the government runs? Why would this be any different? The government has the magic touch. Everything it touches turns to shit!

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 10:13:43 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
With the government as the single payer, it would be a cluster fuck just like everything else the governmet runs. Can anyone give an example of an EFFICIENT program the government runs? Why would this be any different? The government has the magic touch. Everything it touches turns to shit!

Let's run with that idea. What is you're alternative. I can see only two.

Private Sector:
Given the utterly rampant inefficiency, greed, corruption, illegality, and other similar terms present in pretty much all sectors of American business nowadays you surely cannot think that's a good idea, right? Just to be clear, private sector is what we have now. As an American expat living in Canada I can absolutely tell you that you're getting screwed over.... badly. In point of fact, that's exactly what you'd expect. Consider the fact that "business" has exactly and only one motive... greed. Is "greed" really the sum total of how you want health care being handled?

Let them die in the streets:
So far, at least, I have found few conservatives who are willing to stand up and say yes, I'd be content to just let people die in the streets of they are not fast enough, dangerous enough, capable enough, or whatever else to fend for themselves. Usually what I get is the rather disingenuous argument that "local charity" should solve these problems. I'm routinely astonished at how some high IQ people could say such a stupid thing without laughing at themselves.

So assuming I go with you're statement that government is wildly inefficient (and I'd really like to see your documentation on that)... what is your plan?


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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 10:16:50 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


With the government as the single payer, it would be a cluster fuck just like everything else the governmet runs. Can anyone give an example of an EFFICIENT program the government runs? Why would this be any different? The government has the magic touch. Everything it touches turns to shit!


Taxation, war, corporate capitulation..........just to name a few.

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 11:22:45 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
How would it work? What are the pitfalls of using it?

Where are you going with this Level? Anyone who actually wanted to know how it might work could look at any number of functional systems scattered across the globe. I live in Canada and it might work like that.

My experience is opponents usually fall behind the "that's different" defense.



Hey Jeff. I am reading an article in Time about healthcare, and they seem to make a decent argument for it, but don't go into great specifics of how single-payer works; I've heard a number of people (on another site) advocating it, and I'd like to hear the thoughts of some of the folks here. Your comment, as an American now in Canada, that sort of thing, you're seeing it first hand.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 12:14:59 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		"My" plan is a simple one that I am not sure I thought of on my own (why I put the "My") in quotation marks.

It's a fairly simple plan and could be easily implemented.

People looking to become doctors who are unable to meet financial requirements, could go to Medical school on the government's dime if they agreed to serve wherever the government sends them for 5-6 years, afterwards (Part of this could include their residency which I believe is a minimum of 1 year). They practice medicine on anyone and everyone (kind of like what the original Hypocratic oath intended) until their term of service is complete.

It would, essentially be like being an officer in the military. They'd be housed, fed, clothed and covered, medically. When their term of service is up, they're free to go practice medicine anywhere they like (and set their own prices).



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 12:33:38 PM   
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Status: offline 		Interesting, Michael. Doing that would theoritically provide free (to the patients) medical care, with a relatively steady supply of new docs?

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
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Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 12:49:39 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Yes. Free care it would be. The "military style" housing would reduce medical costs. We'd need tort reform but managable.

As for the new doctors; yes, I believe that there would almost need to be a "rotation" to keep attitudes positive and ideas fresh. People can become awfully jaded under certain circumstances and while most doctors do a good job of hiding it, I'm sure some of us have gone to a doctor to whom we were referred and said: "That guy isn't touching me", after we've met them.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 12:53:31 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

With the government as the single payer, it would be a cluster fuck just like everything else the governmet runs. Can anyone give an example of an EFFICIENT program the government runs? Why would this be any different? The government has the magic touch. Everything it touches turns to shit!


The VA. I've had privately run "managed care" before and the VA beats the hell out of it. I need hearing aids because I'm more than half deaf. The VA paid $717.00 for BOTH of my hearing aids. I asked a local hearing aids vendor how much they would cost when I learned what the make and model the VA was getting for me. They told me $2800 EACH.

I've seen anti-single payer people say, "If want to see what government run health care looks like, look at the VA."

To them I say, "Great! Bring it on!"

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 12:55:50 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
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Status: offline 		I just want to say I read this as Single prayer for dummies lol.

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 1:03:35 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

"My" plan is a simple one that I am not sure I thought of on my own (why I put the "My") in quotation marks.

It's a fairly simple plan and could be easily implemented.

People looking to become doctors who are unable to meet financial requirements, could go to Medical school on the government's dime if they agreed to serve wherever the government sends them for 5-6 years, afterwards (Part of this could include their residency which I believe is a minimum of 1 year). They practice medicine on anyone and everyone (kind of like what the original Hypocratic oath intended) until their term of service is complete.

It would, essentially be like being an officer in the military. They'd be housed, fed, clothed and covered, medically. When their term of service is up, they're free to go practice medicine anywhere they like (and set their own prices).



Peace and comfort,



Michael

This has been going on for years. Someone I knew when I lived in California in the 80s got a degree in psychology, and was assigned to some out of the way place in West Virginia, IIRC.

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 1:17:23 PM   
Arturas


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Status: offline 		http://www.tysknews.com/TyskWorks/heart_transplant_raises_question.htm

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 2:00:09 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		What the fuck does that horseshit asswipe have to do with single payer?

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 4:44:26 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

How would it work? What are the pitfalls of using it?


http://www.grahamazon.com/sp/how2.php

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what-is-single-payer

http://www.mdsinglepayer.org/single-payer/

Those are but a few to get you started.

However, you are also asking about the drawbacks.

Here is an article, should you wish to read it, that talks about the "Myths of Single-Payer Health Care".

http://www.freemarketcure.com/singlepayermyths.php

I have some issues with the stated "Myths" but will refrain for now.

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 5:00:33 PM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline
quote:

The VA. I've had privately run "managed care" before and the VA beats the hell out of it. I need hearing aids because I'm more than half deaf. The VA paid $717.00 for BOTH of my hearing aids. I asked a local hearing aids vendor how much they would cost when I learned what the make and model the VA was getting for me. They told me $2800 EACH.

I've seen anti-single payer people say, "If want to see what government run health care looks like, look at the VA."

To them I say, "Great! Bring it on!"


Here Here! My husband is disabled, and has been getting the best of care through the VA, far exceeding the private sector. The VA ran tests to determine his condition, where as his private doctor(s) were still trying to figure out if insurance would cover it, and how much. I have nothing but high praise for all they do at the VA, and only regret I never served and therefore am stuck with my current insurance.

Lisa

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 5:26:11 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

How would it work? What are the pitfalls of using it?


Hmmmmm?

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RE: Single Payer for Dummies - 3/1/2013 5:28:04 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

How would it work? What are the pitfalls of using it?


http://www.grahamazon.com/sp/how2.php

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what-is-single-payer

http://www.mdsinglepayer.org/single-payer/

Those are but a few to get you started.

However, you are also asking about the drawbacks.

Here is an article, should you wish to read it, that talks about the "Myths of Single-Payer Health Care".

http://www.freemarketcure.com/singlepayermyths.php

I have some issues with the stated "Myths" but will refrain for now.


Thank you, tazzy.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 20
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