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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 6:41:23 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: animaltrainer69

@Domken have you ever really been tortured.

No. Why would that be relevanbt?

The US tortured KSM a lot and all he did ws lie. It was only after we stopped torturing him that he gave us anything useful.

(in reply to animaltrainer69)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 6:51:04 PM   
animaltrainer69


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline 		@thompsonx, i know it works

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 7:58:21 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

FR

It was suggested above and elsewhere that primacy should be given to first extracting information from the kid to be sure there were no other accomplices or other attacks in the works.

Several avenues have been suggested:

Widely discussed is to question him without offering him Miranda. The Supreme Court has opined that in the case of imminent danger it is is okay to question a suspect without Miranda. The ACLU is crying foul.

It was also suggested, hopefully in jest, that he be tortured to secure the information.

Some Senators have cried out to have him declared an enemy combatant and turned over for Military trial.

Elsewhere, it was suggested he be turned over to the military temporarily. Not sure the advantage of that.

Do any of these alternatives appeal to you?

I do not understand how an American citizen committing a crime on home soil can be declared an enemy combatant. Is there some enabling law? I thought treason would cover that.


Have the feds or whoever they use interrogate him for his contacts and what not. Nothing he says at this point can be used in a court. If he is NOT an enemy combatant (being linked to international terrorist groups would make him one), read him his Miranda rights and get him his lawyer.

Information/intelligence first and then they can go for the confession and evidence.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 8:05:02 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


I do not understand how an American citizen committing a crime on home soil can be declared an enemy combatant. Is there some enabling law? I thought treason would cover that.


Well, that would be fine, IF they were American citizens. They aren't. Living here for a decade or more, doesn't make you a citizen, it makes you a resident. The brother had a conviction making him ineligible for citizenship, and there is nothing to indicate that the younger brother took the test within the year or so since turning 18.

That's something people are continually managing to forget.

THESE TWO ASSHOLES WERE NOT CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 8:11:38 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: animaltrainer69

@Domken have you ever really been tortured.


Have you?

I have.
It all started when I married Susan...........

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 8:17:05 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Linda here

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 8:26:23 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


I do not understand how an American citizen committing a crime on home soil can be declared an enemy combatant. Is there some enabling law? I thought treason would cover that.


Well, that would be fine, IF they were American citizens. They aren't. Living here for a decade or more, doesn't make you a citizen, it makes you a resident. The brother had a conviction making him ineligible for citizenship, and there is nothing to indicate that the younger brother took the test within the year or so since turning 18.

That's something people are continually managing to forget.

THESE TWO ASSHOLES WERE NOT CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.


The younger one is definitely a US citizen.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/19/report-boston-marathon-bombing-suspect-in-custody-second-at-large/

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 8:32:02 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Linda here

A rose by any other name......

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 8:33:45 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


I do not understand how an American citizen committing a crime on home soil can be declared an enemy combatant. Is there some enabling law? I thought treason would cover that.


Well, that would be fine, IF they were American citizens. They aren't. Living here for a decade or more, doesn't make you a citizen, it makes you a resident. The brother had a conviction making him ineligible for citizenship, and there is nothing to indicate that the younger brother took the test within the year or so since turning 18.

That's something people are continually managing to forget.

THESE TWO ASSHOLES WERE NOT CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.


Dzhokhar Tsarnaev — who took the oath of citizenship on the 11th anniversary of 9/11 — was the captain of his high school wrestling team, drank and smoked pot with friends, quoted Jay-Z and Paul McCartney lyrics, wore his baseball cap backwards and loved Twitter.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-friends-family-shocked-developments-article-1.1322536#ixzz2R46ZX6f0

And if that doesn't float your boat have a look at the wording of the 14th Amendment US Constitution:

"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

We extend the same rights of due process and equal protection to residents and visitors as persons. Unless you know of cases where non-citizens were not given a trial by jury.

So, mea culpa for using the word "citizen." It was misleading.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 4/20/2013 8:45:20 PM >

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 8:43:06 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

A rose by any other name......


Ah yes a rose she is…. She will draw you close with her fiery red beauty and heavenly fragrance…then draw blood with her thorns…oh how I loved her.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 8:56:16 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		I had not read the reports of him taking the citizenship test. I find it funny that they try to make a point of it being on the anniversary of 9/11, as though that was something this kid chose trying to attach significance. The tests are scheduled for 100s of people at a time.

I do have to wonder if he took the test under false pretenses given it was a mere 6 months ago. I also think we should revoke that citizenship.

I believe he should get a fair trial, although I doubt that is possible. Personally, I think this kid should answer all their questions when he is able, and then kill himself. There is no legitimate excuse for what he did, and I don't think we should have to pay the millions of dolllars for a trial (providing him with a lawyer, no less), then millions on the necessary appeals, all the while putting a roof over his head, feeding him three meals a day (at the cost of more millions), then the million it takes to execute him. He really wants to show remorse? Tell authorities everything you can about what you did, then kill yourself.

Harsh? Yep. Do I care? Nope.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 9:02:14 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		While you express a very popular sentiment here is the text of the Sixth Amendment:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence

His citizenship is irrelevent I think.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 4/20/2013 9:03:01 PM >

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 9:02:34 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

A rose by any other name......


Ah yes a rose she is…. She will draw you close with her fiery red beauty and heavenly fragrance…then draw blood with her thorns…oh how I loved her.

Butch


Seems everybody knows at least one chick like that.


"Roses"

[Verse Two - Andre 3000]
Caroline! See she's the reason for the word "bitch"
I hope she's speeding on the way to the club
Trying to hurry up to get to some
Baller or singer or somebody like that
And try to put on her makeup in the mirror
And crash, crash, crash.. into a ditch! (Just Playing!)
She needs a golden calculator to divide
The time it takes to look inside and realize that
Real guys go for real down to Mars girls, yeah!

[Chorus]

[Verse Three - Big Boi]
Well she's got a hotty body, but her attitude is potty
When I met her at a party she was hardly acting naughty
I said "Shorty, would you call me?"
She said "Pardon me, are you ballin'?"
I said "Darling, you sound like a prostitute pausing"
Oh so you're one them freaks, get geeked at the sight of an ATM receipt
But game been peeped, dropping names she's weak
Trickin' off this bitch is lost
Must take me for a geek a quick way to eat
A neat place sleep, a rent-a-car for a week, a trick for a treat
Now go on the raw sex, my AIDS test is flawless
Regardless, we don't want to get involved with all them lawyers
And judges just to hold grudges in a courtroom
I wanna see ya support bra not support you!

[Chorus]

Better come back down to Mars
Girl, quit chasin' cars
What happens when the dough get so low
Bitch, you ain't that fine
No way.. no way.. no way



_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 9:34:59 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
The brother had a conviction making him ineligible for citizenship,

The outspoken uncle in an interview said he thought the fact that the older brother beat up his previous girlfriend and was charged (so no citizenship) might have been the reason for the bombing.. He has a wife/girlfriend & child and he basically abandons them to do something as senseless as this..

One of the injured people in the hospital described the older brother pretty accurately as he looked in his eyes just before the bomb went off, that helped the police zero in on the 2 brothers on the videos..

I hope the younger brother answers the interrogators questions freely and doesnt refuse to do that..

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/20/2013 9:39:16 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Lol talk about thread drift...we are bad and deserve to be severely disciplined.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to blacksword404)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/21/2013 9:43:45 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

He has a wife/girlfriend & child and he basically abandons them to do something as senseless as this..

If it is an irrational act than he is not really culpable, so we have to assume it made sense to him. No?

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/21/2013 11:40:06 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

He has a wife/girlfriend & child and he basically abandons them to do something as senseless as this..

If it is an irrational act than he is not really culpable, so we have to assume it made sense to him. No?

well,.. he might have just been extremely arrogant and thought he would never be (a) found out (b) caught (c) killed..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/21/2013 11:51:07 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

He has a wife/girlfriend & child and he basically abandons them to do something as senseless as this..

If it is an irrational act than he is not really culpable, so we have to assume it made sense to him. No?

well,.. he might have just been extremely arrogant and thought he would never be (a) found out (b) caught (c) killed..

Probably all three. My only point was that what is irrational to victims may be rational to perpetrators. But then, people do hear alien voices in their heads.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/21/2013 12:41:41 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

They were not affiliated with AQ or any other terrorist organization formally.



That's not something that is known, Steve. The elder brother was out of the country for half a year, without any knowledge of what he was doing, or who he was interacting with.



well the world is full of crazy twists, like whoda thought hitler spent a couple years in britain before the war? LOL

very small world in certain circles.

_____________________________

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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/21/2013 4:49:51 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

well the world is full of crazy twists, like whoda thought hitler spent a couple years in britain before the war? LOL

very small world in certain circles.


Except he didnt. He spent six months in Liverpool in 1912-1913. Hardly your exaggerated "couple of years"


< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 4/21/2013 4:50:39 PM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 40
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