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Kirata -> Cops and Guns (4/10/2013 11:15:02 PM)


Survey of 15,000 Law Enforcement Professionals about U.S. Gun Control Policies

The survey, which was conducted in early March 2013, received 15,000 responses from law enforcement professionals... Response percentages varied only slightly when analyzed by rank and department size. Among the results:
    • 86 percent feel the currently proposed legislation would have no effect or a negative effect on improving officer safety

    • Similarly, 92 percent feel that banning semi-automatic firearms, or “assault weapons,” would have no effect or a negative effect on reducing violent crime

    • Demonstrating the opinion that the best way to combat gun crime is through harsher punishment, 91 percent said the use of a firearm while perpetrating a crime should lead to a stiff, mandatory sentence with no plea bargains. Likewise, 59 percent believe increasing punishment severity for unlicensed dealers would reduce crime

    • 71 percent support law enforcement leaders who have publicly refused to enforce more restrictive gun laws within their jurisdictions

    • 91 percent support the concealed carry of firearms by civilians who have not been convicted of a felony and/or have not been deemed psychologically incapable

    • Likewise, 80 percent feel that legally-armed citizens would likely have reduced the number of casualties in recent mass shooting incidents
I think the results of this survey and the experience of the officers of all ranks who participated deserve serious consideration, both by those whose minds are not yet made up, and especially by those who ridicule these views and insult anyone who holds them.

K.




TricklessMagic -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 6:22:30 AM)

The truth is not a defense. You should know better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Survey of 15,000 Law Enforcement Professionals about U.S. Gun Control Policies

The survey, which was conducted in early March 2013, received 15,000 responses from law enforcement professionals... Response percentages varied only slightly when analyzed by rank and department size. Among the results:
    • 86 percent feel the currently proposed legislation would have no effect or a negative effect on improving officer safety

    • Similarly, 92 percent feel that banning semi-automatic firearms, or “assault weapons,” would have no effect or a negative effect on reducing violent crime

    • Demonstrating the opinion that the best way to combat gun crime is through harsher punishment, 91 percent said the use of a firearm while perpetrating a crime should lead to a stiff, mandatory sentence with no plea bargains. Likewise, 59 percent believe increasing punishment severity for unlicensed dealers would reduce crime

    • 71 percent support law enforcement leaders who have publicly refused to enforce more restrictive gun laws within their jurisdictions

    • 91 percent support the concealed carry of firearms by civilians who have not been convicted of a felony and/or have not been deemed psychologically incapable

    • Likewise, 80 percent feel that legally-armed citizens would likely have reduced the number of casualties in recent mass shooting incidents
I think the results of this survey and the experience of the officers of all ranks who participated deserve serious consideration, both by those whose minds are not yet made up, and especially by those who ridicule these views and insult anyone who holds them.

K.






Powergamz1 -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 7:14:02 AM)

But doesn't the IACP say *they* are telling the truth?

[sm=rofl.gif]




Nosathro -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 7:19:14 AM)

The government has about 4 million handguns, rifles and shotgun. The public has over 300 million handguns, rifles and shotguns....




Lucylastic -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 8:17:57 AM)

I wonder why all 400,000 of them didnt respond?




subrob1967 -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 9:45:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I wonder why all 400,000 of them didnt respond?


Because we didn't get the questionairre.




Lucylastic -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 9:51:56 AM)

From Ks Link
The survey was promoted by PoliceOne exclusively to its 400,000 registered members, comprised of individually-verified law enforcement professionals. Only current, former or retired law enforcement personnel were eligible to participate in the survey.




JeffBC -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 10:09:01 AM)

I'm of mixed opinion about this.

On one hand I completely agree that with the status-quo these are the professionals and their opinions matter. So in the short-term I completely accept this view.

On the other hand, in the long-term I have no interest in an increasingly lawless society with an internal arms race happening. So I'd really like to get at some of the root causes which I suspect have to do with things like poverty, social inequity, and a general sense of lawlessness. Those things will not get fixed with guns... either banning them or buying them.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 10:18:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'm of mixed opinion about this.

On one hand I completely agree that with the status-quo these are the professionals and their opinions matter. So in the short-term I completely accept this view.

On the other hand, in the long-term I have no interest in an increasingly lawless society.

Why would you say we have an increasingly lawless society?
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/11/12170947-fbi-violent-crime-rates-in-the-us-drop-approach-historic-lows?lite

According to FBI crime statistics, violent crime is much lower than 40 years ago.
I'd add that it is lower even though the threshold for reporting is lower.

40 years ago, 2 guys get in a fight in a bar and the cops say "Break it up, go home and sleep it off". Now, they make 2 felony arrests.
Rapes are reported better now than they were then (Thank Goodness)
etc, etc

We have better reporting and we still have a lower crime rate.




JeffBC -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 10:28:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Why would you say we have an increasingly lawless society?

We have a society that no longer values things like "honor". "Winning" is the last word on pretty much everything. Our own leaders make a mockery of "playing by the rules" on a daily basis. The bankers, our noble class, simply decline to be prosecuted. I personally believe that a lot of people look at that and quite correctly conclude that the way to get ahead is to cheat.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 10:33:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Why would you say we have an increasingly lawless society?

We have a society that no longer values things like "honor". "Winning" is the last word on pretty much everything. Our own leaders make a mockery of "playing by the rules" on a daily basis. The bankers, our noble class, simply decline to be prosecuted. I personally believe that a lot of people look at that and quite correctly conclude that the way to get ahead is to cheat.

Do you think the bankers and leaders and other high muck a mucks who don't play by the rules is a new thing or has it been around for a couple of centuries and is just now being reported?
(this question may be fodder for its own topic here).

I see parallels between our high and mighty and a certain large church.
Abuse has been coming to light in the last couple of decades with that (and others) church.
Is the abuse new or has it been happening for centuries and it was just not reported?

I see the "Captains of Industry" in a similar situation. They've been 'above the law' for a couple of centuries but it was never reported before.




JeffBC -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 10:43:14 AM)

It is, of course, nothing new. I see it as cyclical. All that's going on now is we're in the final stages of that. The elite, who have been cheating all along, have allowed it to become obvious that they are cheating scoundrels. It's the terminal part of the cycle. Because it's become obvious that the way to become "elite" is to cheat... well.... people aren't stupid.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 10:48:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

It is, of course, nothing new. I see it as cyclical. All that's going on now is we're in the final stages of that. The elite, who have been cheating all along, have allowed it to become obvious that they are cheating scoundrels. It's the terminal part of the cycle. Because it's become obvious that the way to become "elite" is to cheat... well.... people aren't stupid.

I'll buy that. Like I said, maybe that needs its own topic rather than hijacking this one.




mnottertail -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 11:07:53 AM)

I really don't care what a survey of cops say, knowing so many as I do, until such a time as I can carry a gun and draw it on a cop or taze them for being agressive, loudmouth motherfuckers, who are resisting.........fuck em.




Kirata -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 11:22:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I have no interest in an increasingly lawless society with an internal arms race happening.

Setting aside corporate and political corruption for a moment, the United States is nowhere near as violent a society as the hand-wringing emotion-junkies like to portray. The vast majority of Americans, including poor and near-poor, live in peaceful communities where violent crime is rarely encountered. The statistics are skewed by the utterly insane violence that blights our inner-city neighborhoods and those segments of the population that live in them. A picture is worth a thousand words:

Interactive Map of Murder in New York City

Even in our smaller cities, there's almost inevitably a "part of town" that people avoid if they can. The determinants of violent crime are socioeconomic and cultural. But it's the cultural factor that determines how people will respond to socioeconomic inequalities, and the violent sub-cultures that exist in these communities must own the results. Personally, I don't know how to help them. Money hasn't worked. And New York City's gun laws are easily among the most restrictive in the country.

The only factor that seems directly related to why this ongoing tragedy in our inner-cities has continued for so long is that the self-righteous "Save Our Children" chorus only starts to sing when some white kids get killed.

K.




BamaD -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 10:58:35 PM)

Isn't 15000 out of 400,000 a much larger sampling than the average poll?




BamaD -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 11:02:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

But doesn't the IACP say *they* are telling the truth?

[sm=rofl.gif]

As they see it perhaps, but this survey is in line with what every cop I have known says.




Kirata -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/11/2013 11:57:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

But doesn't the IACP say *they* are telling the truth?

[sm=rofl.gif]

As they see it perhaps, but this survey is in line with what every cop I have known says.


That's because it's an organization with no political agenda. The IACP is in bed with the Joyce Foundation.

Since 2003, the Joyce Foundation has paid grants totaling over $12 million to gun control organizations. The largest single grantee has been the Violence Policy Center, which received $4,154,970 between 1996 and 2006, and calls for an outright ban on handguns, semi-automatic and other firearms, and substantial restrictions on gun owners. ~Wikipedia

The Violence Policy Center (VPC) is a national 501(c)(3) corporation and government lobbying group working to tighten the regulation of firearms and archery equipment in the United States, especially in relation to gun politics... Its work includes lobbying the United States Congress to end non-military and non-law-enforcement ownership of handguns and to tighten the regulation of long guns. ~Wikipedia

Sorry for not pointing that out sooner, but sometimes I like to let people enjoy their empty laughs for a bit.

What can I say, I'm a charitable guy.

K.




tweakabelle -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/12/2013 12:08:14 AM)

quote:

Even in our smaller cities, there's almost inevitably a "part of town" that people avoid if they can. The determinants of violent crime are socioeconomic and cultural. But it's the cultural factor that determines how people will respond to socioeconomic inequalities, and the violent sub-cultures that exist in these communities must own the results. Personally, I don't know how to help them. Money hasn't worked. And New York City's gun laws are easily among the most restrictive in the country.


At last a comment that suggests some thought went into it rather than the cliche-ridden vitriol and outright falsifications that I've learnt to expect from some gun nuts.

If this analysis has merit, and I believe it does, then the obvious answer is to dismantle the ghetto system,which acts as a training ground and location for much of the US's violent crime. That entails racially integrated suburbs, schools, social institutions etc - the kinds of things that the so-called ‘White Flight’ phenomenon sought to avoid.

It won’t be cheap. But will thousands dying annually and millions incarcerated can the US afford not to do it?




YN -> RE: Cops and Guns (4/12/2013 2:20:58 AM)

There are those places in every part of the world. While it may be convenient to claim racial grounds are the cause, the reality is that there are a class of lumpen proletariat who arm themselves and attempt to prey upon others or to protect their criminal trade, in many parts of the world, even in China and Japan.

We have several places or areas where the Public Force patrol in groups of three or more and armed with shotguns, sub-machine guns and military rifles, and with powerful and trained dogs too.

I see from a casual search there are such places in Australia.

There are a certain few people who only understand force, and they are worldwide.




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