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RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 3:35:00 PM   
Furryboy


Posts: 4
Joined: 4/19/2012
Status: offline 		I always thought that people saying "submission is a gift" was in response to some doms assuming they can tell a sub they've just met what to do and generally be rude to them simply because he's dom and they're sub. Also it points out that the sub has agency, and isn't simply buckling due to weakness or being bullied into anything. Unfortunately while these things seem obvious, they do sometimes need to be pointed out to people.

< Message edited by Furryboy -- 3/6/2013 3:38:55 PM >

(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 3:45:15 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		Nah, it's because people like to be fluffy and over romanticize things.

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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 3:53:47 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bettywade
You people who get upset about the term "submission is a gift" get pissed because you know its the truth.You lousy doms should be lucky,any sane person would even want to submit to your sorry asses in the first place.

Believe it or not, a woman I dated months ago called me out of the blue last Friday and asked me to come over and spend the weekend with her. I thought for a while about this, and then declined, because I wasn't feeling it.

Hilariously enough, once I got to the point where I wasn't super hungry for sex, and I could take it or leave it when offered, women started offering it to me more. I feel like such a chick sometimes -- not even kidding -- it's easy to get laid, but not easy to make love. Classic single woman problem.

To be honest with you, I've usually seen "submission is a gift" used in a particular context: a woman with a string of bad relationships, where men have abused her kinda/sorta with her consent, is trying to improve her relationship quality, so she wants a man who treats her and her submission like something special and rare. I haven't seen emotionally healthy subs use it very often, and I haven't seen it used much by people in stable, long-term relationships.

I don't really care about the phrase myself, one way or the other. If someone I was interested in told me her submission was a gift, I would ask, "What do you mean by that?" and I would listen closely to her personal explanation, instead of pretending I knew what she meant by the cliche.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to bettywade)
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RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 3:54:20 PM   
Toysinbabeland


Posts: 1693
Joined: 3/4/2012
From: the other end of Cx's leash
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Furryboy

I always thought that people saying "submission is a gift" was in response to some doms assuming they can tell a sub they've just met what to do and generally be rude to them simply because he's dom and they're sub. Also it points out that the sub has agency, and isn't simply buckling due to weakness or being bullied into anything. Unfortunately while these things seem obvious, they do sometimes need to be pointed out to people.


no.
The audience receiving that kind of comment wouldn't benefit from a notion like that....
It's a pedestal issue.
Submission IS however, a choice.

(in reply to Furryboy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 4:13:18 PM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bettywade

Why don't you self-righteous hypocrites shut the hell up of what your narrow views of submission is a gift.Unless your a real sub yourself,how the hell do you know what submission is?Just spewing your 2 cents which isn't worth 1 cent.

You people who get upset about the term "submission is a gift" get pissed because you know its the truth.You lousy doms should be lucky,any sane person would even want to submit to your sorry asses in the first place.


And what about the subs that find the whole "submission is a gift" thing silly? I'm very much a real sub engaged in a real 24/7 dynamic, have been for years, and I know that submission isn't any more of a "gift" than dominance. They're just two personality/relationship types that ideally work together to form a solid dynamic.

(in reply to bettywade)
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RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 4:21:56 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: bettywade

Why don't you self-righteous hypocrites shut the hell up of what your narrow views of submission is a gift.Unless your a real sub yourself,how the hell do you know what submission is?Just spewing your 2 cents which isn't worth 1 cent.

You people who get upset about the term "submission is a gift" get pissed because you know its the truth.You lousy doms should be lucky,any sane person would even want to submit to your sorry asses in the first place.


And what about the subs that find the whole "submission is a gift" thing silly? I'm very much a real sub engaged in a real 24/7 dynamic, have been for years, and I know that submission isn't any more of a "gift" than dominance. They're just two personality/relationship types that ideally work together to form a solid dynamic.


Agreed. I've been in the same TPE D/s relationship for 13 years. I think the "gift" thing is just eye roll inducing. To the point where I think I may sprain an eye.




Part of my issue with the "gift" thing is that it implies what I call "The Happily Ever After" syndrome.

If you look at fairy tales, a lot of novels, and Hollywood love stories....they all stop at the wedding....and everyone magically lives happily ever after.

Relationships take effort. Some days they flat out take work. Neither side's contributions are regarded as being more important than the others.

Am I blessed that I found someone that fits with me so well? You betcha. But, neither of our contributions were handed over in a pretty box with a bow on top, cradled in tissue paper.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 3/6/2013 4:26:58 PM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 4:24:12 PM   
fallsdeep404


Posts: 4
Joined: 3/2/2013
Status: offline 		I have known my submissive tendencies and love of dominant women since I was a young boy.

A recent pivotal moment for me was last year, when I helped an older female friend (who I have a crush on). She needed tablecloths washed after a party she had organized. She was going to go to the laundromat but I told her I would do it. Now I'm not exactly the best at keeping up with my own piles of laundry, but I wanted to do this for her. I could only fit two tablecloths at a time in my machine because they were so big, and I ended up doing laundry until 3 AM. After they came out of the dryer, I folded them (and I suck at folding generally) nearly perfectly, and I felt really happy and proud.

I'm far from perfect, and there are things I am not into doing as a submissive, my limits. There a probably subs out there who are more submissive, but I don't worry about things like that. Just be with someone you trust, don't be afraid to ask questions, and if your Dom/Domme refuses to answer questions or be honest with you, that is a red flag. You are right, submission is a gift, and so is dominance, because both parties are taking risks and opening up.

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 4:36:16 PM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
Status: offline 		I tend to think of seduction as an art, and submission as an act. (As in action, not as a role.)

OP, some of the things you have mentioned make me think that while you're looking to please your partner, it's more about arousing him than serving his desires and needs. If you want new ways to get his attention and interest, you can ask him directly as has been suggested; or, you can observe him and what he shows interest in, and emulate that. It could involve dressing up, but it could also involve poses (i.e. all fours), phrases (i.e. "Please may I [insert something you know he loves here]"), places (the living room, outdoors, the attic)... Think of what of you know about what he likes, and use it.

Have fun!

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There is nothing worse than being right. Instead of being right, then, try to be open. It is more difficult, and more rewarding.


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 4:40:46 PM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline 		There's an old expression "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig"
(I am in no way calling you a pig, by the way.)

While I commend you for wanting to embrace your femininity, playing dress up
may attract more men, but it isn't going to make you submissive.
Submission isn't going to be found in a tube of lipstick either, otherwise,
how do you explain male submission?

I say, get yourself dolled up simply for the sheer joy in being more feminine.
As for letting go? You'll be able to, once you find the right chemistry with the right man.
And pay close attention to what you said here. While it was a confusing post as a response,
you kind of appeared to have it all figure out in relation to being able to trust.
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
I didnt feel anyone was worthy. BIngo thats exactly what it was! Needed some serious PROOF.
I had very little trust.


< Message edited by poise -- 3/6/2013 4:41:46 PM >

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RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 5:29:35 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I'm a submissive personality. There was no specific time. This is just me and how I am on a daily basis with everyone. I hate to lead. He takes the lead. He is the one in authority. In the bedroom, he takes the lead because that's what he wants and likes and needs. I don't have to think about it. I don't have to tell him. I don't have it dawn on me one day. It's just a natural extension of who I am.


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RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 5:32:10 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

THanks, here I go with more crazy questions.

Dress, does dress help? I am a jeans girl LOVE THEM! I might wear a sexy top but its usually paired with jeans.
IM thinking maybe I should try some skirts? TO make me feel more feminine.


If you need to change your dress to make you feel more submissive.....imo, you're not submissive. You may be a bottom or just into kinky sex, not that there's anything wrong with either of those.

I wear jeans. I wear skirts. I wear pajamas. I wear nothing at all. None of those change how I feel. What I wear just depends on what I'm doing or where I'm going. I don't feel less or more submissive though because of my attire.

ETA: Why don't you ask your husband what he likes?





< Message edited by littlewonder -- 3/6/2013 5:34:46 PM >

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RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 6:27:57 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		OP, your trust issues are the problem. The way past them is to figure out why you're attracted to people who are bad for you to begin with. No need to demonize them, they would probably be great partners for someone else, just not you.

Learn to identify your past issues that cause you to go into a crowded room and unerringly pick the one person who will be the worst for you. Once you can pick healthy partners, you won't need to distrust them. Because the distrust is actually lack of trust in your own people skills.

Submission as a gift? I've used it, especially with newbies suffering from frenzy. It's a helpful shorthand to remind people they don't have to, and indeed shouldn't, agree to whatever the first guy spelling his screen name with a capital letter tells her to do. And anything that helps slow someone with frenzy down enough to think before they jump is a good thing imo.

The Man likes red lipstick. I forget about it usually. He likes red underwear, and a short red dress. Or black bra and panties with the red dress, and then white rope. Although I saw a picture on fet of someone tied in purple rope that looked awesome. But he's not a purple sort of guy alas.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 6:32:03 PM   
Casteele


Posts: 655
Joined: 12/10/2011
From: Near Sacramento, California, USA
Status: offline 		FR

Re: The Art of Submission - The snarky/smartarsed version..
Check your local community college--"Submission 101" should come somewhere after "Pottery, Advanced 301", if they group by arts, then alphabetically.

Re: Submission is a Gift -
Ask the lady behind the counter to gift wrap it, will ya? I'm getting tired of getting all these gifts in some plain old plastic bag with "Have a nice day!" printed on it. And damnit, quit trying to take it back! A gift given is a gift given!

Re: The content of the thread, overall -
I think it's just silly that people spend so much time thinking or talking about how to dominate/submit properly, rather then just let it happen. It's like sitting on here talking "24/7" about just going out and living life--sure we can discuss the topic to great length, but at some point you need to stop talking about doing it, and Just Do It (no, Nike did not pay me to say that, though they should..) With that said..

IME, dominance and submission do not happen independently. Ever. You cannot "perfect the art of (insert dominance or submission here)" without considering the other side of the equation. When you "practice" submission, who or what are you submitting to? What inspires you? Try this: Stand in front of a mirror and look yourself square in the eye, and say "Yes Master" to yourself and really mean it. Perhaps some of you can do it, but I'd fall to the ground in the most un-domly fit of schoolgirl giggles..

I guess what I'm saying, is that if you just want to feel submissive within yourself, without a dominant inspiring you to submit to *his/her* will, then the only thing you have to submit to is your own desire to submit. So my advice is, to ask your desire to submit what would please it, but I suspect that would quickly become circular upon itself and drive you mad once you realize that by submitting to your own will, you're dominating yourself with you own will, therefore failing to submit, therefore you must try harder to submit, therefore...... ad infinitum. Same goes for the "art of dominance," but inverted.

Ultimately, it's like trying to fight in a battle in which you are already declared to be the losing side. What's the point? All you're going to do is convince yourself that you'll never "feel submissive". Better to just keep an open mind about it, and maybe you'll someday meet someone who brings out your submissive side, inspiring you to submit by sheer force of their own personality--And yours will inspire them to dominate you. Having been there myself (on the dominant side), it's incredible, and IMO there is no "art" to it in the sense that it just is; Completely natural to both sides.

(Hope I've made sense.. The whole issue is so circular in my head that I keep finding it hard to articulate my thoughts!)

(in reply to poise)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 7:57:28 PM   
theshytype


Posts: 1600
Status: offline 		I just am submissive, it's not something I have to practice or learn to do. Now, there are some exceptions. There have been a few individuals I have wanted to tie up and torture, but not in a pleasurable way. The less I respect or like a person, the further I move towards the other side of the spectrum.

As far as dressing up, I do it because it puts me in a better mood at times and feeds my confidence. Besides the fact I look nicer, he enjoys the energy I exude.

(in reply to Casteele)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 8:53:23 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		Are you are worried about being a true submissive? Or appearing to be one to your husband?

That in and of itself is a submissive act. One of the "tricks of the trade" as you put it is to put his desires ahead of your own.

As for dressing up? There are at least reasons to do that: one is to make yourself more pleasing. One is to make yourself feel more traditionally feminine (which is traditionally more submissive.) Either way you are acting submissively.

Here is the thing though: ask him. I like dresses, heels and lipstick on a woman. You may find that he just doesn't care. You may also find out that he wants you dressed as a clown or a gorilla suit (like that sick fuck mnottertail wants you too.)

Or as JeffBC and SomethingCatchy said: just submit. Just do what you are told. You can also ASK what he wants you to do. This question is something that everyone asks when they first get into BDSM. Everyone has all kinds of opinions and squishy emotional type issues. There is all this soul-searching because it goes against everything you've been taught by religion, the schools, the government, and your parents. The answer really is that simple.

If you actually want to feel submissive: when he tells you to do something, or forbids you from doing something - obey.

EDITED TO ADD: That was in response to the OP.

< Message edited by MalcolmNathaniel -- 3/6/2013 8:54:52 PM >

(in reply to theshytype)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 9:31:56 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Chatter, I started out sub so before I answer your question I have to ask you a few....

You said something in this thread that really bothers me because I have heard it from others. You want to know how to act out a role? I can tell the "tricks of the trade" when it comes to telling a man what he wants to hear but I think it is more important to ask you why you want to do that. I'm not suggesting you switch sides or anything of that nature but do you really think you are sub if you are viewing it as playing a part? Have you ever wondered if maybe it really isn't in your nature to be submissive? Others may see it differently but in my opinion there is a large leap between being submissive and just being into kinky, rough, etc. sex. To be very honest with you here if all you are asking is how to submit to a man in a bedroom....it is pretty easy. Just shut your yap and do whatever he tells you to do. And yes I do mean whatever he tells you to do. And while you are doing whatever horrid thing you never thought you would do in your life time....smile, grow puppy dog eyes, let tears flow, beg him to keep doing whatever he is doing and thank him while he is at it. And when he is done, and later in the day if he will speak to you.

About the lipstick and lace, overly girly stuff. If you want to know if that will get a man hot....well...it depends on the man. If you want to know what turns your guy on try asking him. Some men love ladies some love tomboys.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 9:41:22 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel
Or appearing to be one to your husband?


I doubt immensely that it's her husband that she's worried about.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to MalcolmNathaniel)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 10:04:58 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		To be honest, I just glanced at her profile. She said she was married so I made an assumption. I was trying to not pry too much.

If I am wrong, I am wrong. It's happened before. Once.

Or so I thought until the woman recanted her story in front of a South American death squad and a purchased judge.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: THe art of submission - 3/6/2013 10:43:21 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
I'll give you a few suggestions from my personal side that make me admire/enjoy a man's submission (or bottoming, if that's the case):

* Don't be dripping in self indulgence
I know you enjoy submissision/bottoming or serving or you would not be there. But if you are absolutely oozing in self indulgence it makes me feel like a prop. There's another person here. Try to keep that in mind. This is the only surefire way to make me cut "playtime" short and boot a play partner completely - subs who are spoiled by pro femdoms indulging them all the time often suffer from this self indulgence vibe.

* Don't come with a hidden agenda or be passive aggressive or try to manipulate
Make sure you did all your soul searching and got your laundry list, if it exists, out in the open well before play time, because any agenda or manipulation will irritate me. Especially if you try to be passive aggressive about it, try to "earn punishment" or "drop hints."

* Learn empathy and be intuitive
If a submissive isn't focused on me but is entirely in his own head and fantasies to some degree, or at least isn't sharing that real estate in his brain to some degree, he's not sharing the energy, effort and trying to understand what makes me tick. Give me the courtesy of trying to understand my sadistic motivation so you can better satisfy me; give me the respect to pay attention to what I am doing and why, and don't just be a blob of jello or receptacle of stimulation. It might be challenging to stay focused, but it takes two people to "tango."

* Don't be boring
If you don't entertain, arouse, excite, intrigue, stimulate me with your submission/surrender/suffering/sacrifice, then I won't be wanting more. You can be a crappy submissive/bottom just like you can be a crappy lover or boring in bed or a "bad lay." Don't be that guy. All it takes is being PRESENT - mentally and emotionally. Connect with me emotionally instead of just focusing on what I am doing TO you, that's all it takes to make it a two-person act instead of me giving you a handjob, so to speak.

Akasha

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(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: THe art of submission - 3/7/2013 12:19:04 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
Status: offline 		I always feel like an imposter responding to these posts...I have nowhere near the experience of most people here and I am trying to learn (feels like being a Padawan in a room full of Jedi knights...someone walks in & asks how to use a light saber. They don't want to be taught by me...they are seeking the knowledge of the masters ). Anyway, the one thing I share with you is that streak of dominance..

What I am trying to say is that it takes some effort. In my case, I was raised to BE dominant & have had to portray it for so long that I often have to step back & look at what I am doing or thinking. Submission is not second nature to me, not because I don't want it, but because of response conditioning. Sometimes, I have to stop myself from that immediate "get it yourself..you have 2 legs" response & step back...remember my ultimate goal, remember what I want to get out of this experience, & almost give myself permission to NOT fight. This is why it is really important to me to carefully select who I submit to.

IMO...for what it is worth...it is a symbiotic relationship...you need him & he needs you. Call it a gift, an art...whatever there must be one person who is fulfilled by the ACT of giving and one person who enjoys receiving...and the trick is, the giver needs to feel appreciated or valued in order to repeat the cycle.

Just my two cents.....

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 40
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