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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 10:08:11 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
From what I heard reported, many had crossed the finish line and the crowd had thinned out. The race was winding down and waiting for the stragglers to come in. The carnage could have been much worse.

4 hours after the start is roughly when the bulk of the runners finish. The bombs were timed to that fact apparently and seem to have been intended to cause the most carnage.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 10:09:20 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Obama is gonna take your bombs away sort of thing or?

We shall see Ron. My concern is that we have yet another round of "Patriot Act". Surely given our history you can't think the concern is totally unwarranted? Given Obama's personal history it seems perfectly plausible. But we shall see what he does when he DOESSOMETHING(tm).

What personal history of the President ,makes you think he will push laws limiting your civil rights?

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 10:15:35 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
From what I heard reported, many had crossed the finish line and the crowd had thinned out. The race was winding down and waiting for the stragglers to come in. The carnage could have been much worse.

4 hours after the start is roughly when the bulk of the runners finish. The bombs were timed to that fact apparently and seem to have been intended to cause the most carnage.



But I did hear on a report that the winners had crossed and the crowd at the finish line had thinned. I didn't want to say this but I heard it on FOX. if in fact the crowd had thinned out it would have been worse if the bombs went off just before the winners crossed the finish line.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 10:37:28 AM   
TallullahHk


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The crowds thin for a bit after the elite runners cross the line but then starts to bulk up again around 1:30-2:00 when more of the 'regular' runners start coming in.

Timing and location were not a coincidence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
From what I heard reported, many had crossed the finish line and the crowd had thinned out. The race was winding down and waiting for the stragglers to come in. The carnage could have been much worse.

4 hours after the start is roughly when the bulk of the runners finish. The bombs were timed to that fact apparently and seem to have been intended to cause the most carnage.



But I did hear on a report that the winners had crossed and the crowd at the finish line had thinned. I didn't want to say this but I heard it on FOX. if in fact the crowd had thinned out it would have been worse if the bombs went off just before the winners crossed the finish line.


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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 10:45:06 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
From what I heard reported, many had crossed the finish line and the crowd had thinned out. The race was winding down and waiting for the stragglers to come in. The carnage could have been much worse.

4 hours after the start is roughly when the bulk of the runners finish. The bombs were timed to that fact apparently and seem to have been intended to cause the most carnage.



But I did hear on a report that the winners had crossed and the crowd at the finish line had thinned. I didn't want to say this but I heard it on FOX. if in fact the crowd had thinned out it would have been worse if the bombs went off just before the winners crossed the finish line.

AIUI the media thin out but families and friends start crowding around at that time as most of the runners finish.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 11:01:17 AM   
Nosathro


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Being from the New England I am wondering why at the end of the Marathon? I know there has been some talk about it. I have family members living in Hopkington, the start of the race. Having been there I can tell you the place is elbow to elbow, Hopkington has only 8 police but there is plenty of State Troopers, no medical facilities to speak of. If you have major injuries there you would have to helicopter them out, the major route to a hospital is the marathon route. The News is there, it would be a good place to do a lot of damage.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 11:05:58 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
From what I heard reported, many had crossed the finish line and the crowd had thinned out. The race was winding down and waiting for the stragglers to come in. The carnage could have been much worse.

4 hours after the start is roughly when the bulk of the runners finish. The bombs were timed to that fact apparently and seem to have been intended to cause the most carnage.

But I did hear on a report that the winners had crossed and the crowd at the finish line had thinned. I didn't want to say this but I heard it on FOX. if in fact the crowd had thinned out it would have been worse if the bombs went off just before the winners crossed the finish line.


The brother of a guy that graduated 2 years ahead of me had finished the race and was on the subway out when the first bomb went off. He's not an "elite" runner, unless you consider that being able to finish a marathon in the first place makes one "elite."


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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 11:32:55 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallullahHk

The crowds thin for a bit after the elite runners cross the line but then starts to bulk up again around 1:30-2:00 when more of the 'regular' runners start coming in.

Timing and location were not a coincidence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
From what I heard reported, many had crossed the finish line and the crowd had thinned out. The race was winding down and waiting for the stragglers to come in. The carnage could have been much worse.

4 hours after the start is roughly when the bulk of the runners finish. The bombs were timed to that fact apparently and seem to have been intended to cause the most carnage.



But I did hear on a report that the winners had crossed and the crowd at the finish line had thinned. I didn't want to say this but I heard it on FOX. if in fact the crowd had thinned out it would have been worse if the bombs went off just before the winners crossed the finish line.




The non-elite runners start at 20 minute intervals following the elite men at 10am; the "third wave" set out at 10:40.
The average time is around 4:10 which coincides with the explosions.
The timing was not at all accidental.


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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 11:59:48 AM   
VideoAdminChi


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FR,

I would like to draw your attention to what VAA said on the other bomb thread:

Ok folks I have removed A LOT Of remarks in this thread. Please refrain from sniping at one another and interwining other current discussion/debates with this one.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 1:35:00 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Speaking the truth is never prejudice...


A common misconception.

The truth is the truth. The means by which we arrive at it are a distinct thing. The journey and destination are not interchangeable. We may travel the road of the stopped clock to arrive at the incidentally correct time of day, just as we can travel the road of prejudice to arrive at an incidental truth. It is not to the credit of our vessel when we do so, and the occurence of truth does not excuse the faulty means of arriving at it.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 2:25:44 PM   
mnottertail


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Well, I have heard from all my Boston friends, and all mine are safe.  But as the thead subject states, they are all insensitive Bostonians.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/16/2013 2:58:24 PM >


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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 4:44:50 PM   
deathtothepixies


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

Assuming this is an act of terror.........

how many people are going to die because of this? At the moment it is 2, the usual reaction of the US when someone throws a stone at their greenhouse is to throw boulders, rocks and bucket loads of shit in the general direction of countries they don't like. I am sure some intel will pop up fairly soon pointing to somewhere far away where evil people live and then the drones will fly.

How many people are going to die because of this?

Will those deaths make the world a better place?


Unless it`s state sponsored,there won`t be any mass bombings.......

If it`s political terror,either of the domestic or imported ilk,they will be brought to justice and punished.

The multiple nature of the attack tells me it`s a major operation.



if it is state sponsered........ the WMD intel re Iraq was fake, what if Iran were to be blamed for this?

Terrorist acts don't go unpunished by the US and so far it has got you where?
ps. unfortunately when I say you I have to include us ie. Britain

Will those deaths make the world a better place?

"the WMD intel re Iraq was fake,". Fake about what and according to who?


could you please talk us through all of the weapons of mass destruction that were found in Iraq, and how they were going to kill ( I assume) tens of thousands of people with them?

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 6:47:46 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

A common misconception.

The truth is the truth


Then how my friend is saying that a terrorist group that would claim responsibility for this atrocity would be putting a target on their backs not the truth? This is the truth as proven by history...what say you?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/16/2013 6:48:58 PM >


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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 7:03:03 PM   
LizDeluxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
We may travel the road of the stopped clock to arrive at the incidentally correct time of day, just as we can travel the road of prejudice to arrive at an incidental truth.


A minute later the clock will again be incorrect yet the incidental truth will still be the truth.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 8:55:49 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies
not picking on you Owner but for the third time will those deaths make the world a better place?


There certainly are individuals for whom the world is a better place without them in it.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 9:32:48 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Then how my friend is saying that a terrorist group that would claim responsibility for this atrocity would be putting a target on their backs not the truth? This is the truth as proven by history...what say you?


The ones you pointed out have repeatedly proven themselves willing to paint huge targets on their back, and have shown a fair degree of competency in picking targets (whatever you or I might think about 9/11, you have to admit it worked; they inflicted trillions of dollars worth of financial losses, serious curtailment of liberties, umpteen thousand lives lost, recession, loss of political status, loss of international sympathies, and significantly increased recruitment for terrorism worldwide with consequent increases in terrorist activities).

The bomb was a low order explosive with a yield of a few pounds, possibly loaded with ball bearings (the reports don't seem clear on whether the shrapnel was incidental or not), and positioned in a decent spot, but poorly timed. AQ has a long history of testing their gear to make sure it works well, with a strong preference for high order explosives, often a nitrate or peroxide based one. The targets were fairly random, but in a single location, and marginal casualties (in the greater scheme of things, this could've gone a lot worse, and would've gone a lot worse if AQ were behind it).

Simply put, there's no motive for them to pick this target, the method is cruder than they usually go for, and they would be quite happy to suffer the consequences of claiming responsibility. It makes no sense, whereas jihadist terrorism most of the time tends to make perfect sense, in terms of targets chosen and methods used.

No, if this is from a familiar source at all, it's probably a domestic one.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

P.S.: Tweakabelle, the very purpose of this thread was to set aside a space for other purposes than the conventional need for grieving and such, since it was inevitable that some would want to process theirs in a different manner (or would want to discuss), ideally allowing the other thread(s) to be reserved for what you called for here. I propose it's better to have one thread, clearly labelled, for the alternative ways of dealing with what has happened, and one or more for the conventional ways. If I'd thought of it sooner, we might've avoided a lot of needless aggravation in the other thread. Please allow us to process this in our own way.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 9:36:53 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

A minute later the clock will again be incorrect yet the incidental truth will still be the truth.


Which was my point: the stopped clock is not a valid route to the truth.

I could throw some dice and see what they turn up. They might even arrive at the truth. But I wouldn't call it a reasonable method of discerning the truth. And one of my main complaints was precisely that the methodology behind asserting that this was jihadist terrorism is an unreasonable one, based on unreliable prejudice that will inevitably do more harm than good. The fact that his conclusion also seems unlikely is an entirely seperate point.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 9:37:15 PM   
kdsub


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That's better... at least you chose to answer me rationally rather then falsely call me prejudiced simply because I presented an alternative to your view.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/16/2013 9:41:27 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 9:54:18 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That's better... at least you chose to answer me rationally rather then falsely call me prejudiced simply because I presented an alternative to your view.


I think you misunderstood me and my intentions, kdsub. Would it perhaps be agreeable if I clarified when this matter is at a greater distance, to avoid any possible influence from emotional states? (No implications intended. I just know I was certainly more apt to misinterpret the tone and intention of other posters while the Oslo/Utøya thing was unfolding.)

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 10:06:45 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

P.S.: Tweakabelle, the very purpose of this thread was to set aside a space for other purposes than the conventional need for grieving and such, since it was inevitable that some would want to process theirs in a different manner (or would want to discuss), ideally allowing the other thread(s) to be reserved for what you called for here. I propose it's better to have one thread, clearly labelled, for the alternative ways of dealing with what has happened, and one or more for the conventional ways. If I'd thought of it sooner, we might've avoided a lot of needless aggravation in the other thread. Please allow us to process this in our own way.





Well said. It's a shame it was needed, with the words, "insensitive thread" plastered across the top of the page.

Hell, we even have a just plain nasty one forming up, for those who like pointy sticks.

_____________________________

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 100
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