RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 5:38:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
It would appear that from your "logical" perspective you also feel that made in the factory formula is superior to mother's milk.

Or, it's that these people think it's the right of the mother to decide whether to breastfeed or formula feed. And, superiority isn't the only thing checked when making this decision.

I hear that the hospital also wont let the mother shoot heroin while in the delivery room either. You seem to be making the case for ignorance.
Do you rallly feel that life threatning questions should be decided by those ignorant of the facts?

I'm not sure how you liken formula feeding to an illegal activity

Would you be happier if I said drinking beer?,


What part of "freedom of choice" are you not following?

quote:

quote:

so I don't see how your rebuttal has anything to do with my statement. Are you taking the position that formula-feeding instead of breastfeeding is life-threatening?

That question was answered quite clearly in post 9...Perhaps you should research a bit before you get both feet in your mouth.


Hell, my feet are too big to get into my mouth, and I'm not limber enough to get one in there anyway. [8D]

The polio outbreak is the basis for your claim that current formula feeding is life-threatening?!? Damn. I wish I had known that before switching the boys to formula. That sure would have made my wife's difficulties with breastfeeding insignificant. Odd how my Aunt who had been a maternity nurse for 30 years (at the time) didn't have any issues when we switched my son to formula, and didn't have any issues when the twins were started on formula right off the bat.



thompsonx -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 6:50:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
So you also think think mother's milk is inferior to formula.
It would also appear that you also wish to conflate the facts with "fear mongering" in an effort bolster your position.
Do you know what else that those "commie hospitals" force you to do?


So you think it's ok to be dishonest.



If you have a point make it.



thompsonx -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 6:52:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


But while in the hospital you will follow protocol prescribed by the hospital. If you have a problem with that then have your kid at home and deliver it yourself.


But... It's not hospital protocol. [>:]


If it is not hospital protocol what are you sniviling about.

It is a government dictate.

So is the speed limit in a school zone. What is your point?



thompsonx -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 7:03:25 AM)

quote:

What part of "freedom of choice" are you not following?


The same freedom of choice you have to drive 70 mph in an school zone full of kids.
We live in a society and we make laws to accomodate ourselves to that reallity.
Do you feel that the govt should make no laws?

quote:

The polio outbreak is the basis for your claim that current formula feeding is life-threatening?!? Damn. I wish I had known that before switching the boys to formula. That sure would have made my wife's difficulties with breastfeeding insignificant. Odd how my Aunt who had been a maternity nurse for 30 years (at the time) didn't have any issues when we switched my son to formula, and didn't have any issues when the twins were started on formula right off the bat.



How about you go back and read post 9 again and see if you can seperate the "historial note" from the facts presented.
Do you think it is the function of the hospital to promote the healthiest choices or to be the pimp for corporate amerika?
Look into who the fuck the washington times is and their goal. Your personal freedom to endanger your child is not being challanged in your home just in hospitals that you could sue.



calamitysandra -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 7:46:16 AM)

So, if a new mother does choose not to breastfeed, formula will still be available. She will have to ask a doctor or a nurse, though.

To be honest, I do not see this as a big deal. She is in a hospital, not at home. I would have expected she would have to ask to be brought the next bottle anyway instead of just walking into the kitchen to make some.

This might just be another instance of the pendulum coming back, and hitting us in the bottom in the process.
For a good deal of time, bottle feeding was promoted in hospitals. Formula was more or less pressed upon new mothers and babies were given the bottle without parental consent.
Instead of going for a sensible middle ground, this might be overshooting in the other direction.



FunCouple5280 -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 8:27:22 AM)

Don't you think Tommy, that treating formula like vicodin or oxy is beyond a little extreme? Sure it still remains ultimately the Mother's choice, but rather you are asking a hospital to take a legal product, shove it behind lock and key, and develop a bureaucratic procedure to access it. I thought the goal was keep healthcare cost manageable while provided a quality level of care. This creates cost, interferes with a woman's choices regarding child care and, above all, is waste of time and resources as well as a distraction

Bloom is acting like a narcissistic tyrant toddler. It is a pattern of behavior with him not an isolated incident.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 9:06:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

What part of "freedom of choice" are you not following?

The same freedom of choice you have to drive 70 mph in an school zone full of kids.
We live in a society and we make laws to accomodate ourselves to that reallity.
Do you feel that the govt should make no laws?
quote:

The polio outbreak is the basis for your claim that current formula feeding is life-threatening?!? Damn. I wish I had known that before switching the boys to formula. That sure would have made my wife's difficulties with breastfeeding insignificant. Odd how my Aunt who had been a maternity nurse for 30 years (at the time) didn't have any issues when we switched my son to formula, and didn't have any issues when the twins were started on formula right off the bat.

How about you go back and read post 9 again and see if you can seperate the "historial note" from the facts presented.
Do you think it is the function of the hospital to promote the healthiest choices or to be the pimp for corporate amerika?
Look into who the fuck the washington times is and their goal. Your personal freedom to endanger your child is not being challanged in your home just in hospitals that you could sue.


If it is the choice of the mother to formula feed, the hospital has not authority to change that. The infant is under the guardianship of the parent(s). The hospital is being used for a service. The child can not make the decision, so the guardian has the authority.

I would balk if the hospital forced new mothers to formulafeed, too. It's up to the mother, not the hospital.

If a person is drinking in a hospital, or driving 70 in a school zone, there is a risk of danger to others that the person making the decision doesn't have authority over. Breast milk v. formula isn't that great of a risk of danger to others, either. The infant lying next to the formulafed infant isn't in danger of death simply by the one kid getting formula.

Yes, a hospital can be sued of something goes wrong. I have no issue with that. But, if the thing that went wrong isn't the fault of the hospital, then, the lawsuit goes where?



Lynnxz -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 9:06:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx



How about you go back and read post 9 again and see if you can seperate the "historial note" from the facts presented.
Do you think it is the function of the hospital to promote the healthiest choices or to be the pimp for corporate amerika?
Look into who the fuck the washington times is and their goal. Your personal freedom to endanger your child is not being challanged in your home just in hospitals that you could sue.


If you really want to go there, it's also speculated that the polio epidemic was so severe in part thanks to better hygiene and sanitation practices, even among breastfed children. Better sanitation leads to less contamination, which leads to mothers without antibodies, and therefore- children at risk.




tazzygirl -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 9:10:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

What part of "freedom of choice" are you not following?

The same freedom of choice you have to drive 70 mph in an school zone full of kids.
We live in a society and we make laws to accomodate ourselves to that reallity.
Do you feel that the govt should make no laws?
quote:

The polio outbreak is the basis for your claim that current formula feeding is life-threatening?!? Damn. I wish I had known that before switching the boys to formula. That sure would have made my wife's difficulties with breastfeeding insignificant. Odd how my Aunt who had been a maternity nurse for 30 years (at the time) didn't have any issues when we switched my son to formula, and didn't have any issues when the twins were started on formula right off the bat.

How about you go back and read post 9 again and see if you can seperate the "historial note" from the facts presented.
Do you think it is the function of the hospital to promote the healthiest choices or to be the pimp for corporate amerika?
Look into who the fuck the washington times is and their goal. Your personal freedom to endanger your child is not being challanged in your home just in hospitals that you could sue.


If it is the choice of the mother to formula feed, the hospital has not authority to change that. The infant is under the guardianship of the parent(s). The hospital is being used for a service. The child can not make the decision, so the guardian has the authority.

I would balk if the hospital forced new mothers to formulafeed, too. It's up to the mother, not the hospital.

If a person is drinking in a hospital, or driving 70 in a school zone, there is a risk of danger to others that the person making the decision doesn't have authority over. Breast milk v. formula isn't that great of a risk of danger to others, either. The infant lying next to the formulafed infant isn't in danger of death simply by the one kid getting formula.

Yes, a hospital can be sued of something goes wrong. I have no issue with that. But, if the thing that went wrong isn't the fault of the hospital, then, the lawsuit goes where?



No one is being forced to do either.



tazzygirl -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 9:17:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Don't you think Tommy, that treating formula like vicodin or oxy is beyond a little extreme? Sure it still remains ultimately the Mother's choice, but rather you are asking a hospital to take a legal product, shove it behind lock and key, and develop a bureaucratic procedure to access it. I thought the goal was keep healthcare cost manageable while provided a quality level of care. This creates cost, interferes with a woman's choices regarding child care and, above all, is waste of time and resources as well as a distraction

Bloom is acting like a narcissistic tyrant toddler. It is a pattern of behavior with him not an isolated incident.


There are many things that are locked up that have nothing to do with medications. I have been in hospitals where oxygen tubing was under lock and key. I dont recall a newborn nursery that didnt have its formula under key or restricted access due to theft.

In this, I only see a push to offer breast feeding as a viable option. True, the push is a bit strong, but that push is on the staff and not the mothers.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 9:24:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
Don't you think Tommy, that treating formula like vicodin or oxy is beyond a little extreme? Sure it still remains ultimately the Mother's choice, but rather you are asking a hospital to take a legal product, shove it behind lock and key, and develop a bureaucratic procedure to access it. I thought the goal was keep healthcare cost manageable while provided a quality level of care. This creates cost, interferes with a woman's choices regarding child care and, above all, is waste of time and resources as well as a distraction
Bloom is acting like a narcissistic tyrant toddler. It is a pattern of behavior with him not an isolated incident.

There are many things that are locked up that have nothing to do with medications. I have been in hospitals where oxygen tubing was under lock and key. I dont recall a newborn nursery that didnt have its formula under key or restricted access due to theft.
In this, I only see a push to offer breast feeding as a viable option. True, the push is a bit strong, but that push is on the staff and not the mothers.


It's on the mother's too. And, making it more difficult for a mother to formula feed isn't necessarily prevention of formula feeding, but it does give the look of it. When my ex gave birth to our boys, we did have a lactation consultant come in both times and give us information, asked us questions, and was available to answer our questions. With the second pregnancy, it was planned to just start with formula. The staff asked. The lactation consultant asked. We told both and there wasn't any issue at all.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 9:27:29 AM)

I agree it likely is a hassle for the staff. But it also takes away from the patient/caregiver relationship. A nurse that constantly pushing breastfeeding on a new mother who has chosen to breastfeed, for me, would make me not want that nurse in my room, and would also make anything she said to me, suspect. Since she is pushing the breastfeeding agenda on me, what other agendas might she be pushing?

I don't have issues with formula being under lock and key. I do have an issue with a new mother needing a doctor to approve her decision.

This is a really hot button issue for me. I remember stories of women who were bullied by LaLeche people to keep trying, keep trying, when breastfeeding was not going as planned. They would regularly make women feel guilty about not breastfeeding. I remember more than one case where the woman kept trying (because of the idiots guilt tripping her), and her baby suffered malnutrition because the woman's milk hadn't come in.

I understand the party line that breastfeeding is best, however, a woman can't leave the hospital without having a bowel movement (at least when my son was born), so why can't there be some kind of test to determine if her breasts are producing milk? Yes, I know that she might not be fully producing by the time she leaves the hospital, but the baby goes for a well check up within a week, why not test again?



tazzygirl -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 9:31:15 AM)

quote:

It's on the mother's too. And, making it more difficult for a mother to formula feed isn't necessarily prevention of formula feeding, but it does give the look of it. When my ex gave birth to our boys, we did have a lactation consultant come in both times and give us information, asked us questions, and was available to answer our questions. With the second pregnancy, it was planned to just start with formula. The staff asked. The lactation consultant asked. We told both and there wasn't any issue at all.


Its as simple as the nurses asking, the lactation nurse being called to ask... Its no more of a hardship on the mother than before. The infant will not go hungry. Mom will have formula if she so desires. What it does is make the nurses think before automatically grabbing that formula bag.



tazzygirl -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 9:46:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I agree it likely is a hassle for the staff. But it also takes away from the patient/caregiver relationship. A nurse that constantly pushing breastfeeding on a new mother who has chosen to breastfeed, for me, would make me not want that nurse in my room, and would also make anything she said to me, suspect. Since she is pushing the breastfeeding agenda on me, what other agendas might she be pushing?

I don't have issues with formula being under lock and key. I do have an issue with a new mother needing a doctor to approve her decision.

This is a really hot button issue for me. I remember stories of women who were bullied by LaLeche people to keep trying, keep trying, when breastfeeding was not going as planned. They would regularly make women feel guilty about not breastfeeding. I remember more than one case where the woman kept trying (because of the idiots guilt tripping her), and her baby suffered malnutrition because the woman's milk hadn't come in.

I understand the party line that breastfeeding is best, however, a woman can't leave the hospital without having a bowel movement (at least when my son was born), so why can't there be some kind of test to determine if her breasts are producing milk? Yes, I know that she might not be fully producing by the time she leaves the hospital, but the baby goes for a well check up within a week, why not test again?


Constantly? I dont believe it would be a constant push. Typically once the baby starts formula, unless its for medical reasons, the formula will continue.

I am sorry about your friend's child. 10 years in the field and I have seen some malnourished children. And, yes LaLeche people can be push. But that push is typically balanced out with a care for the infant. Breastfeeding does have its benefits. I have seen infants come back from him as a result of failure to thrive for many reasons. Mostly jaundice, which can be caused by a lack of fluid.

But, regardless, I wouldnt view this as a push to force the moms' into something. More of a push for hospital employees to actually care enough to try to begin with. I have seen some very lazy nurses who will toss a bottle between the lips before even looking to see if mom is breast feeding or not. Nipple confusion can be a bitch.



FunCouple5280 -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 9:54:44 AM)

That's not the point. Why create the statutory hassle? Whether bloomy dictates or not, it is the accepted medical opinion that breast feeding is best. I believe it is endorsed by the AMA, the pediatricians group and by OBs. They are going to recommend that a women breast-feeds every time.

The hassel is because bloomy wants to force women to do it, it is his intent. He had to fall short of that because he knew that would have been immediately slapped down. So, he is doing the next best thing to forcing it. He is going to make it a difficult as possible. He has already dictated that shops can't even say they carry tobacco products anymore, and have to hide them from view.....How many poor immigrant owned bodega that depend on the revenue is he fucking over with that one? What's next, telling safeway they have to hide their formula? What Bull Shit.

It is totalitarian pettiness, plain and simple. If he cared, maybe he would crack open his wallet and buy breast pumps for women who can't afford them (good ones are uber expensive). He could also put in feeding stations around the city so women have some privacy from gawkers and don't have to sit in the bathroom. It is better to make it easier to breast feed than make it harder to formula feed.



BamaD -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 10:25:44 AM)

quote:

So is the speed limit in a school zone. What is your point?


How much deeper can the goverment go intruding into peoples private lives?
Tell them what position to concieve in?
But it's ok the government just wants tolook after us, kind of like a big brother.



WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 10:29:20 AM)

reckon bloomberg shouldnt even be in office coz he changed tha two term rule to three without putting it to tha voters. it let him run for this term. later the change was rejected by referendum.



BamaD -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 10:30:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx



How about you go back and read post 9 again and see if you can seperate the "historial note" from the facts presented.
Do you think it is the function of the hospital to promote the healthiest choices or to be the pimp for corporate amerika?
Look into who the fuck the washington times is and their goal. Your personal freedom to endanger your child is not being challanged in your home just in hospitals that you could sue.


If you really want to go there, it's also speculated that the polio epidemic was so severe in part thanks to better hygiene and sanitation practices, even among breastfed children. Better sanitation leads to less contamination, which leads to mothers without antibodies, and therefore- children at risk.



When I was in high school I heard it was due to lack of proper chloridation of public swimming pools.



tazzygirl -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 11:42:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

That's not the point. Why create the statutory hassle? Whether bloomy dictates or not, it is the accepted medical opinion that breast feeding is best. I believe it is endorsed by the AMA, the pediatricians group and by OBs. They are going to recommend that a women breast-feeds every time.

The hassel is because bloomy wants to force women to do it, it is his intent. He had to fall short of that because he knew that would have been immediately slapped down. So, he is doing the next best thing to forcing it. He is going to make it a difficult as possible. He has already dictated that shops can't even say they carry tobacco products anymore, and have to hide them from view.....How many poor immigrant owned bodega that depend on the revenue is he fucking over with that one? What's next, telling safeway they have to hide their formula? What Bull Shit.

It is totalitarian pettiness, plain and simple. If he cared, maybe he would crack open his wallet and buy breast pumps for women who can't afford them (good ones are uber expensive). He could also put in feeding stations around the city so women have some privacy from gawkers and don't have to sit in the bathroom. It is better to make it easier to breast feed than make it harder to formula feed.


We are discussing breastfeeding. Its not going to be harder. Gesh. You actually think so? They will have a check list of questions to ask. But its STILL the woman's choice. They will ask, she will say "bottle" and that will be the end. So, its locked up. I have been in hospitals where its locked up anyways.

This is all just a silly argument that got people upset with the notion that someone will force women to breast feed. Its not gonna happen.



FunCouple5280 -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 12:10:59 PM)

If that's what you tell yourself, sure. That just isn't how Bloomy functions. This may seem benign, but he will up the ante. Maybe in the way it is enforced etc. This whole bs isn't to prevent theft like the case you suggest (the hospital would do that on their own), or for public health or safety, it is the meddling whim of a madman. Do you think a woman should have to watch a video on life or answer a questionaire about non-medical issues to get an abortion? It may still be a choice, but if she has a right to do it, why should she have to tell you shit other than something medically relevant to the procedure?



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