RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do...

RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 2:56:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280 Are you arguing that a company cannot market their product then? dont strawman me please....

tazzygirl -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 3:00:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280 Are you arguing that a company cannot market their product then? Havent they done that with medications to physicians offices? I recall how we used to determine which baby got what formula.... strictly by sex.

FunCouple5280 -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 3:09:25 PM)
I am not. You are claiming the samples are part of the cost. Yet the samples are marketing....I didn't open this point, you did. What is cheaper, spending 2mil on a professional ad and then spending 100k/min on a national advertising campain, or coughing up some free product to you exact target demographic? I know people think of it as pushing crack, but really one way or another you have to make your product known to your consumer demographic. General consumer goods like that have a small portion of the cost associated with marketing as price is critical in purchasing decisions. Usually, the high marketing costs are associated with luxury goods and stuff like beer. Truth is the majority of people need formula (even if they are breast feeding as a suplement or an emergency item), as well as diapers etc. This is hardly out of line. We just opened 2 baby registries last month for our soon to be child. We got diapers, coupons, pacifiers, wipes, etc in the gift bags. Guess we should stop that too [8\|]

Lucylastic -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 3:29:28 PM)
LMAO yeah ok, keep on keepin on.yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn dont put words into my mouth, just to have a lil rant.. but just to add a dimension to this, beyond greedy corporations.. http://www.momsrising.org/blog/the-real-view-of-free-formula-samples-open-your-eyes/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-weissman/baby-formula_b_1424695.html

FunCouple5280 -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 4:00:10 PM)
Lol The momsrising article, is most concerned that those are more expensive than store brands....Well, duh... Yet you would probably complain when some spends too little on something else and puts another job in China lol. Can't have it both ways. The consumer will do what it does best, buy what it wants. Plus the article makes a double logical oops. One, it complains that by marketing the baby isn't necessarily getting the best. Two it says government standards regulate to a point that nearly all are identical, so it doesn't matter if you buy cheap formula. So, oops, one argument defeats the other. Not saying they have to give out samples. The hospital can choose not too. It is free-will. Banning them from giving the samples to the hospital is rediculous. The second is just complaining about marketing, evil corporations, they want to murder us all!!!! Again, the companies aren't allowed to direct market to the consumer at the hospital. The hospital could throw the stuff out, or not give it out. Sure it is better to breast feed, I haven't argued against that one bit. But, free formula is not the end of humanity. And I am sure the hospital would always give some kind of formula to a woman whos milk isn't coming in. The kid has got to eat.

tazzygirl -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 4:11:58 PM)
quote: The second is just complaining about marketing, evil corporations, they want to murder us all!!!! Again, the companies aren't allowed to direct market to the consumer at the hospital. The hospital could throw the stuff out, or not give it out. Sure it is better to breast feed, I haven't argued against that one bit. But, free formula is not the end of humanity. And I am sure the hospital would always give some kind of formula to a woman whos milk isn't coming in. The kid has got to eat. What part are you not understanding? You believe a hospital is going to let a new born starve? Im truly curious as to how you come to your conclusions.

FunCouple5280 -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 4:20:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What part are you not understanding? You believe a hospital is going to let a new born starve? Im truly curious as to how you come to your conclusions. Where do you possibly come to the conclusion that I think the hospital would starve a newborn?!?!?!?!?! I am stating that they will feed the baby if with whatever given the lack of mother's milk. You read what you want to read into it...

Lucylastic -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 4:26:46 PM)
yeah..... You read what you want to read into it... [8\|]

tazzygirl -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 4:30:18 PM)
No, I tend to read sarcasm really well. And your tone is that these new borns wont be cared for to YOUR standards. The problem is, you have no clue what the standards are. You have been so busy slamming Bloomberg that you havent stopped to actually listen to what you were being told. He is doing nothing more than what many hospitals I have worked Labor and Delivery and NewBorn Nursery have already done... and that was 10 years ago. Breastfed babies are given breastfeedings and sugar water, and hopefully not too much of the later. Without weight gain, they dont go home. Failure to thrive is a real possibility, especially if mom's milk doesnt come in... and it doesnt always come in before she goes home. So, if you want to bitch about the people who go to home's to teach and encourage breast feeding and fuck it up, I have no issue with that. As far as what the hospitals have agreed to do.... No one is in danger. No one is over worked. No one is taking on extra responsibilities.

FunCouple5280 -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 4:50:26 PM)
Now you are arguing for the sake of arguing trying to assume I have a standard for the hospital (I have only argued they be permitted to make whatever medical policy they see medically fit). I have never said the hospital has to do what I want it to. I have only advocated that someone else doesn't tell the hospital what to do in those situations. Again. I never said the hospital would starve a baby, and any assumption to that point is baseless.

tazzygirl -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/26/2013 4:56:29 PM)
Did you not read links? Did you not see how many hospitals signed on to do this?

thompsonx -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/28/2013 12:32:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280 Don't you think Tommy, If you would like your argument to be taken seriously why do you start with such a childish attack? quote: that treating formula like vicodin or oxy is beyond a little extreme? You are the only one who has made that characterization thus far. Why areyou trying to make the connection between opiats and formula? quote: Sure it still remains ultimately the Mother's choice, but rather you are asking a hospital to take a legal product, shove it behind lock and key, and develop a bureaucratic procedure to access it. I thought the goal was keep healthcare cost manageable while provided a quality level of care. This creates cost, interferes with a woman's choices regarding child care and, above all, is waste of time and resources as well as a distraction You have given no evidence to support the above. Would you agree that two of the rightful functions of the state is to protect the constitutant from force and fraud? The medical evidence that formula is insufficient to provide the necessary immunilogical requirements that mother's milk does is quite clear. To allow corporate amerika to perpetrate the fraud that the two items were equal would be a breach of the duty of the state. Your post seems very like some corporate shill whining about the nanny state when they cant butt fuck the ignorant.

thompsonx -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/28/2013 12:38:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: What part of "freedom of choice" are you not following? The same freedom of choice you have to drive 70 mph in an school zone full of kids. We live in a society and we make laws to accomodate ourselves to that reallity. Do you feel that the govt should make no laws? quote: The polio outbreak is the basis for your claim that current formula feeding is life-threatening?!? Damn. I wish I had known that before switching the boys to formula. That sure would have made my wife's difficulties with breastfeeding insignificant. Odd how my Aunt who had been a maternity nurse for 30 years (at the time) didn't have any issues when we switched my son to formula, and didn't have any issues when the twins were started on formula right off the bat. How about you go back and read post 9 again and see if you can seperate the "historial note" from the facts presented. Do you think it is the function of the hospital to promote the healthiest choices or to be the pimp for corporate amerika? Look into who the fuck the washington times is and their goal. Your personal freedom to endanger your child is not being challanged in your home just in hospitals that you could sue. If it is the choice of the mother to formula feed, the hospital has not authority to change that. Why are you making this non argument? No one is preventing the mother from feeding her child what she whats quote: The infant is under the guardianship of the parent(s). The hospital is being used for a service. The child can not make the decision, so the guardian has the authority. I would balk if the hospital forced new mothers to formulafeed, too. It's up to the mother, not the hospital. If a person is drinking in a hospital, or driving 70 in a school zone, there is a risk of danger to others that the person making the decision doesn't have authority over. Breast milk v. formula isn't that great of a risk of danger to others, either. The infant lying next to the formulafed infant isn't in danger of death simply by the one kid getting formula. Yes, a hospital can be sued of something goes wrong. I have no issue with that. But, if the thing that went wrong isn't the fault of the hospital, then, the lawsuit goes where? I have no clue what the fuck you are on about. No one is forcing the mother to do shit.

thompsonx -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/28/2013 12:42:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lynnxz quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx How about you go back and read post 9 again and see if you can seperate the "historial note" from the facts presented. Do you think it is the function of the hospital to promote the healthiest choices or to be the pimp for corporate amerika? Look into who the fuck the washington times is and their goal. Your personal freedom to endanger your child is not being challanged in your home just in hospitals that you could sue. If you really want to go there, it's also speculated that the polio epidemic was so severe in part thanks to better hygiene and sanitation practices, even among breastfed children. Better sanitation leads to less contamination, which leads to mothers without antibodies, and therefore- children at risk. How droll.

thompsonx -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/28/2013 12:51:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady I agree it likely is a hassle for the staff. But it also takes away from the patient/caregiver relationship. A nurse that constantly pushing breastfeeding on a new mother who has chosen to breastfeed, for me, would make me not want that nurse in my room, and would also make anything she said to me, suspect. Since she is pushing the breastfeeding agenda on me, what other agendas might she be pushing? I don't have issues with formula being under lock and key. I do have an issue with a new mother needing a doctor to approve her decision. Do I understand you correctly that you would have this woman make her decission based on some corporate shill selling a product and not allowing the doctor to give the woman the truth abou the medical differences between the two products? quote: This is a really hot button issue for me. I remember stories of women who were bullied by LaLeche people to keep trying, keep trying, when breastfeeding was not going as planned. They would regularly make women feel guilty about not breastfeeding. I remember more than one case where the woman kept trying (because of the idiots guilt tripping her), and her baby suffered malnutrition because the woman's milk hadn't come in. You are saying that the baby in this instance was deprived of all sustinance and only offered milk from an empty tit and as a result it suffered malnutrition???Perhaps in someone's home but in a real hospital your scenarion seems more than a little bullshit. quote: I understand the party line that breastfeeding is best, Party line????no it is a matter of medical fact. quote: however, a woman can't leave the hospital without having a bowel movement (at least when my son was born), so why can't there be some kind of test to determine if her breasts are producing milk? Yes, I know that she might not be fully producing by the time she leaves the hospital, but the baby goes for a well check up within a week, why not test again? ????

thompsonx -> RE: Bloomberg tells women what to do... (3/28/2013 12:55:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280 If that's what you tell yourself, sure. That just isn't how Bloomy functions. This may seem benign, but he will up the ante. Maybe in the way it is enforced etc. This whole bs isn't to prevent theft like the case you suggest (the hospital would do that on their own), or for public health or safety, it is the meddling whim of a madman. Do you think a woman should have to watch a video on life or answer a questionaire about non-medical issues to get an abortion? It may still be a choice, but if she has a right to do it, why should she have to tell you shit other than something medically relevant to the procedure? The facts are that mother's milk is superior to formula why do you deny that. That you do not like the polititian in question is quite clear but would you deny that there was air just because he said there was?

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