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RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 7:55:03 AM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


Not what the graph shows total crimes by country US 11, 877,218, UK 6, 523,706. seems the US by the graph on your links is almost twice the total crime then the UK.

The US also has over 5x the population of the UK. This means the RATE, (crimes per unit population) in the UK is triple what it is in the US.
US 36 violent crimes/thousand population based on the population of 330M
UK 109 violent crimes/thousand population based on the population of 60M

That's 8th grade, or prior, math.

For someone who claims multiple advanced degrees and A's in statistics, you seem to not be able to do the simplest of calculations.

Your post your link, and that what it said, not what you claim. In fact I used the same link to support my statement and you thought it was wrong, now you are using it to support your claim???

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 3/6/2013 8:33:28 AM >

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 8:21:46 AM   
Nosathro


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From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		UNODC study taken in 2012, homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants

Country rate count

United Kingdom 1.2 722

United States 4.8 14,748


(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 9:30:47 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

UNODC study taken in 2012, homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants

Country rate count

United Kingdom 1.2 722

United States 4.8 14,748



I wasn't posting about homcide. I was posting about total violent crime. You're moving the goal posts.

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RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 9:42:52 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'Violent crime' is defined quite differently in each country.

Can I assume we all have a comparable notion of what "rape" means?

Rape Victims by Country

K.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 10:04:21 AM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'Violent crime' is defined quite differently in each country.

Can I assume we all have a comparable notion of what "rape" means?

Rape Victims by Country

K.

Actually different countries do have different notions on what rape is or at least how to deal with it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender

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RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 10:16:11 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Can I assume we all have a comparable notion of what "rape" means?

Actually different countries do have different notions on what rape is or at least how to deal with it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender

Point taken, but notions of rape in places like Somalia or, say, Saudi Arabia, are about as irrelevent as it gets when comparing crime rates in First World nations.

K.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 10:27:21 AM   
VideoAdminChi


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Please do not make other posters the topic.


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 10:42:03 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'Violent crime' is defined quite differently in each country.

Can I assume we all have a comparable notion of what "rape" means?

Rape Victims by Country

K.



I wish I knew more about statistics! For instance,

"The United States has the world's highest rape rates of all countries that publish such statistics. The U.S. rape rate is 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England and 20 times higher than Japan."

Still, most people would have asked the same question and provided stats on the subject of murder. Did you have trouble finding USA/UK murder figures, K?

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 3/6/2013 10:55:44 AM >

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RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 10:51:08 AM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		the measuring stick is and always has been and always has to be "forced trespass" (physical invasion), or what is more commonly known as violent crime

that is what guns are justifiably used to prevent











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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 10:58:57 AM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		I've never found out exactly what it is in the 2nd Amendment that makes it self-evident that adults should be armed whereas as kids shouldn't be. Does the 2nd Amendment only apply to adults - and if so, how are 'adults' defined?

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RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 11:04:47 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I wish I knew more about statistics! For instance,

Well one thing you should know is that to talk about "statistics" you first have to have some. There are absolutely no supporting citations for the claims on that page. No links. No footnotes. No references. Zip, nada, zero.

K.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 11:34:59 AM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		So, you still haven't been able to find any stats comparing US and UK murder rates then, K?

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 11:38:07 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've never found out exactly what it is in the 2nd Amendment that makes it self-evident that adults should be armed whereas as kids shouldn't be. Does the 2nd Amendment only apply to adults - and if so, how are 'adults' defined?


from that angle pretty much anyone able to testify in court and not in jail.

Generally that is 18 years old by most states regulations, but can vary between 14 and 21.

Originally came from england by prerogative, later charter off the top of my head, directly over here

founders only copied the present english law


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 11:59:22 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

as described in the Denver Post, is that city people can't see any use for guns except to kill people, while for rural Americans, guns are a tool just like a hammer or a wrench.
I'm not sure I would have phrased it quite this way as far as the city folks are concerned. I think that might be what the majority of the city folks see. They don't necessarily see their neighbor that takes his vacation in November so he can go deer hunting when he visits his family for Thanksgiving. They don't see the collector who enjoys pieces from different time frames because his Dad or Grandfather taught him about history growing up and those guns that were passed down to him were a part of that.

For us country folks, (and yes, I do still consider Myself to be country folk) have the disconnect because what happens with all of these murders just isn't our immediate thought in the use for a gun. Yeah, we understand that people use them against each other. It's a tool and that's one of the uses for that tool. It's just ingrained in us that, for that particular tool, that use is kind of farther down on the list. It's a different environment growing up so our first thoughts are hunting, shooting, collecting, and so on.



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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 12:01:34 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

So, you still haven't been able to find any stats comparing US and UK murder rates then, K?

Slick, but no cigar. Nobody denies that the murder rate in the U.S. is higher. The debate is about guns. In another thread on the topic, you said it's a simple problem with a simple solution, and questioned the intellectual capacity of anyone who can't see the connection. I would be more inclined to question yours.

Guess which year Parliament's confiscatory gun acts were passed.

England and Wales, Homicides 1995-2009

Year      Homicides      /100,000

2009      615            1.1
2008      657            1.2
2007      774            1.4
2006      758            1.3
2005      764            1.3
2004      868            1.5
2003      904            1.7
2002      1047           2.0
2001      891            1.7
2000      850            1.6
1999      766            1.5
1998      750            1.5
1997      739            1.4
1996      679            1.3
1995      745            1.5

Obviously the answer is 1997. Any idiot can see the connection, right?

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/6/2013 12:48:27 PM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 12:55:17 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
In another thread on the topic, you said it's a simple problem with a simple solution, and questioned the intellectual capacity of anyone who can't see the connection. I would be more inclined to question yours.


Which thread was this, K? I know you keep a readily-available library of my posts at your finger tips for just these occasions.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 1:58:27 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Which thread was this, K? I know you keep a readily-available library of my posts at your finger tips for just these occasions.

Besides ignoring any data that contradicts the cherished opinions those who function on a higher intellectual plane than ordinary mortals, is your post also intended to imply that there was no such post?

K.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 2:04:57 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

as described in the Denver Post, is that city people can't see any use for guns except to kill people, while for rural Americans, guns are a tool just like a hammer or a wrench.
I'm not sure I would have phrased it quite this way as far as the city folks are concerned. I think that might be what the majority of the city folks see. They don't necessarily see their neighbor that takes his vacation in November so he can go deer hunting when he visits his family for Thanksgiving. They don't see the collector who enjoys pieces from different time frames because his Dad or Grandfather taught him about history growing up and those guns that were passed down to him were a part of that.

For us country folks, (and yes, I do still consider Myself to be country folk) have the disconnect because what happens with all of these murders just isn't our immediate thought in the use for a gun. Yeah, we understand that people use them against each other. It's a tool and that's one of the uses for that tool. It's just ingrained in us that, for that particular tool, that use is kind of farther down on the list. It's a different environment growing up so our first thoughts are hunting, shooting, collecting, and so on.






Interestingly its mostly all people connected to some form of the english monarchy who are making the biggest stink about guns.


Keep in mind that they had the same right to bear arms as we do, and today no longer have those rights.

Now that just seems sort of interesting to me.

Seems to me the worshiped flounders said something about this country would be destroyed from the inside like a cancer by subterfuge.

I suggest they are correct.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 2:08:52 PM   
mnottertail


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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Part of the problem with guns, - 3/6/2013 2:36:01 PM   
Real0ne


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_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 60
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