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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/22/2013 7:17:35 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The point is, public humiliation of a teen causes bullying. Worse case scenerio, bullying leads to suicide and/or school shootings. Best case scenerio, it leaves long lasting emotional scars. Any punishment that causes a child or teenager to be bullied is abuse.


You have some proof of this other than your opinion? There is NOTHING in that article to indicate that the girl would have problems resulting from it. In fact, she apologized to her parents and she knows her behavior is out of line.

Your concept that there are punishments that will lead to abuse has absolutely nothing substantial to back it up.


I base my opinion on the following:

1. Stories of children/teens being bullied

2. Stories of suicides and shootings as a result of bullying

3. What went on when I was in school (since a rape victim, those in special ed, and anyone wearing generic clothes/shoes were bullied I have no doubt public humiliation like this would've resulted in years of bullying).

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/22/2013 7:22:24 PM   
littlewonder


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meh....I was bullied my entire school days, from 1st grade and on. I was called a dirty, poor girl, every name imaginable for the poorest scum of the town. Then throw in having a skin condition that leaves you looking like a mummy and when not wrapped, a burn victim.

I'm still alive and I'm not fucked up. Wow...amazing huh?


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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/22/2013 8:31:32 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The point is, public humiliation of a teen causes bullying. Worse case scenerio, bullying leads to suicide and/or school shootings. Best case scenerio, it leaves long lasting emotional scars. Any punishment that causes a child or teenager to be bullied is abuse.


You have some proof of this other than your opinion? There is NOTHING in that article to indicate that the girl would have problems resulting from it. In fact, she apologized to her parents and she knows her behavior is out of line.

Your concept that there are punishments that will lead to abuse has absolutely nothing substantial to back it up.


I base my opinion on the following:

1. Stories of children/teens being bullied

2. Stories of suicides and shootings as a result of bullying

3. What went on when I was in school (since a rape victim, those in special ed, and anyone wearing generic clothes/shoes were bullied I have no doubt public humiliation like this would've resulted in years of bullying).



Anecdotal evidence is not data. Millions of kids get bullied without turning to suicide or mass shootings.

Edited for improper parsing. I wasn't braining good.

< Message edited by MalcolmNathaniel -- 3/22/2013 8:32:50 PM >

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/22/2013 8:46:21 PM   
dementiaskank


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if we got these news from a Muslim country we would be ranting against their savagery

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/22/2013 9:26:27 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
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quote:

I base my opinion on the following:

1. Stories of children/teens being bullied

2. Stories of suicides and shootings as a result of bullying

3. What went on when I was in school (since a rape victim, those in special ed, and anyone wearing generic clothes/shoes were bullied I have no doubt public humiliation like this would've resulted in years of bullying).


And I base my data on personal experience of 13 years of public education in which I was bullied every day. Bullied for being over weight. Bullied for being shy. Bullied for being not quite as smart or pretty or accomplished or popular as my older sister, whom everybody in the school knew. Bullied for my last name, even (as if I had any choice in the matter).

Yes, I was depressed, but I have bipolar disorder which is a medical condition and unassociated with the bullying. Yes, I was suicidal in high school but that was because I was not diagnosed with bipolar disorder yet and therefore not yet in treatment for my medical condition.

I think this teenage girl will be fine. She knows her parents love her and want the best for her. And she'll probably tell any kids who try to bully her to go pound sand. She sounds like a well grounded child, in that she apologized for her behavior after her punishment and knows why she was punished in that manner. It also helps that her father stood with her the entire time. It would be much, much different if her parents had her standing there alone. They didn't. They made her suffer public humiliation, but supported her through it the entire time, showing their unconditional love and support.

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/22/2013 9:30:02 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dementiaskank

if we got these news from a Muslim country we would be ranting against their savagery


Nope. From the Muslim countries we get stories of girls being raped and being whipped as punishment for being raped.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/22/2013 9:51:32 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The point is, public humiliation of a teen causes bullying. Worse case scenerio, bullying leads to suicide and/or school shootings. Best case scenerio, it leaves long lasting emotional scars. Any punishment that causes a child or teenager to be bullied is abuse.


You have some proof of this other than your opinion? There is NOTHING in that article to indicate that the girl would have problems resulting from it. In fact, she apologized to her parents and she knows her behavior is out of line.

Your concept that there are punishments that will lead to abuse has absolutely nothing substantial to back it up.


I base my opinion on the following:

1. Stories of children/teens being bullied

2. Stories of suicides and shootings as a result of bullying

3. What went on when I was in school (since a rape victim, those in special ed, and anyone wearing generic clothes/shoes were bullied I have no doubt public humiliation like this would've resulted in years of bullying).


So you are assuming it will result in that. That's what I thought. I can't recall a single story of a child being bullied because of a punishment their parents used to discipline them.

Exactly how many children commit suicide or shoot up the school because they were bullied? I'm going to guess it isn't even 1%, and typically there are other factors going on that contribute to those things.

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 12:12:13 AM   
crazyml


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I totally support the parents in this situation.

According to the story they'd tried other things, and they'd all failed so fuck yeah, those parents deserve credit for being willing to go to this trouble to help their daughter.

Actually... I'll do further and argue that not doing something to correct her behaviour would have been child abuse.

Could they have tried other avenues? I've no doubt they could have, and should they have thought a little more about the possible consequences... sure but you know, they love their child and they made a call. I'm supporting them for that.

Would I have done this, no as it happens, but at the same time there's no fucking way I'd have tried therapy... fuck me... Sure if she was really struggling with her grief then I'd consider a counsellor, but if it's just because she's being a lazy-assed teen then fuck that!


I have two teen boys who are both awesome young men that make me proud on a regular basis. And it's not by fucking accident, they know what's expected of them and they know what the consequences will be if they don't meet those expectations. If I felt that one of them would benefit from being made to hold a sign on an intersection, I'd move heaven and earth to make it happen.

And I'm afraid this...


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The point is, public humiliation of a teen causes bullying. Worse case scenerio, bullying leads to suicide and/or school shootings. Best case scenerio, it leaves long lasting emotional scars. Any punishment that causes a child or teenager to be bullied is abuse.


I also disagree with. Firstly... as a parent I've always taught my boys that bullies bully only by permission. If they don't allow themselves to be bullied, then it'll stop. I know that's an over simplification, but I do believe dealing with bullies is a skill that can be taught.

Your worst case scenario is rather extreme, but hey - sure that's a worst case scenario. Your best case scenario is bullshit. The best case scenario is that they learn from the experience and become President of the USA.

As for "Any punishment that causes a child or teenager to be bullied is abuse." what a crock of bloody silly nonsense.

Making a generalisation like that is just absurd. I made my older boy mow the lawns of all our neighbours as an apology to them for something he'd done that caused them inconvenience - A couple of the school bullies saw him and started teasing him.

So now you're saying I'm the one guilty of child abuse? Don't be fucking silly. The bullying/teasing wasn't my fault... it was the fault of the bullies (and I would say their parents too as it happens). You don't address bullying by avoiding any situation where someone might be bullied, you address bullying by taking vigorous action with the bullies.





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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 4:34:44 AM   
DarkSteven


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Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I base my opinion on the following:

1. Stories of children/teens being bullied

2. Stories of suicides and shootings as a result of bullying

3. What went on when I was in school (since a rape victim, those in special ed, and anyone wearing generic clothes/shoes were bullied I have no doubt public humiliation like this would've resulted in years of bullying).



1. "I have no doubt public humiliation like this would've resulted in years of bullying". You've just postulated a link that may or may not exist.

2. The reason you're getting so much pushback here is that you evidently simply objected to the public nature of the punishment, and not to the punishment itself, but your original post didn't make that clear.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 4:35:29 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
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quote:

Firstly... as a parent I've always taught my boys that bullies bully only by permission. If they don't allow themselves to be bullied, then it'll stop. I know that's an over simplification, but I do believe dealing with bullies is a skill that can be taught.


QFT

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 5:25:19 AM   
Zonie63


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From: The Old Pueblo
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The article doesn't say what she actually did to deserve this particular punishment, just that "she became defiant."

Regardless of whatever problems may be going on in that family, I'm somewhat bemused that they would feel the need to involve the public.

This part of the article also struck me as interesting:

quote:

Now, however, the parents are feeling a little public humiliation of their own.

“I wasn’t even thinking about what the public was going to think,” her mom, Renee Nickell told the Northwest Florida Daily News.


So, they concoct a public punishment, yet didn't seem to know or care how it might impact on the public? Personally, I would be somewhat embarrassed if I came across a family with a teenager carrying a sign.

How does a teenager become "self-entitled" in the first place? This is something that always floored me about the so-called "tough love" approach, since it makes it seem like the kid was an angel for the first 12 years, and then suddenly she wakes up one morning and turns into a monster? I'm not buying it. Something else seems wrong with this picture.

I was a bit of a defiant kid at that age, so maybe this story hits close to home for me.

This part of the article also struck me:

quote:

They didn't forbid her from attending activities at church, they said, because the activities were supposed to reinforce the Christian values they were struggling to instill in her. They didn't confiscate her electronics because neither she nor their two younger children, ages 2 and 6, have any, they said.


They also said that the idea for this punishment came from a Christian counselor. That's kind of a red flag in my eyes. I wonder if there's been some religious indoctrination in this family, with the child getting to an age of better understanding and resistance, and they view it as "she became defiant."

I can identify with some of that, but my religious indoctrination was somewhat different because my mother kept changing religions every year or two. It got a bit ridiculous, and from a child's viewpoint, it creates a great deal more internal confusion which is difficult to process at an early age.

I also can identify with going to "family counseling." It wasn't strictly a "Christian counselor," but I do recall feeling somewhat resentful that my parents found it necessary to bring in "outside help." Instead of just talking to me like a normal human being, they had to create far more drama than was really necessary. It also undermined their authority over me, since it made it look like they didn't know what they were doing and had to call in some sort of "expert" (who turned out to be equally clueless).

That's another thing about this situation, since the parents said "We just got to the point where we just didn't know what else to do." So, this is what they come up with, because they don't know what they're doing and couldn't think of anything else to do?

< Message edited by Zonie63 -- 3/23/2013 5:29:42 AM >

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 2:17:10 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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Yeah, that little quote stuck out to me, too. =p They put the kid in public for public judgment (I guess?) but weren't thinking about what the public would think? =p

They seem a bit silly.
The girl may have turned her behavior around, but she might also think her parents are silly.

Or, she might be totally reformed and on her way to a stand-up Christian life. Who knows.


The article doesn't mention whether or not she had any counseling for the grief; my guess is they had a church counselor, who just told her "he's in a better place, be happy" which is not a very effective bandaid.

I had a favorite aunt - the ONLY person in my family who I felt I could relate to at all. She died when I was 13, and it took me a long time to deal with it. My grades didn't suffer but I became a lot more withdrawn and had some other issues that came from it.
She lost her uncle 2 years ago - that's really not a very long time.



< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 3/23/2013 2:20:18 PM >


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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 3:06:45 PM   
calamitysandra


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I am not a fan of humiliation, especially public, as a tool to raise my children, so I can not agree with the way those parents choose to act.

However, I am also not willing to throw the book at them (nor at the teen either, btw).
There is really not enough information to come to an informed conclusion.
Maybe they where overreacting, maybe they truly felt there was no other way, I would need to know a lot more to consider judging either party in this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I also disagree with. Firstly... as a parent I've always taught my boys that bullies bully only by permission. If they don't allow themselves to be bullied, then it'll stop. I know that's an over simplification, but I do believe dealing with bullies is a skill that can be taught.




It is all your fault. You should not have allowed them to bully you.
Way to blame the victim.


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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 4:29:20 PM   
crazyml


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Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

I am not a fan of humiliation, especially public, as a tool to raise my children, so I can not agree with the way those parents choose to act.

However, I am also not willing to throw the book at them (nor at the teen either, btw).
There is really not enough information to come to an informed conclusion.
Maybe they where overreacting, maybe they truly felt there was no other way, I would need to know a lot more to consider judging either party in this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I also disagree with. Firstly... as a parent I've always taught my boys that bullies bully only by permission. If they don't allow themselves to be bullied, then it'll stop. I know that's an over simplification, but I do believe dealing with bullies is a skill that can be taught.




It is all your fault. You should not have allowed them to bully you.
Way to blame the victim.




Erm nope. If you're going to have a pop, please bother to read the entire fucking post.

You'll notice that later I say...


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
You don't address bullying by avoiding any situation where someone might be bullied, you address bullying by taking vigorous action with the bullies.


If you cannot understand the point I was making in the first bit that you quoted, I doubt I'll be able to explain it to you.

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 4:32:18 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

That's another thing about this situation, since the parents said "We just got to the point where we just didn't know what else to do." So, this is what they come up with, because they don't know what they're doing and couldn't think of anything else to do?


Yeah, sure. And I think I made the point in my comment that they could have tried other approaches. But you know... not everyone is as clever as you.

Not everyone has the same set of tools.

These parents were doing what they thought was going to help their child.

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 4:49:24 PM   
calamitysandra


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You are right, I actually did not see the last part of your reply. My only excuse is that it is nearing 1 in the night and it has been a long day. Sorry.

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 4:50:29 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

You are right, I actually did not see the last part of your reply. My only excuse is that it is nearing 1 in the night and it has been a long day. Sorry.


Well in that case, I'm sorry for being snippy with you. My excuse being that it's nearing midnight and it's been a long day, and I have less stamina than you.


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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 4:55:26 PM   
calamitysandra


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Eh, I would not bet on that less stamina part. Not today.

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 4:57:05 PM   
crazyml


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I was fumbling for an excuse for being snippy at just before midnight ;-)

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RE: grieving teen humiliated by parents - 3/23/2013 5:08:46 PM   
calamitysandra


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It's all good. Discussions about childraising are bound to be emotional.

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