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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 6:58:57 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Well, I see, from someone quoting, that I've already been invoked, and an imaginary position assigned to me. I swear, that guy must lie awake at night, thinking about me. Fortunately, I'm comfortable in my heterosexuality, and just take it as a compliment.

There doesn't seem to be much actual discussion of the event here, so much as comment on the nature of the comments, which is a pity, since I have a hypothesis I wanted to play around with. Guess I need to go read the sensitive threads.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 7:02:23 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Confirming what an insensitive bastard I can be, this is the thread I came right to. Thanks, Aswad!


You're welcome, of course, TheHeretic.

I can be more insensitive than most (heh), but usually choose not to be.

Just seemed like it was in order, with the other thread heating up with a lot of metadiscussion to boot.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 7:09:23 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Well, I see, from someone quoting, that I've already been invoked, and an imaginary position assigned to me. I swear, that guy must lie awake at night, thinking about me. Fortunately, I'm comfortable in my heterosexuality, and just take it as a compliment.

There doesn't seem to be much actual discussion of the event here, so much as comment on the nature of the comments, which is a pity, since I have a hypothesis I wanted to play around with. Guess I need to go read the sensitive threads.




What comes around goes around,mate.




_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 7:51:15 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		So, setting aside the awful individual tragedies and trauma (which are awful and tragic to be sure), the attack itself is what has my brain engaged. Just my way of dealing with stuff, I suppose. I made the "bomb control," joke, right after I got to the little TV in the lunchroom at work.

The BBC app was providing a video of the finish line, at the moment of the first blast. Shame I had to use a foreign source to get useful information (staff cuts, and the need for extra bodies at the Beiber desk, perhaps), but the explosion didn't look like military grade stuff. If it is homemade, then homemade by who?

Is it political in any form, or just a genius fat chainsmoker who has snapped at the kind of health nuts who run marathons?

Was this Kim Jong Un's birthday firework for his grandpappy?

The Allah ackbar crowd?

Domestic crazies?

It seems the cops have an injured someone they've been very interested in speaking with. What are the chances we should get that lucky in getting to the bottom of it?



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 8:49:06 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Looks like it's probably domestic, seeing as nobody has bothered to claim responsibility for it, which they're usually all too eager to do if it's the jihadist crowd. Nutjobs are a distinct possibility, but there's just too many reasons to do something like this over there, so it's hard to say for sure. I agree that it's probably home made stuff. The Saudi national strikes me as just a simple case of "he's an Arab, so we'll ask him some questions". Too early to tell for sure.

ETA: Someone mentioned finding it "incongruent" to place a bomb at the finish line of a marathon. I submit that it's the ideal location, since people will be dehydrated and more vulnerable to blood loss, as well as exhausted. Also, the attacker may have assumed that people would gather near the finish line, rather than moving away. Or it may just have been the most convenient spot. Potentially, it could've been a targetted attack, too, meant for one person, but that seems unlikely. And, killing in itself isn't usually the goal.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



< Message edited by Aswad -- 4/15/2013 8:54:30 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 9:26:15 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		There is a lot of anger right now. I am angry as hell and may say something out of anger that I would think better of tomorrow…Many here have done the same I think.

To me there is no comparison between accidental killing of civilians when pursuing and engaging a known terrorist…and a purposeful targeting and killing of civilians.

Someone asked if the world would be a better place if the perpetrators of this tragedy were discovered and eliminated…Yes…in the same way a convicted executed murderer will never kill again.

I’m angry…but I want to be sure we know the full story, if possible, before we act. But when we act I hope we do not hold back. I want to see the full force of American arms brought to bear on not only those directly responsible but, if they exist, their sponsors as well.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/15/2013 9:37:49 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 9:45:38 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

Looks like it's probably domestic, seeing as nobody has bothered to claim responsibility for


Maybe they have finally understood that when they open their mouths they are likely to find a tomahawk flying down their throats.

But to be serious domestic fanatics are no less eager to claim responsibility so I think your theory does not hold water. Someone will step forward when they think it appropriate and we shall see.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 9:53:23 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Domestic is my guess as well, Aswad, but the Boston Marathon is an international event. Did that play into the target decision, beyond the presence of the international media? If there was a group of any sort involved, then there is an ideology behind them. If it was some lone nut, any psychosis imaginable could have led him there. Something God based could be either.

(And of course it would be the finish line, Cloudboy. It's the one place you can be certain there will be a constant crowd.)

I don't see an angle that makes this an anti-government attack. That leaves anti-corporate, and, some hideously distorted vision about the will of God.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 9:57:23 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ETA: Someone mentioned finding it "incongruent" to place a bomb at the finish line of a marathon


That was me -- by incongruent I meant most disturbing. A bomb there juxtaposes joy/achievement with horror/destruction.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 10:10:06 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Maybe they have finally understood that when they open their mouths they are likely to find a tomahawk flying down their throats.


You do realize you're exhibiting some of the same prejudice LL waved around on the other thread, right?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 10:13:33 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Domestic is my guess as well, Aswad, but the Boston Marathon is an international event.


Yeah, I'm not sure the internationality played a part, unless there's some far right, "close our borders" types behind it.

quote:

I don't see an angle that makes this an anti-government attack. That leaves anti-corporate, and, some hideously distorted vision about the will of God.


I can see a few other angles, but none I think would add much to the discussion.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 10:22:36 PM   
Bigsqueezer


Posts: 65
Joined: 8/29/2012
Status: offline 		I think there's religious nuts angry at Mass for their stance on Gay Marriage and their role in the troubling of DOMA - religious crazy people. Home grown.

So there's my baseless insensitive brah.

IF they wanted to hit the finish line, why not when it was full or when the mob was passing through. most of thew field had already passed the line. the timing is curious and I can not help thinking...
Tax day
Waco day
time of explosions

equals something.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 10:50:54 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

I can see a few other angles, but none I think would add much to the discussion.




Please share anyway, if you feel like it. The risk of not adding much doesn't seem any deterrent at all to many, and if the fire at the Kennedy Library was another facet of the attack, then anti-government ideology may come right back in, too. I heard a secondhand report there were 5 further bombs found, and video of multiple individuals dropping backpacks.

I'm calling it a night, and will hope the morning offers some clearer details, and better understanding of the horror.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 4/15/2013 10:52:10 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/15/2013 11:22:04 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Apparently there were ball bearings in there, so at least, from a technical point of view, not quite as crude, though I still shudder that officials are calling it a "sophisticated" attack.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


And could have easily been carried out by one man, this is reminisent of the Olympic bombing in Atlanta, right down to the type of bomb.
That was 17 years ago so I doubt the same person(s) did it but they seem to have had the same approach.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 12:12:07 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Please share anyway, if you feel like it.


Xenophobia, for instance. And anyone shorting stock made a killing that day, hopefully not literally. To a suitably cynic mind, arming some xenophobic nutjob with some explosives and a half baked conspiracy theory is a cheap way to get a bunch of inside info on which to base a major profit. Heck, if I were the tinfoil type, I'd even entertain the DHS and the like, but I don't credit them with the competence to pull it off and keep it quiet. Lots of groups will profit from this.

I mean, a marathon seems a bit too random a target for explosives, unless you have a purpose in mind.

Any scenario I can construct where I'd consider such an attack (putting myself in the attackers' shoes), I would either have a very clear motive tied to profits/power (e.g. shorting stocks, more power to security theatre operators), or a specific target (e.g. one of those finishing at that time), or symbolism (e.g. attacking foreign nationals or international events), or I would have other attacks in the pipeline (e.g. terror motive). Explosives take a bit more effort than a gun. Placement and timing are everything. These weren't haphazardly placed. That indicates a measure of intent and some consideration.

Random explosives against large, international crowds is a rather novel MO for the US, IIRC.

A nutjob is possible, as is a foreign attacker, but really, it's a curious choice of targets.

quote:

I heard a secondhand report there were 5 further bombs found, and video of multiple individuals dropping backpacks.


That would be interesting, from a technical/professional perspective.

Any idea where those bombs were found?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 1:12:44 AM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Apparently there were ball bearings in there, so at least, from a technical point of view, not quite as crude, though I still shudder that officials are calling it a "sophisticated" attack.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


And could have easily been carried out by one man, this is reminisent of the Olympic bombing in Atlanta, right down to the type of bomb.
That was 17 years ago so I doubt the same person(s) did it but they seem to have had the same approach.


Eric Rudolph was the bomber in Atlanta, he was caught in 2003
and convicted in 2005 to four consecutive life sentences and is
imprisoned. He was also behind the Birmingham abortion clinic
bombings and others. His agenda was anti abortion, anti gay and
pro white supremacy.

My sense is its going to be a domestic homegrown whack job.
A foreign group would most likely be crowing by now. It could
be a homegrown foreign sympathizer of course. But Patriots Day,
Tax day, anniversary of Lincoln's death, Boston sounds more like
homegrown with home gripes. Or it could just be a lunatic.

Slate has a article up called Why the Conspiracy Theorists Will
Have a Tough Time with Boston. Conspiracy theorists meaning
the Alex Jones crowd etc.


_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud




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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 3:34:19 AM   
TheCristalDomme


Posts: 13
Joined: 4/15/2013
Status: offline 		Hell, it could be for any reason.

But here are a few points to consider:

The last mile of the marathon was dedicated to the victims of the Sandy Hook shootings - somebody taking issue with the gun law debate perhaps?

Patriots Day - well there are a whole host of possibilities there! AQ sympathy group/person?

Or is it the act of some random nutter?

Only time will tell I guess.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 4:48:14 AM   
Just0Plain0Mike


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Apparently there were ball bearings in there, so at least, from a technical point of view, not quite as crude, though I still shudder that officials are calling it a "sophisticated" attack.



So far it seems like a fairly low-tech, improvised claymore. It's hard to see what's so sophisticated about a weapon that's been around since the 60s, and that's if it was even directional and not just designed to spew a cloud of shrapnel.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 4:59:56 AM   
Just0Plain0Mike


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Maybe they have finally understood that when they open their mouths they are likely to find a tomahawk flying down their throats.


You do realize you're exhibiting some of the same prejudice LL waved around on the other thread, right?



Maybe I'm wrong, but this doesn't seem prejudiced to me. There was debate as to whether it was jihadists or domestic terrorists. It was stated that it was likely domestic, since the typical MO of jihadists is to claim responsibility fairly quickly. kdsub didn't say it was jihadists, just gave a possible explanation for why they might choose not to accept responsibility.

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RE: The Insensitive Boston Thread - 4/16/2013 5:02:31 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Apparently there were ball bearings in there, so at least, from a technical point of view, not quite as crude, though I still shudder that officials are calling it a "sophisticated" attack.



So far it seems like a fairly low-tech, improvised claymore. It's hard to see what's so sophisticated about a weapon that's been around since the 60s, and that's if it was even directional and not just designed to spew a cloud of shrapnel.

From when it went off, the timer may not have been working correctly, either.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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