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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: Baroana

Show me any self-described "religious" person, and I'll show you someone who has cherry picked their beliefs from whatever holy text they claim to believe in.

People who are religious believe in some concept of the Divine or God, not in a book. Approaching their texts in the way you describe constitutes exercising discernment. When done by people who believe first and foremost in a particular book, then it's called hypocricy. And failure to distinguish between the two is called something else.

K.

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
All three of the Abrahamic religions relegate women to an inferior status.

Bullshit. You want to discuss it with my female rabbi, go ahead, because I'm not going to ask her something that stupid. Or the female pararabbinic fellow at my congregation, or the female cantor.

Are women not segregated in orthodox services? Perhaps I have it wrong. Let me hear.

You're correct. Orthodox services are gender segregated. That said, there aren't that many. There are more Conservative congregations and far more Reform congregations than Orthodox.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Whatever view you may hold about the analogy, the principle remains valid - we shouldn't judge a billion and a half people on the basis of the statements/actions of a few of their number.

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
If you have some science to disprove anything I said, post a link to it.

If you have something unique about ME culture, that every other culture around the world has never experienced, document it.

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
nice strawman though. [8|]

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
If you have some science to disprove anything I said, post a link to it.

If you have something unique about ME culture, that every other culture around the world has never experienced, document it.

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
nice strawman though. [8|]

He just disproved something you said, the mischaracterization of his position. Don't double down on the strawman.

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
You haven't produced anything factual to support the notion that Islam uniquely causes anything that isn't old news in human history.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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hey Butch; there are decent muslims, but there is a significant segment of their world that needs a good kick in the ass to get them to evolve a bit more.

Such a profound insight! To think that millions of years of evolution played a part in formulating this odious bit of racist crap........

You only have to change one word in this post to see how evil it is. Try replacing "muslim' with any religion/race/sexual orientation of your choice and then using a stop watch, time how long it takes you to realise precisely how repulsive and ugly it is.

If it takes you more than 5 seconds, you need to consider remedial classes...... as a matter of urgency.

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
You haven't produced anything factual to support the notion that Islam uniquely causes anything that isn't old news in human history.

kinda surprised at yr combative attitude but i seem to recall you made tha claim so tha onus is on you ta prove islamic culture has nothing to do with tha thuggishness against women in tha islamic world. i just asked why ya thought there was no connection between cultural identity & tha manifest violence http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4409309

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Until enlightened Muslims stand up, stop, and condemn unequivocally the barbaric behavior of many in their religion they are all guilty on my view.

An Islamic Response to 'Muslim Street Patrols'

K.

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
I've backed up my claims with links to scientific research. What you keep pretending to not understand has been thoroughly explained, and is exhaustively documented. The burden isn't on the person dealing in reality and facts, the burden is on the person challenging reality... in this case, yourself. And you've failed to meeet that challenge.

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Additionally your fraudulent claims that I ever said any such things about Islamic culture are exactly that... fraud. You deliberately edited out the qualifying words I did use, and inserted not just absolute words I never used, but spin to the opposite conclusion, to create a falsehood.

Thus the 'combative' lie is all yours as well.

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If you have anything either correct or useful, I'll be sure to let you know.

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The number of women murdered in a year in Turkey shot up 1,400 percent between 2002 and 2009, according to data recently revealed by the country’s justice minister.
Some 66 women were murdered in Turkey in 2002, but the numbers have been steadily increasing since then, Justice Minister Sadullah Ergin said in response to a parliamentary question from Peace and Democracy Party, or BDP, Van Deputy Fatma Kurtalan.
Eighty-three women were murdered in 2003, 164 in 2004, 317 in 2005, 663 in 2006, 1,011 in 2007, 806 in 2008 and 953 during the first seven months of 2009, the last date for which data was available, according to Ergin.

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“From 2002 to July 2009, a total of 12,678 cases were opened because of violence and murders,” Ergin told Parliament. “Some 15,564 people were tried in those cases, and 6,736 were sentenced. In those cases, 1,869 people were acquitted and 794 people were given parole.”

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According to a government study titled “Research on Domestic Violence against Women in Turkey,” 41.9 percent of Turkish women are subjected to physical and sexual violence. Women at a “low-income level” are assaulted at a rate of 49.9 percent, while the number for higher-income women is still high, at 28.7 percent.
Some 55.8 percent of women who have no education or have not finished primary education are subjected to violence, while 27.2 percent of women with at least a high school diploma or higher are the victims, the study said.
Some 48.5 percent of women experience some form of violence but do not disclose their victimization, the study said, adding that women with a lower income (54.1 percent) were more likely to stay silent about being assaulted than women with more education (37.5 percent).
Some 23.4 percent of women have been forced by men to quit their jobs or have been prevented from working; in the lower-income category, this figure is 21.5 percent while it is 21.2 percent for those with higher incomes.
Altogether, 33.7 percent of women said they considered suicide as a solution to their problems. For those with less education, this number is 34.1 percent, while 37.6 of higher educated women have also considered taking their own lives.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The claim that 'Islamic cultures are more “thuggish” than other cultures in their treatment of women' is easily tested.

Indonesia is one of the world’s major Islamic States. The population is overwhelming Muslim except for one island, Bali, which is Hindu. If the claim is valid, then one would expect to observe significant differences in the treatment of women between Hindu Bali and the rest of Islamic Indonesia. One would expect to Balinese women enjoying a significantly higher social status and to be suffering significantly less violence than their Islamic counterparts.

I am unaware of any evidence to support this outcome. To the best of my knowledge, Balinese women don't enjoy any significant social advantages over their Islamic sisters in the rest of Indonesia, and I am unaware of any evidence that suggests that they suffer more male violence than women in the rest of Indonesia.

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To a significant degree, the striking variations in the practice and interpretation of Islam — in a much less austere form than that practiced in the Middle East — in various parts of Indonesia reflect its complex history. Introduced piecemeal by various traders and wandering mystics from India, Islam first gained a foothold between the twelfth and fifteenth centuries in coastal regions of Sumatra, northern Java, and Kalimantan. Islam probably came to these regions in the form of mystical Sufi tradition. Sufism easily gained local acceptance and became synthesized with local customs.

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ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Muslims will lie to you because they are allowed to lie to non believers. The so called moderate muslims will not tell you the truth. And that truth is that the whole world must become muslim according to the prophet Mohammed. There is no 2 ways about that. Just like they put a veil on their women, they will put a veil on the truth to make you believe they are moderate. Your muslim friends will never admit it. Forget about it.