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[Poll]

Does being religious mean that you are:

More moral than the non-religious

13% (8)

As moral as the non-religious

36% (22)

Less moral than the non-religious

18% (11)

chose none of the above as I refuse to voice an opinion yet still vote

31% (19)

Total Votes : 60

(last vote on : 5/14/2014 8:05:37 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/22/2013 6:10:50 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
atheists for me, are obvious, not very hard to pick out even if they are in the closet. The simplest conversations, their mannerisms, their etiquette, morals, etc....are going to be radically different from mine. Then again, when I casually talk to people the conversations always lead to something where their atheism is as obvious as the sun.

[sarcasm]
theists for me, are obvious, not very hard to pick out even if they are in the closet. The simplest conversations, their body weight, their education, personal hygiene etc....are going to be radically different from mine. Then again, when I casually talk to people the conversations always lead to something where yu gunna burn 'n HELL FIRE.
[/sarcasm]

Talk about theists and everybody immediately gets the appalling ignorance of such a statement. But add an A to the word and suddenly quite a few people have an awful hard time noticing what bigotry looks like. Yeah redneck Christian is a stereotype but that cartoonish stereotype is far from the only sort of Christian out there, let alone the only sort of theist.

But add an A and suddenly some people can't manage to grasp that very same concept.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 241

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/22/2013 6:28:50 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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where did I ever say the word "evil"? Intentions always matter when it comes to actions. If I do something for someone but I am doing it out of obligation or because I want something out of it, then for me personally, it's wasted. It's not worth anything to me. But if I do it from the kindness of my heart and because I don't expect anything in return, then for me and my opinion, it's worth everything. I want to know WHY someone is doing something..not just that they are doing it.

YMMV

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 242

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/24/2013 8:21:02 AM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
And even if we did share the same morals, WHY I have my morals are most likely completely different from yours and that really does matter for me. It's the intention, not the action.

Short of telepathy how do you plan to identify atheists by their intentions when their words and actions are identical to yours?

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 243

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/24/2013 8:28:07 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
where did I ever say the word "evil"? Intentions always matter when it comes to actions. If I do something for someone but I am doing it out of obligation or because I want something out of it, then for me personally, it's wasted. It's not worth anything to me. But if I do it from the kindness of my heart and because I don't expect anything in return, then for me and my opinion, it's worth everything. I want to know WHY someone is doing something..not just that they are doing it.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 244

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/24/2013 10:18:57 AM

vincentML

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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

where did I ever say the word "evil"? Intentions always matter when it comes to actions. If I do something for someone but I am doing it out of obligation or because I want something out of it, then for me personally, it's wasted. It's not worth anything to me. But if I do it from the kindness of my heart and because I don't expect anything in return, then for me and my opinion, it's worth everything. I want to know WHY someone is doing something..not just that they are doing it.

YMMV

Mostly we do something because it is the right thing to do. It is part of our morality . . . . even if we are atheists, you see. Our intentions are determined by our codes of morality. We do not have to weigh whether it is worth anything to us. It is just the RIGHT thing to do. Morality has a selfless dimension that is universal to believers and non-believers. Morality is an OUGHT not a WHY.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 4/24/2013 10:20:01 AM >

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 245

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/24/2013 10:30:37 AM

FunCouple5280

Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
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Maybe, I know why I stop and help people on the side of the road even if I am in a hurry....

1: I would hope they would do it for me
2:I feel really good about myself for the rest of the day.

I think there is something inate about morality. Doing the 'right' thing just feels good. Even as a Sadist, I only enjoy it if I am doing it to a masochist who get pleasure from it. Maybe that makes me less of a Sadist, but it also reduces the Asshole factor a lot too

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 246

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/24/2013 12:14:10 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Mostly we do something because it is the right thing to do. It is part of our morality . . . . even if we are atheists, you see. Our intentions are determined by our codes of morality. We do not have to weigh whether it is worth anything to us. It is just the RIGHT thing to do. Morality has a selfless dimension that is universal to believers and non-believers. Morality is an OUGHT not a WHY.

Not everyone is born with such an innate morality - and some who are born with it, loose it.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 247

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/24/2013 12:42:56 PM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Mostly we do something because it is the right thing to do. It is part of our morality . . . . even if we are atheists, you see. Our intentions are determined by our codes of morality. We do not have to weigh whether it is worth anything to us. It is just the RIGHT thing to do. Morality has a selfless dimension that is universal to believers and non-believers. Morality is an OUGHT not a WHY.

Not everyone is born with such an innate morality - and some who are born with it, loose it.

I did not say 'innate' Rule.

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 248

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/24/2013 12:48:40 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

Fast Reply.

Religion doesn't make someone any more or less ethical or moral than one who has no religion.

The problem occurs when people use "Religion" as an excuse to act like an immoral scumbag.

Even though these people CLAIM to be religious, they aren't.
Going to church 3 times a week doesn't make one religious any more than being in a garage makes one a car.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 249

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/24/2013 12:50:51 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

Ah.

Indeed, some of those who are without innate morality may develop a system of ethics, or adopt the ethics provided by a religion or by someone else, as for example their parents.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 250

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/24/2013 12:54:58 PM

ReMakeYou

Posts: 147
Joined: 1/20/2012
Status: offline

Religion makes people more community minded. Whether that's good or bad depends on a lot.

It only really becomes a problem when religion is seen as axiomatically Good. When something is supposedly above questioning, people will exploit that. That's a historical inevitability.

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 251

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/24/2013 6:01:38 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
And even if we did share the same morals, WHY I have my morals are most likely completely different from yours and that really does matter for me. It's the intention, not the action.

Short of telepathy how do you plan to identify atheists by their intentions when their words and actions are identical to yours?

<just looks at the way GotSteel likes to argue and doesn't say another word>

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 252

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/25/2013 12:39:07 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
I think there is something inate about morality.

We're hardwired for moral reasoning similar to how we're hardwired for language. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/05/morality_is_har/

Just like we end up acquiring different languages (English, Spanish, etc.) we also end up acquiring different systems of morality. For instance I'm a humanist, I think "good" is what's best for humanist. Someone else might think that "good" is what's pleasing to their god.

For example a person with the latter sort of moral reasoning who's of the opinion that her god hates gays might conclude that oppressing homosexuals is the right thing to do. People with the former sort of moral reasoning on the other hand overwhelmingly come to the conclusion that oppressing homosexuals is super evil.

Where the bigotry came into this thread is when atheists all got assigned a single position. Seriously, how many times do I have to show people who don't understand atheism that trying to inform atheists how atheism works makes them look ignorant before they get it?

(in reply to FunCouple5280)

Post #: 253

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/25/2013 12:54:26 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
I think there is something inate about morality.

We're hardwired for moral reasoning similar to how we're hardwired for language. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/05/morality_is_har/

Just like we end up acquiring different languages (English, Spanish, etc.) we also end up acquiring different systems of morality.

That is a six years out of date speculation, and it's wrong.

What is innate is a sense of fairness, not merely a capacity for learning moral behavior.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

For instance I'm a humanist, I think "good" is what's best for humanist.

Yes, some people are like that. They think "good" is what's best for their group.

I don't recommend taking advice from them.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/25/2013 12:58:56 PM >

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 254

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 4/25/2013 1:36:57 PM

FunCouple5280

Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
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quote:

Where the bigotry came into this thread is when atheists all got assigned a single position. Seriously, how many times do I have to show people who don't understand atheism that trying to inform atheists how atheism works makes them look ignorant before they get it?

Lol Yup, The problem with people that do it is they usually never held the view of atheism. So, they never really do understand it. The difference with atheists is that many of them were formerly people belonging to some religion or another. While they may claim atheists cannot speak intelligently about religion, they can as they were once part of that belief. Yet, since they have never waivered in faith, they cannot speak intelligently of atheistic behavior other than from limited observation.

Where I differ with many atheists is that I claim they are still people of faith; whereas they will often refuse that notion (I don't know where you sit as to project on your feelings).

I was once christian, then atheist for a good degade, now I would say I am like an agnostic with some nihilistic tendencies. I got that way because I found myself as an atheist feeling a bit the same as I did. Still having faith, faith that there was no higher power or spiritual world. With the notion, I could neither prove nor disprove any of it with certitude, I chose to go more for the lack of belief in anything certain. All I really know, is faith is one thing and religion is another. I want nothing of religion, I want nothing of the dictates of man and his dogma to rule my life. While religion may be based on a faith, faith does not require the doctrine of religion to exist.

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 255

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 5/10/2014 7:39:43 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
Why are they rationalizing? because [insert diety here] or really the guy on shrooms writing the scripture gave them the notion that one should have faith, follow the word, and say fuck reason.

"Thinking is stinking," -Charles Manson

(in reply to FunCouple5280)

Post #: 256

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 5/11/2014 1:08:51 AM

Kirata

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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

"Thinking is stinking," -Charles Manson

You dredged up a thread that's been dead for over a year just to post that?

We'll chalk it up as autobiographical, then.

K.

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 257

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 5/11/2014 1:16:49 AM

DaddySatyr

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Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

"Thinking is stinking," -Charles Manson

You dredged up a thread that's been dead for over a year just to post that?

We'll chalk it up as autobiographical, then.

K.

I don't know, K. I was thinking about adding to this thread for quite some time but I just couldn't find an appropriate David Berkowitz quotation.

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/11/2014 1:53:39 AM >

_____________________________

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 258

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 5/11/2014 10:21:11 AM

Musicmystery

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It does at least explain his disdain for thoughtful discussion in lieu of endlessly repeating his own position.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 259

RE: Does being religious mean that you are: - 5/11/2014 1:32:48 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

"Thinking is stinking," -Charles Manson

You dredged up a thread that's been dead for over a year just to post that?

We'll chalk it up as autobiographical, then.

K.

I don't know, K. I was thinking about adding to this thread for quite some time but I just couldn't find an appropriate David Berkowitz quotation.

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

"The demons wanted my penis."

http://psychautopsy.weebly.com/7/post/2008/05/david-berkowitz-quotes.html

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 260

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