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[Poll]

Does being religious mean that you are:


More moral than the non-religious
  13% (8)
As moral as the non-religious
  36% (22)
Less moral than the non-religious
  18% (11)
chose none of the above as I refuse to voice an opinion yet still vote
  31% (19)


Total Votes : 60
(last vote on : 5/14/2014 8:05:37 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/6/2013 8:39:29 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline 		There is a lot of evidence that concepts like altruism and empathy are inate in human beings, that it was an evolutionary advantage to humans to have developed it. It doesn't mean it can't be overridden, but it does seem to exist. And no, you don't need religion to do good, that is an argument the religious types have been making for years, that religion is the bulwark between man acting nicely and being a bunch of vicious animals, and it isn't true. While religion does teach many things, may I point out that for example, in 19th century Britain, that the churches took up the mantra of Jeremy Benthalm, who said the poor were poor because they were lazy and indolent, and was responsible for the grim workhouses and such that Dickens wrote about, it was harsh, brutal treatment, yet the churches took that up, despite the fact that Christ talked about the poor being the blessed..whereas atheists and humanists often turned out to be major humanists, trying to help the poor and so forth. I guess the way I would put it is that history has shown that because a person is religious, it doesn't necessarily mean they act morally, and that because a person is not religious, tht they cannot act well.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/8/2013 7:46:48 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
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quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

I guess the way I would put it is that history has shown that because a person is religious, it doesn't necessarily mean they act morally, and that because a person is not religious, tht they cannot act well.


I think if we could get people to agree with your above statement, there would be a lot more productive dialogue that could be had.

I do often feel that people who are religious believe that they have a monopoly on moral, ethical behavior. I think a lot can be gained by everyone stepping back from religion and trying to move towards assessing peoples' actual behavior. The world would be a better place if instead of focusing on whether people believe or don't believe, and whether people believe the same god as one does, if people just focused on how people behave. Good behavior is readily identifiable regardless of what the person's background is. And good behavior is ultimately an individua determination. Only an individual's morality can be assessed. There is no such thing as the morality of an entire group. Just because I share ethnicity/race/religion/gender with other people doesn't tell anyone about my personal moral convictions. One has to look at the individual and what he/she does. Being part of any "club" or "group" doesn't guarantee that any specific person will necessarily be "good".



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(in reply to njlauren)
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RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/14/2013 3:59:21 PM   
Tuub


Posts: 79
Joined: 2/5/2013
Status: offline 		I'm Christian-Katholic but i don't believe in the bible nor in God.

I believe that a person just has to do the best to live a happy life for him and others.
(The basic message of all religions)

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/14/2013 4:02:49 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		eerr....how the hell is one a Christian if they don't believe in God????


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Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/14/2013 4:08:01 PM   
Tuub


Posts: 79
Joined: 2/5/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

eerr....how the hell is one a Christian if they don't believe in God????



I am Christian-Katholic from the age of a month or so.... I didn't had much choice;)

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/14/2013 4:11:08 PM   
mistress1974


Posts: 12
Joined: 4/9/2013
Status: offline 		I was torn to shreads twice on this site for being a prof Domme...by christians...I have a relationship with God...Im just very kinky

(in reply to Tuub)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/14/2013 4:13:06 PM   
Tuub


Posts: 79
Joined: 2/5/2013
Status: offline 		How do you mean? they didn't approve of it or what?

If they didn't well that's their problem... they aren't worthy of being called Christians.

(in reply to mistress1974)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/14/2013 5:57:47 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		You ever been to a buffet?


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

eerr....how the hell is one a Christian if they don't believe in God????




_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/16/2013 10:00:15 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
eerr....how the hell is one a Christian if they don't believe in God????


I know multiple people who don't believe in god but because of the bigotry against atheists won't come out of the closet. They still identify as Catholic and go through the motions so their families and friends don't shit a brick.

That's why I asked you in the other thread how you'd know when you've met closet atheists?


Christ on a stick there are active Catholic priests who are secretly atheists, when you go to church it could even be to listen to an atheist
http://www.clergyproject.org/

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/16/2013 2:17:13 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		It is way more fun to jump out of the closet and piss off all the God-ies in the fam. Nothing like not becoming a satanist or a crazed hedonist as they assume you will. Sorry to disappoint.

The only difficulty is keeping grandparents off your children trying to have them baptized (you know so an innocent won't be sent to hell by a vengeful god!?!?!? why not baptize at birth if that is what they are worried about, hell why not baptize mom's belly in case she miscarries [what a crock of shit!!!!])..... While not opposed to letting the kid get baptized, we feel it is their decision, something they cannot rationally make until they are nearly an adult.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/17/2013 12:21:45 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

eerr....how the hell is one a Christian if they don't believe in God????

I know multiple people who don't believe in god but because of the bigotry against atheists won't come out of the closet. They still identify as Catholic and go through the motions so their families and friends don't shit a brick...

Christ on a stick there are active Catholic priests who are secretly atheists, when you go to church it could even be to listen to an atheist
http://www.clergyproject.org/

From the Clergy Project website:

Teresa MacBain has a secret, one she’s terrified to reveal. “I’m currently an active pastor and I’m also an atheist,” she says. “I live a double life. I feel pretty good on Monday, but by Thursday — when Sunday’s right around the corner — I start having stomachaches, headaches, just knowing that I got to stand up and say things that I no longer believe in and portray myself in a way that’s totally false.”

She's "got to" do it? Because of those nasty bigots? Bullshit. These are people who are consciously and deliberately engaging in lying and deceit because they don't have a single pair of man-panties in their entire fucking wardrobe. Simply put, they don't have any job prospects and don't want to give up the income.

Teresa MacBain is the executive director for The Clergy Project, a safe haven for active and former clergy who do not hold supernatural beliefs. The Clergy Project is working to expand its reach by providing tangible assistance to transitioning clergy via a financial grant and reemployment aid. She is now working to raise awareness for the freethought community and, in particular, the fellow clergy persons who are still trapped in the pulpit.

Yeah, trapped. By bigots. Unh huh. Well at least one spineless wonder has found a way to make some money. Directions on how to contribute are right on the front page. I can understand they're in a tough situation, but don't cry to us about them being in it because of bigotry. You really need to get over this victim thing.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/17/2013 12:53:40 AM >

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/17/2013 8:46:39 AM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

eerr....how the hell is one a Christian if they don't believe in God????

I know multiple people who don't believe in god but because of the bigotry against atheists won't come out of the closet. They still identify as Catholic and go through the motions so their families and friends don't shit a brick...

Christ on a stick there are active Catholic priests who are secretly atheists, when you go to church it could even be to listen to an atheist
http://www.clergyproject.org/

From the Clergy Project website:

Teresa MacBain has a secret, one she’s terrified to reveal. “I’m currently an active pastor and I’m also an atheist,” she says. “I live a double life. I feel pretty good on Monday, but by Thursday — when Sunday’s right around the corner — I start having stomachaches, headaches, just knowing that I got to stand up and say things that I no longer believe in and portray myself in a way that’s totally false.”

She's "got to" do it? Because of those nasty bigots? Bullshit. These are people who are consciously and deliberately engaging in lying and deceit because they don't have a single pair of man-panties in their entire fucking wardrobe. Simply put, they don't have any job prospects and don't want to give up the income.

Teresa MacBain is the executive director for The Clergy Project, a safe haven for active and former clergy who do not hold supernatural beliefs. The Clergy Project is working to expand its reach by providing tangible assistance to transitioning clergy via a financial grant and reemployment aid. She is now working to raise awareness for the freethought community and, in particular, the fellow clergy persons who are still trapped in the pulpit.

Yeah, trapped. By bigots. Unh huh. Well at least one spineless wonder has found a way to make some money. Directions on how to contribute are right on the front page. I can understand they're in a tough situation, but don't cry to us about them being in it because of bigotry. You really need to get over this victim thing.

K.



K-

I think you are missing some of the broader points....

1: If that is want they trained for and all they know, it is difficult find employment when you have no other skills. They aren't trapped by bigots but by circumstances. And how many other Americans perform at a job they despise but can't give up the income?? My years in consruction I ran into them all the time. They didn't know anything else and weren't that bright. I always felt bad for the tile guys who were still setting tile in their 50s and 60s. That is brutal on the back and knees. Some never possessed the skill to ever run their own crew, and it is all they knew for making a buck. For denomenations that permit marriage and have pastors with families, the prospect of losing their income is terrifying.

2: As far as feeling they can't 'come out of the closet' about being atheist...I find that a very real fear. I have family in a small central Missouri town. The husband is some kind of deacon/pastor in his church. Very religious town.... Now, he has another job there so he doesn't need the church for cash. But, if he were to take on those beliefs and give up on God, he would be social outcast. Sort of shunned from most of the social activity in the town. Unless he took up heavy drinking at the bars, all of the family activities revolve around the churches. Now he doesn't have those feelings, so all is well. But it would be a dilema if he ever thought differently.

As far as 'one spineless wonder has found a way to make some money,' you may be right. The road to hell has always been paved with good intentions. I don't necessarily see something wrong with her intent, but there is no arguing that it is a bit of 'woe is me' and 'I want compensation'.

I think you might be being a little harsh in that assessment.


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/17/2013 8:55:08 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Simply put, they don't have any job prospects and don't want to give up the income.

I think you are missing some of the broader points....

1. it is difficult find employment when you have no other skills.

Yep, especially nice clean work with social standing. So they go on engaging in lies and deceit for the money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

2: As far as feeling they can't 'come out of the closet' about being atheist...

That has nothing to do with it. They could resign for personal reasons. There's no obligation to bare their chest.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/17/2013 9:02:21 AM >

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/17/2013 9:15:51 AM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Simply put, they don't have any job prospects and don't want to give up the income.

I think you are missing some of the broader points....

1. it is difficult find employment when you have no other skills.

Yep, especially nice clean work with social standing. So they go on engaging in lies and deceit for the money.



So, I hope you feel that way about infomercials, lawyers, politicians, CEOs, brokers, and most of the holistic medical people. Even many clergy who DO believe in God do it. Look at the private plane owning televangelists. Con artists, plain and simple. Just to be fair, I want to know if you feel that way, just as to keep our moral compasses in line.

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

2: As far as feeling they can't 'come out of the closet' about being atheist...

That has nothing to do with it. They could resign for personal reasons. There's no obligation to bare their chest.

K.



And when they stop going to church or praying in public, no one will notice? That is easy in a heavily populated area, not in a rural setting where everyone knows everything about everyone.....

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/17/2013 9:29:45 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

I hope you feel that way about...

I am not fond of people who practice deceit for personal gain no matter who or what they are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

And when they stop going to church or praying in public, no one will notice?

So what? They can just smile and say they're in retreat if they don't care to share their views.

K.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/17/2013 5:22:27 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Recently, the various threads about Islamic violence on the boards got me thinking. Mostly because as soon as the argument was made people immediately began assailing Christianity as flawed etc.

Being non-religious myself I found the protagonist/antagonist discussion quite amusing. As if the only people critical of Islam must be bigoted Christians.

I see all religions as unfavorable. I think they exist as immoral institutions devoid of a real moral compass. While well intentioned in some cases and holding some noble ideas, in general, the contradictions and vagueness of their scriptures lend to unlimited moral exceptions and justifications. However, there is one central reason, I believe, that the religious tend to act more immorally than the non-religious is the certitude in their beliefs. I can't say I am certain there is or isn't a god or afterlife because I can neither prove or disprove it definitively.

Because of their certitude that their is an afterlife, they can convince themselves and other to commit some of the most heinous acts to please a deity and ensure a better life in the next. If you believe there isn't an afterlife or aren't sure, you have to value your present life both in its quality and duration. If there is nothing on the other side, you must make the most of what you have now. Now I know many religious argue that without an afterlife why would one care about being moral. I feel that it is central that one acts morally, not as religion defines it, but as reason defines. That being that you ultimately respect and care for your fellow man in the effort that they do the same for you. Meanwhile you care for your own well-being and health, so that you can spend as much time as pleasantly as possible while you are alive. Really without the promise of paradise in the here after, you have to be worried that negative would endanger your chances of having a better life.

How many suicide bombers could you recruit without the promise of the future?

How can you systematically hate someone without the support large group of haters?

Any thoughts on religions and morality in general not specific to one religion or another?


Hmmm....interesting.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
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RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/17/2013 6:58:20 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

You ever been to a buffet?


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

eerr....how the hell is one a Christian if they don't believe in God????






Yeaaahhh...I abhore buffets. You pay for food that you know you won't get your money's worth for because you will already be full after about two plates of substandard food.

And how do you have no choice??? You either are or you aren't. Still confused.


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Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/17/2013 7:01:32 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
eerr....how the hell is one a Christian if they don't believe in God????


I know multiple people who don't believe in god but because of the bigotry against atheists won't come out of the closet. They still identify as Catholic and go through the motions so their families and friends don't shit a brick.

That's why I asked you in the other thread how you'd know when you've met closet atheists?


Christ on a stick there are active Catholic priests who are secretly atheists, when you go to church it could even be to listen to an atheist
http://www.clergyproject.org/


atheists for me, are obvious, not very hard to pick out even if they are in the closet. The simplest conversations, their mannerisms, their etiquette, morals, etc....are going to be radically different from mine. Then again, when I casually talk to people the conversations always lead to something where their atheism is as obvious as the sun.




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Everything has changed

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/17/2013 7:15:30 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
I am not fond of people who practice deceit for personal gain no matter who or what they are.

Sign me up for that too. Even worse in this case, they are practicing deceit from a leadership position which makes them corrupt also.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/17/2013 9:46:44 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		A lot of religion is self identification. People pick. Some people are serial monogamists, and stay with one religion for a while and then move to a different one. Other people try more than one at once. A handful are Atheist/Quakers.




quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

You ever been to a buffet?


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

eerr....how the hell is one a Christian if they don't believe in God????






Yeaaahhh...I abhore buffets. You pay for food that you know you won't get your money's worth for because you will already be full after about two plates of substandard food.

And how do you have no choice??? You either are or you aren't. Still confused.




< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 4/17/2013 9:47:42 PM >

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 220
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