RE: Age appropriate chores

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LadyPact -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 3:57:21 PM)
My kids both started age appropriate chores from the time they were two. Stuff like picking up their own building blocks and such. Yep, you make a game of it, but you're really teaching them responsibility. It's not always a popular view, but My job as a parent is to raise a responsible human being. Personal responsibility first and contributing to the household when appropriate. On flushing the toilet, well, that's not generally a young boy's strong suit. He just sees making water as, pretty much....... Water. He's too old for the cheerio's thing at this point. (It teaches aim during toilet training as well as a visual aide as something that needs to be flushed away.) Unfortunately, I'm not much help on this one, as those of us who raised the child from that point have instilled habits from a younger age than your step son is now. You might find better assistance from those who are also step parents, foster parents, or child care workers.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 4:06:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lizi quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar He also doesn't make eye contact when talking to people. Staring at the ceiling, or off in the distance instead... something that drives me nuts cause it makes me feel like he's not listening. This can actually be a sign that there is something not quite right. He really should be tested by a professional. That's the sentence that got me thinking as well. It's something that worries me too, which is why I included it. I probably should have put it more nuanced though, it's not that he never looks people in the eyes... it's just that he prefers not to. We recently had a conversation why he asked me why he has to look people in the eyes, and I explained that it's rude not to, because what he basically comes across as saying is: "I don't care about what you're saying; you're not important enough to pay attention to" while making eye contact gives off a vibe of: "I respect you and am interested in what you have to say". I basically told him that in those terms, and he understood it perfectly... he has a very mature vocabulary, and rarely needs things significantly dumbed down for him in speech, which is another reason I don't think he's stupid or anything. After that conversation, you can tell that he's really trying hard to make eye contact (he really wants to be "good"), and usually/often succeeds in doing so when somebody else is talking to him now... but as soon as he starts talking himself and focussed on verbalizing what he wants to say he looks away or get this "glazed over" look in his eyes. Thanks for all the advice though everybody... this thread has convinced me to go with my gut feeling and push to have him tested and start the process sooner rather than later, seeing that it's almost guaranteed to provoke a court battle. I really don't think he's dumb... but at the same time there is just that certain "vibe" I get from him that something isn't quite as it ought to be.

lizi -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 4:11:48 PM)
I don't think your list is too long for his age as most of it is self-care. Generally I think of "chores" as what people do to pitch in for everyone, outside of what they need to so to take care of themselves. Think of cooking for the family as opposed to putting your own clothes in the hamper. I feel that the things on his list for self-care are appropriate for his age. I feel it's necessary at any age to have a few things that children do to contribute into the pool for everyone, and he has a couple of those things too...great. All in all I'd say you have a good mix for him. The testing thing...let me tell you where i'm coming from on that. I just finished a full time 6 week internship in the MD public school system working as a physical therapist assistant student. The population I worked with was all special needs children. I am not an expert, I did teach before this about 10 years ago with the average kids, all grades. I don't have any special education as it pertains to diagnosing or identifying learning problems. I do have education in some aspects of learning problems though as they pertain to physical/neurological issues. There are several things that you brought up in the OP that made me feel strongly that you need to have this boy tested. Fight the battle to have it done, if it says he is fine - wouldn't that be nice to know? Here in MD anytime you wish to have a child tested for learning problems, even if it is before they enter the school system, you may call your county and ask to have the testing done at no cost to yourself. In my line of work, we start working with any age child, infants even, before they enter the public school system, we do therapy with these children so that the children can advance developmentally. I have gone on home visits to do therapy with infants, I have worked in the classrooms doing therapy with school age up to 18 years. Get started in figuring out how to help your stepson reach his maximum potential, even if it is ruling something out. Please understand I am not saying there is anything wrong with the boy, I do feel though that if your husband has had concerns, and if his present school is having concerns, that the child should be tested. There may be things you can do for him, you would want to follow through on that. The sooner you can offer help, the better everyone fares, and the faster someone can catch up, then the farther they can come.

DesFIP -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 4:25:12 PM)
Have you had him tested? Because it appears to be non-hyperactive, Attention Deficit Behavior. If so, punishing him for having a brain chemistry malfunction is inappropriate. I would seriously think about testing. Once you know what's wrong, you can begin to treat and teach coping skills. If you don't know what the problem is, then you're shooting in the dark.

lizi -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 4:26:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar It's something that worries me too, which is why I included it. I probably should have put it more nuanced though, it's not that he never looks people in the eyes... it's just that he prefers not to. We recently had a conversation why he asked me why he has to look people in the eyes, and I explained that it's rude not to, because what he basically comes across as saying is: "I don't care about what you're saying; you're not important enough to pay attention to" while making eye contact gives off a vibe of: "I respect you and am interested in what you have to say". I basically told him that in those terms, and he understood it perfectly... he has a very mature vocabulary, and rarely needs things significantly dumbed down for him in speech, which is another reason I don't think he's stupid or anything. After that conversation, you can tell that he's really trying hard to make eye contact (he really wants to be "good"), and usually/often succeeds in doing so when somebody else is talking to him now... but as soon as he starts talking himself and focussed on verbalizing what he wants to say he looks away or get this "glazed over" look in his eyes. Thanks for all the advice though everybody... this thread has convinced me to go with my gut feeling and push to have him tested and start the process sooner rather than later, seeing that it's almost guaranteed to provoke a court battle. I really don't think he's dumb... but at the same time there is just that certain "vibe" I get from him that something isn't quite as it ought to be. Of course he isn't dumb, hugs, that would have triggered the two of you to be looking into things earlier. As it is, his intelligence is holding you off from exploring your suspicions. Honestly, all of us have something off, it's not a negative thing, it's just life. We all learn to adapt to our issues and make the most of what we can do. A small example, I have a huge problem with directions, I cannot for the life of me remember them or find my way. I use a GPS. It's an adaptation for something I cannot change. I'm not making light of things by using that example, just trying to offer a different way of looking at things. Think of it this way, if you had a broken arm, wouldn't you want a sling to keep it from hurting and getting in the way when you were going about your day? Knowing what you are dealing with can give you tools to work with, it's not necessarily that something is wrong with him. Why not give him a "sling" to help him work with his learning if that is what he needs? One of the main commonalities of learning/developmental problems in children is that they prefer not to make eye contact. They all kind of drift away when you look at them. The younger ones will actually cover their face with their hands, the older ones know it's not acceptable to blatantly be so antisocial, so they become quite proficient at remaining just out of your gaze with that glazed affect that you mentioned. I'm glad you're having a better feeling about having him tested. At the very least it will rule things out. If anything is off, you will get support through your educational system to help him. I've seen huge strides in kids when they get the support. Nowadays, the support offered by the schools is good and it's extensive. Take advantage of it. He'll gain things he can use for the rest of his life [:)]

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 5:02:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar So, I have 2 stephchildren (boy almost 5, girl 6.5) from my husband's previous marriage that are at our house half the time (in 6 week long blocks). Now I'm -to my own amazement- somewhat of a hard-ass parental figure. I expect stuff from them like chores, and responsibility, and self-discipline. Now with the girl, all of this goes great. She's very clearly above average in intelligence, way ahead in school and social development than her peers, and a little rule monger herself, which means I usually only need to explain the rule to her once, remind her once or twice, and she's just off with it like they're written in stone, harping on her dad and brother (and me) if we don't follow them. Her brother is totally different. He's a little dreamer, with his head in the clouds, and the only time he seems to be able to focus for longer than 5 seconds is when electronics (tv, video games, computer, iPods) are involved. Other than that, it doesn't seem to matter how many time you tell him something, or how you walk through it with him. He'll space out and wander off the second you turn your back. He doesn't seems to be intentionally disobedient, it's like he just can't remember how to be good. He also doesn't make eye contact when talking to people. Staring at the ceiling, or off in the distance instead... something that drives me nuts cause it makes me feel like he's not listening. Despite the fact that I work with him on pre-school activities everyday, he still can't remember how to hold a pen correctly (even though he's got a rubber "grip helper" thingy on). He seems bright, and asks the most amazing questions. Is very talkative, and quick to pick up on science, and biological facts (he's currently mostly fascinated by the concept of "death", internal organs, and the fazing of matter from solid-liquid-gas) so he doesn't come across to me like he's not smart enough, it's more like he just can't seem to hold a train of thought if it's not his "first favorite thing" to be thinking about at that moment. Chores are a nightmare with him, because I basically have to walk him through how to do something, and remind him of every tiny detail and step along the way every time he does a chore for literally months before he finally gets the hang of it enough to start doing it semi-independently. I don't mind teaching him... but these are all things his sister did with ease at this age, and she managed to pick up on how to do them after just being told 2-3 times. The boy takes more like 20-30 times. As far as his current chores go: - Getting dressed, undressed, putting clothing/pj's in the appropriate spot by himself - Tidy up his own room - Open curtains in morning, turn the lights and his nightlight off - Brush his own teeth, wash hands by himself - Get his own drinks, put the stepstool away after using it to get drinks - Set the table, clear the table - Unload the dishwasher - (Help me) sort the laundry, put clean clothes away after I fold/hang them - Put his shoes, coat, backpack away in the appropriate spots when coming home - Help me cook (measuring things, retrieving items) - General help with tidying up the house - Empty (small) trashcans - Keep the bathroom tidy, wipe down the counters when he spills something Some of these he can do quite independently and has for a while, even though it took me weeks to teach him how. Other ones are a complete hit and miss on whether he even attempts to do them. It's sometimes very surprising which ones he'll pick up on easily and which ones are just a failure to make progress on (he unloads the dishwasher no problem, even starting to load it by himself.... but he can't remember to flush a toilet when he's done, or open his curtains in the mornings and turn off lights). My husband is very worried he's drastically behind, and got a learning disability. I myself sometimes wonder if I'm simple being too hard on him, because I keep measuring him to what his sister was doing at this age, when I already know she's way ahead for her age. What do you guys think, and do you have any other ideas for age appropriate chores for a 4-5 year old? I've found none of my chores age appropriate and frankly, my place looks like shit.

angelikaJ -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 5:26:15 PM)
What does his physician think? Does he have a pediatrician and have you and husband brought up your concerns. I am asking because perhaps if his doctor (or his doctor and the school) think he should be tested then it might make it difficult (or superfluous) for bio-mom to say no.

breagha -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 5:48:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar We recently had a conversation why he asked me why he has to look people in the eyes, and I explained that it's rude not to, because what he basically comes across as saying is: "I don't care about what you're saying; you're not important enough to pay attention to" while making eye contact gives off a vibe of: "I respect you and am interested in what you have to say". After that conversation, you can tell that he's really trying hard to make eye contact (he really wants to be "good"), and usually/often succeeds in doing so when somebody else is talking to him now... but as soon as he starts talking himself and focussed on verbalizing what he wants to say he looks away or get this "glazed over" look in his eyes. i have always had a hard time looking people in the eyes. in fact at the age of 33 i seldom do it. it makes me feel awkward and uncomfortable. it isn't that i want to disrespect anyone, that i'm not interested in what people are saying, or that the person (people) i am speaking with aren't important enough... it just makes it harder for me to express myself properly. over the years i have learned a few 'tricks" though that have helped in situations where eye contact is more important ( like job interviews etc ). One is that i focus on the bridge of the person's nose... i'm told it gives the impression of eye contact while giving me the ability to speak properly without tripping over my words. i have been checked out by professionals. i have seen therapists. my former Master made a very huge effort to correct this ( it really only worked when he required direct eye contact )... and i still have this "problem"

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 6:43:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ What does his physician think? Does he have a pediatrician and have you and husband brought up your concerns. I am asking because perhaps if his doctor (or his doctor and the school) think he should be tested then it might make it difficult (or superfluous) for bio-mom to say no. We haven't talked about it with his pediatrician. He's healthy as a bug, so he hasn't seen a doctor for nearly a year now, and the last time he went we didn't really have any concerns. It's a good idea to bring it up with his pediatrician, and he's due for a well-check in 2 months anyways.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 6:53:13 PM)
I have a question for the group of people who think that chores at this age aren't appropriate: What else am I supposed to do with him at this age, if not have him spend part of his time on chores? I mean, his sister is at school all day, and he only goes to school 7.5 hours a week. That means he's 30+ hours home alone with me during the week. Now, part of that time I do guided play with him, with heavy focus on pre-school learning skills, but that still leaves a significant portion of his time to fill. I don't want to sit him down for 8 hours a day and do mandatory school work at this age... and frankly, I really don't have the time (or the patience) to spend 30 hours a week playing with legos and dress up either. I have stuff I need to get done around here too. He does play on his own in his room sometimes, but he doesn't much like being alone for more than an hour or so, and I don't want to force him to spend hours alone in his room either. So what ends up happening is that he comes and hangs out with me for a significant portion of his "free" time, and that if I at that point not step in and engage him in whatever it is I'm doing at that time, he ends up getting extremely bored and starts acting out to get my attention. I can't really blame him for that... but at the same time... I'm not going to stop what I'm doing either to entertain a 4 year old all day long, so instead... he's made to do chores and help me. So going from the assumption that having him do chores at this age would be a bad idea.... what else am I supposed to be doing with him at those times?

littlewonder -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 7:03:44 PM)
When my daughter was four, she didn't have a lot of chores....basics...put her coat and shoes away and small things like that. She was too short to put the dishes in the sink or anything like that. When she wasn't in preschool, I spent time teaching her stuff, reading to her, playing with her, having friends over for her to play with or she went to their house. I would take her to the park to play or she would go outside where I would sit on the back porch and either work on my laptop or read a book or clean up the yard, work in the garden, do my college homework, etc....Then she would take a nap and I would be able to get stuff done inside. We'd eat dinner, stick her in the tub, read a book and then bedtime. Yeah, that was pretty much our entire day.

theshytype -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 7:13:47 PM)
FR - Another vote on having the boy checked for any possible learning disabilities. Just to rule anything out. Especially if he gets frustrated at school. Sounds like he wants to learn and follow the rules but is having difficulties. It could just be that everything is just a part of who he is. One of mine (a girl) sounds similar. She's just a little more difficult than her older sibling. I agree with the importance of chores. Mine started very simple chores at age 4/5. Mostly taking care of personal needs (baths, teeth, clothes...) and personal spaces, picking up after themselves including taking care of their dishes and keeping their bathroom tidy. We always slowly add to their list.

theRose4U -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/6/2013 7:55:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IamMistressM For flushing the toilet, treat it as a game. Congratulate and reward worked for me. I managed this over a one weekend :) Spencers gifts has a thing that starts cheering when you flush & the only way to shut it off is closing the lid. TA DA!!

LadyPact -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/7/2013 12:13:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: theRose4U Spencers gifts has a thing that starts cheering when you flush & the only way to shut it off is closing the lid. TA DA!! That sounds like an excellent suggestion! To Ishtar, I didn't want to suggest the idea of ADD or ADHD because, since clip has it, that particular thought jumps to My mind rather quickly and I didn't want to throw it out there unnecessarily. If the boy's well check is coming in two months anyway, maybe there doesn't have to be a fight over it. Will it be you or Mom that does the office visit? If it's you, it doesn't necessarily have to be a problem. Being a rather fair supporter of PBS' goals of educational tv for preschool children, if it helps any, all of those shows touch on chores and personal responsibility. Twenty dang years later and I can still hear that "clean up, clean up" tune from Barney that My kids would sing when picking up their toys.

Duskypearls -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/7/2013 12:24:58 AM)
Is it possible the boy has Asperger's Syndrome?

thezeppo -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/7/2013 1:22:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Duskypearls Is it possible the boy has Asperger's Syndrome? This was what I thought when I read the OP's posts, it certainly fits. The lack of eye contact as well as the not understanding the concept of having more time to play games if chores are finished quickly. I have worked with aspergers for a long while now and, like Lady Pact says about ADD, I probably have a tendency to diagnose it far too much. To the OP: Going back to the understanding concepts, one thing that you could do would be to try to explain using a different form. Rather than just explain what is going to happen verbally, you could write it down in short simple sentences, or even as a story board with meaningful pictures or other objects of reference. If he responds more to these kinds of communications it may suggest that he understands information in a different way. Another thing I would suggest is giving him one bit of information at a time verbally, and then pausing for about 7 seconds before giving him the next bit. If either of those things lead to furthering of his understanding then that could be a sign that he has ASC. I think going to a doctor is good advice no matter what, just to ease your concerns if nothing else.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/7/2013 2:32:49 AM)
Fast reply Have you tried a visual aid like a chore board? I don't mean a reward chart, so much as a chart where he moves a card from one column to the next (or flips it over, or crosses it off with a marker or something) when it's done so you can keep directing him to check his chart to remind himself what to do next. You could even colour code his tasks to different parts of the day - so blue for morning, with brushing teeth, opening the curtains etc that he needs to do before breakfast, then red for the middle of the day which he does before his sister gets home, then yellow for night time which he does before bed. I've seen them made with pictures stuck onto clothes pins that he moves from one side of the chart to the other. If you did that, he could even take the pin with him while he did the chore (clip it to his shirt cuff or something) so he has a visual reminder with him all the time of what he's in the middle of doing. Somewhere between these two: [image]http://media-cache-ec6.pinterest.com/550x/5a/c7/c0/5ac7c087afc1075f2c1741d7b57456a1.jpg[/image][image]http://media-cache-ec3.pinterest.com/550x/e3/5b/9f/e35b9faa251496a9cfefa961f5ec61e9.jpg[/image] Sorry if that's a really obvious suggestion! If you do want to make one, on this site you can make really easy mini flashcards on any topic and print them out: http://www.senteacher.org/Worksheet/6/PECS.xhtml I use it all the time for home made game cards and stuff. I don't think your chore list is too long since much of it is more self care/independence rather than additional tasks.

lizi -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/7/2013 4:28:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Duskypearls Is it possible the boy has Asperger's Syndrome? Asperger's was the first thing that popped into my head when reading the OP yesterday. I haven't observed the child, but if you gave me a list of things from this thread and asked what it might be - Asperger's is what I'd say. The not holding another's gaze, the way he lives in his own head regardless of what's going on except when something engages him, the ability to delve into very complex subjects for his age, and the school not feeling he's ready to move up (I suspect it's not the fact that he isn't grasping the information, but his social skills that are holding him back). Asperger's children are very adept with, and prefer being with adults. They can be very engaging. They may have very narrow interests and "zoom" in on those and the interests may change over time, or not. Their social skills are behind or lacking, they don't get how to judge others, or understand how to function socially- but even there they can be better at it with adults than their peers. Those are things from the top of my head from being with Aspie kids. I'm sure you could find more by doing a search and see if anything else fits. I think Asperger's fits more than ADD or ADHD because it seems as though the boy has concentration at times, and ADD/ADHD children don't generally have any issues with meeting other's eyes. You know, he may be just....himself. None of us have met him and we're just going by some words. I honestly think that looking into things will help though, no matter what the results are. I like the avenue of trying the pediatrician to give you a leg up on the testing procedure. A few suggestions: Break things down into simple commands and repeat often. Repetition and routine work extremely well for any child, but they are essential for special needs children. The chore board Athena suggested with pictures is what the teachers use here in pre-K and the special classrooms. The pictures have velcro, or as hers showed, a magnet to move them when they are finished. Sign language helps. I had no idea how helpful it was before these last 6 weeks. I picked up a few simple signs and reinforcing my words with the sign somehow circumvents the spoken language center in the brain for most of these children and helps them grasp immediately what you are asking or saying rather than just speaking it to them. I use the signs for work, stop, good, slow down, listen, stand up, sit down, wait, the most. Youtube any sign you want to see, that's how I learned them plus by watching the other teachers. Once again, I don't think your chores are inappropriate, even if he's got an issue. Most is self-care as was mentioned, we all do need to take care of ourselves. The kids with special needs pick up immediately on the fact that others will "help" them or make excuses for them, and manipulation, conscious or unconscious is rampant. Don't even start on that route of going easy on him. Let him do for himself, it's not mean, it's the best thing you can do for him. I've seen children make huge strides once people stopped enabling them, and go on to be very self-reliant and attend better to the world- we "do" for them much more than we should, standing back and letting them figure things out not only gives them tools to work with, it helps their self esteem.

Notsweet -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/7/2013 4:47:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IamMistressM He's not even 5 and he has all these chores? I've had 3 children and never expected that much from them at that age as they are still children. I taught them politeness, please and thank you, please may I leave the table, not to interrupt when an adult is talking , thank you for having me when they went to a friends house etc but hardly any chores apart from flushing the toilet and not leaving their clothes and toys all over the place lol It's well known that boys mature more slowly than girls so to expect him to do all of the tasks at such a young age might be an uphill battle. I'd consult the family Doctor and teachers though just in case, Please don't think I'm saying he has a learning disability but it is worth checking if you're both worried. :) What Mistress M said! You not only want him to do all of those chores, but without prompts, and you're using his sister to compare him? He's five! Whether or not he has a learning disability, I don't know, but the school is going to test him with a lean toward that, because they get more grant money if he's special needs. Meanwhile, lighten up on the expectations! I'm all for chores, but he's not only got a buttload of demands to meet, he's gotta do it IN TWO HOUSES WITH TWO SETS OF RULES! Wait a minute. HE'S FOUR??? And his parents have split up. Before we start diagnosing illnesses, why don't we consider that this kid's life is a goddam roller coaster so far? Maybe it's not HIM. Maybe it's the really stable adults he's with. None of us wants to spend all of our time entertaining four year olds, but here's a newsflash. IT'S CALLED PARENTING!

calamitysandra -> RE: Age appropriate chores (3/7/2013 4:57:23 AM)
I am another vote for having him checked by a competent childrens psychiatrist. Much of what you wrote reminds me strongly of my Middle Child, who has Aspergers syndrome. Now, having gotten that out of the way, I want to point out that he is a 5 year old boy. They are designed to drive us batty. As was pointed out, you can not compare his development with is sister. Even if he is completely neurotypical, at this age boys are a good step behind girls. Having to remind him, time and time again is just about par for the course at that age. And the toilet thing? I wager that a lot of mothers on here can commiserate with you. But I can assure you, that to shall pass. [;)] For now I would reduce his chores. Keep the ones that involve taking care of himself, and one of the household chores. Work, patiently, with him to get that down pat. If that has really taken hold, add a second one and so forth. While I do not object to the amount of chores, I think you need to introduce them slowly, making sure that he is able to work through the process without creating a circle of disappointment for the kid. Make sure he has plenty physical activities. Even if it is just running around the neighbourhood. It is very important for boys to be able to truly spent their energy. Send him outside to play, which would also help you with getting a breather during those long days with a preschooler in the house. I wish you good luck. It is challenging, but their are rewards too, promise. [;)]

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