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RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/11/2013 3:10:36 PM

FunCouple5280

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Joined: 10/30/2012
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Funny story...Love Brooklyn BTW.

I was on LI doing some Sandy relief work. I was very impressed with how civil things were. Nothing like the Katrina debacle. The NYPD should be commended for how well they handled things. The presence I saw was impressive and polite. I am sure someone out there disagrees, but they were on it. And Kudos to the New Yorkers in general, they handled it personally quite well.

As for Wayne....Well, he thought Heston was a gun pussy. He is a nut, what can I say.

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 101

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/11/2013 4:28:51 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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Maybe he should stop reading the Huffington Post.

Looting, Fights Plague South Brooklyn

K.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)

Post #: 102

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/11/2013 6:41:46 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

To me the thrust of your post is that you are for public safety and do not regard guns as sacrosanct, but the horse is well out of the barn on this issue. Its hard to argue with that point.

From my vantage point, Guns need to be regulated on the federal level. State to state measures seem pointless.

Criminalizing gun possession definitely has unintended consequences.

I would like to see liability attached to those who own guns and manufacture them -- push the public safety issue down, give people some pause before accumulating an arsenal, and encourage the distributors of arms to vet the purchasers. We need more individual and corporate responsibility for the gun business.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)

Post #: 103

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/11/2013 8:05:32 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

To me the thrust of your post is that you are for public safety and do not regard guns as sacrosanct, but the horse is well out of the barn on this issue. Its hard to argue with that point.

From my vantage point, Guns need to be regulated on the federal level. State to state measures seem pointless.

Criminalizing gun possession definitely has unintended consequences.

I would like to see liability attached to those who own guns and manufacture them -- push the public safety issue down, give people some pause before accumulating an arsenal, and encourage the distributors of arms to vet the purchasers. We need more individual and corporate responsibility for the gun business.

For starters define vet.
If I undertand correctly a person buys a gun someone else steals it so while we may not be able to catch the true criminal we should sue the burglary victim and the manufaturer.
Define arsenell it is thown around a lot.
Think about this a sane person with 100 guns is no threat, a nut with a gas can is a threat.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 3/11/2013 8:07:00 PM >

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 104

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 5:32:09 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

Kirata
In addition, despite the fact that Australia's restrictive gun laws were sold to the public on a wave of outrage over mass-shootings, there is no evidence that restrictive gun laws have any effect on the phenomenon:

Of course there is no evidence .... the reason for that? We haven't had any mass slaughters since stricter gun laws were introduced. So no data exists on which to base statistical comparisons or studies, or draw definitive conclusions.

However, as the stated reason for the 1996 restrictions on gun ownership was to prevent mass shootings, it can be said that, to date, the stricter laws have achieved the objective their designers hoped for. Whether the new gun laws are the sole reason, or one of many factors in preventing mass shootings is open to discussion in my view.

quote:

And not everyone [in Australia] is as pleased as you are. [with our gun laws here]

In accordance with the dictum 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' there is little or no public disquiet about these laws, bar some fringe groups of shooters who are more or less ignored by the mainstream. In the last election, the Shooters and Fishers Party attracted a whopping 3.6% of the popular vote in the State I live in. SOURCE As this figure suggests, it would be a profound misrepresentation to suggest there is any significant measure of public disquiet over our current gun laws or support for changing them.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/12/2013 5:40:43 AM >

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(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 105

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 2:31:24 PM

Rule

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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
We haven't had any mass slaughters since stricter gun laws were introduced.

And the mass slaughter that caused them to be introduced was likely planned by parties unknown with the alleged perp being framed for what the actual killer did.

Do you want a coconut? Throw a stone at a bunch of monkeys in a coconut tree and they will throw coconuts back.

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"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 106

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 3:29:53 PM

dcnovice

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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Over the last 20 years the U S murder rate has been cut in half with firearms ownership steadily increasing,

The New York Times recently had an interesting article on gun ownership in the U.S.

Share of Homes With Guns Shows 4-Decade Decline

The share of American households with guns has declined over the past four decades, a national survey shows, with some of the most surprising drops in the South and the Western mountain states, where guns are deeply embedded in the culture.

* * *

The household gun ownership rate has fallen from an average of 50 percent in the 1970s to 49 percent in the 1980s, 43 percent in the 1990s and 35 percent in the 2000s, according to the survey data, analyzed by The New York Times.

* * *

“There are all these claims that gun ownership is going through the roof,” said Daniel Webster, the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research. “But I suspect the increase in gun sales has been limited mostly to current gun owners. The most reputable surveys show a decline over time in the share of households with guns.”

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 107

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 3:41:48 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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From a gun owner's board:

________________________________________________________________

Re: Gun Ownership Rates Down.

by [removed] on Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:59 pm

If someone from that survey called & asked me if I owned any guns or recently purchased any guns, I would answer "No".

I wonder if many of those surveyed were thinking of the same answer as I...
________________________________________________________________

Re: Gun Ownership Rates Down.

by [removed] on Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:03 pm.

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!!!.
________________________________________________________________

K.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 108

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 3:47:08 PM

FunCouple5280

Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
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I doubt that would constitute a 15% decline in ownership rates across the country...

I have noticed a decline around me just from the standpoint of changing demographics. Fewer and fewer people around me care about huntingor shooting sport. And with the rise of the helicopter parent....guns must go. Granted not scientific, but just what I have observed in suburban CO. This state used to be very pro-gun, now not so much.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 109

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 3:54:11 PM

dcnovice

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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

I doubt that would constitute a 15% decline in ownership rates across the country...

That would take a lot of lying.

My humor's a bit skewed these days, but I also chuckled a bit that folks would rally around a response of, "Well, you know we're all liars."

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to FunCouple5280)

Post #: 110

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 4:00:24 PM

FunCouple5280

Posts: 559
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True LOL

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 111

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 4:37:07 PM

subrob1967

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Joined: 9/13/2004
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Hmmm lets see... The NYT calls and asks people if they own or bought any guns recently... Now perhaps it's just my Midwest mindset, or 15% decline can be attributed to the Californication of the Western states, but I seriously doubt that ANY gun owner would answer the NYT truthfully... I know I wouldn't, in fact I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident.

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(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 112

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 4:42:34 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I doubt that would constitute a 15% decline in ownership rates across the country...

That would take a lot of lying.

My humor's a bit skewed these days, but I also chuckled a bit that folks would rally around a response of, "Well, you know we're all liars."

And yet the survey flies in the face of the fact that gun sales are way up.
You also have to concider the source, the NYT are about as opened minded on this subject as the NRA

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 113

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 4:44:39 PM

deathtothepixies

Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Hmmm lets see... The NYT calls and asks people if they own or bought any guns recently... Now perhaps it's just my Midwest mindset, or 15% decline can be attributed to the Californication of the Western states, but I seriously doubt that ANY gun owner would answer the NYT truthfully... I know I wouldn't, in fact I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident.

no it's just your mindset, haven't you got an x box you should be playing?

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 114

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 4:53:31 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

I doubt that would constitute a 15% decline in ownership rates across the country...

I have noticed a decline around me just from the standpoint of changing demographics. Fewer and fewer people around me care about huntingor shooting sport. And with the rise of the helicopter parent....guns must go. Granted not scientific, but just what I have observed in suburban CO. This state used to be very pro-gun, now not so much.

I would simply hang up.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)

Post #: 115

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 4:55:53 PM

TricklessMagic

Posts: 248
Joined: 9/14/2009
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As to the drop in gun ownership as a percentage of households. I certainly believe the percentage has dropped. For a myriad of reasons. Chief among them being that 1990-2010 we had over 20 million people immigrate to America. The urban population has been growing. Urban populaces don't tend to have the same rate of gun ownership as rural and suburban populaces. Either from poverty or laws making it very difficult or virtually impossible to own a gun (i.e. New York City, Chicago, D.C.,) or just plain unpleasant. But the number of gun owners, the total number of gun owners, and guns in the public has grown dramatically. I know I sold off a half dozen privately purchased firearms here in Florida to private Florida buyers who were getting their first gun. The guns had sat in the back of my safe for a few years going unused and weren't collectible in my mind. I had bought them without a paper trail and I sold them without a paper trail, which I am legally allowed to do in Florida if I have owned the firearms for eighteen months or more. I bought one firearm in 2011 with a paper trail on it. I sold nearly all the guns I had bought with a paper trail on them that I had purchased within the last three years for quite a tidy profit, sold it over gunbroker and transferred through an FFL holder (background check for the buyer).

So percentage may be shrinking but the number is growing. Oh and to that "national survey" does anyone know if every state was surveyed. And yes if someone called me on the phone and asked if I owned a gun, I would tell them no because it is none of their business just like it is none of my doctor's business even though my kidney doctor and I belong to the same private range.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 116

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 5:15:36 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Hmmm lets see... The NYT calls and asks people if they own or bought any guns recently... Now perhaps it's just my Midwest mindset, or 15% decline can be attributed to the Californication of the Western states, but I seriously doubt that ANY gun owner would answer the NYT truthfully... I know I wouldn't, in fact I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident.

quote:

And yet the survey flies in the face of the fact that gun sales are way up.
You also have to concider the source, the NYT are about as opened minded on this subject as the NRA

I clearly shouldn't have expected folks to click and read. The NYT didn't conduct the survey. The data came from the General Social Survey, conducted every two years by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago. (I'm sure we'll soon hear that the GSS can't be trusted because it's conducted by researchers in Obama's adopted home town.)

The article also notes, "Gallup, which asks a similar question but has a different survey design, shows a higher ownership rate and a more moderate decrease."

Rob: I'm intrigued by your assertion that gun owners, often touted as honest, law-abiding folk, are actually all liars. Does that dive into dishonesty stem from fear that a survey taker plans to report them to Big Brother? Are gun owners really that paranoid? That would seem to underscore the importance of mental health safeguards for gun purchases.

Bama: Your suggestion to "consider the source" brought two questions to mind:

(a) What's your source for the claim that "gun sales are way up"?

(b) How do you think the NYT's purported bias affected the story? Are you saying they made up false results? Or do you think they just didn't understand the data? How do you think they got Gallup to play along in its own independent survey?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 117

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 5:19:07 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

And yes if someone called me on the phone and asked if I owned a gun, I would tell them no because it is none of their business just like it is none of my doctor's business even though my kidney doctor and I belong to the same private range.

Why the need to lie? Why not just decline to answer the question? Or say "It's none of your business"?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TricklessMagic)

Post #: 118

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 5:19:17 PM

Kirata

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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident.

You too?

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/12/2013 5:21:18 PM >

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 119

RE: gun control and tragedies - 3/12/2013 5:25:24 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

none of my doctor's business even though my kidney doctor and I belong to the same private range.

Damn, do the lies never stop?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/medicare.asp

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Post #: 120

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