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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 11:02:46 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		The Department of Justice released a statement Monday saying that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the younger suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing, has been charged "with using a weapon of mass destruction against persons and property". The Associated Press reported he was charged while in the hospital.



Also Monday, White House press secretary Jay Carney said Tsarnaev "will not be treated as an enemy combatant."

Read full story here: http://politi.co/ZEi2Z4

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 11:15:55 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		Here are the Miranda rights issues that I am aware of in this case. Quite frankly, I'm surprised you weren't aware that this was an issue here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/19/miranda-rights-boston-bombing-suspect_n_3120333.html

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/295139-aclu-calls-for-miranda-rights-for-boston-bombing-suspect



The rights that the Miranda rights protects are the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and the Sixth Amendment right to an attorney. You need to re-read Miranda v. Arizona as I don't think you understand the constitutional grounding of the so-called Miranda "rights".



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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 11:18:27 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The Department of Justice released a statement Monday saying that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the younger suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing, has been charged "with using a weapon of mass destruction against persons and property". The Associated Press reported he was charged while in the hospital.



Also Monday, White House press secretary Jay Carney said Tsarnaev "will not be treated as an enemy combatant."

Read full story here: http://politi.co/ZEi2Z4

I wonder why the spree killer at the Aurora Theatre wasn't charged with a similar count. His firearms and bombs were not weapons of mass destruction?

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 11:25:21 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The Department of Justice released a statement Monday saying that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the younger suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing, has been charged "with using a weapon of mass destruction against persons and property". The Associated Press reported he was charged while in the hospital.



Also Monday, White House press secretary Jay Carney said Tsarnaev "will not be treated as an enemy combatant."

Read full story here: http://politi.co/ZEi2Z4

I wonder why the spree killer at the Aurora Theatre wasn't charged with a similar count. His firearms and bombs were not weapons of mass destruction?


I guess it's not mass destruction if you are shooting at people one at a time.....that would be sequential destruction, or some such thing......

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 1:50:23 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

Its too bad Russia didnt explain to the FBI how they came to that conclusion.. they might have been able to do more if they had known..


How do we know they didn't

according to a report the FBI did ask the Russians but got no answer back.. so unless the FBI are lying, i expect that to be true..

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 2:02:02 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The Department of Justice released a statement Monday saying that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the younger suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing, has been charged "with using a weapon of mass destruction against persons and property". The Associated Press reported he was charged while in the hospital.



What if, like Sadam Hussein, he didn't have any?

BTW When is a weapon a weapon of mass destruction and when is it just a weapon?

BTW Weren't the police and paramilitaries just a little over the top? From what I have read, both times they had one of the suspects surrounded and both times they had a ten minute one way gun fight. Why not a siege? After all, they had a fucking army big enough to take Canada surrounding both suspects and the second one from what I read, never fired a shot. Isn't all this Starship trooper stuff just another illustration of childish macho culture. A siege might have got both suspects alive with the police able to question them.

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 2:20:27 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
After all, they had a fucking army big enough to take Canada surrounding both suspects and the second one from what I read, never fired a shot. Isn't all this Starship trooper stuff just another illustration of childish macho culture. A siege might have got both suspects alive with the police able to question them.

they threw a pressure cooker bomb & homemade grenades at the cops.. i think a bomb would be considered a wmd (& since they acted together they were both guilty no matter who actually did the shooting and bombing etc).. remember that each brother had a bomb in their backpacks at the marathon.. the younger brother i do believe he had a gun, its been reported he tried to kill himself (the neck wound).. and it was the younger brother that killed his brother, not the cops, the cops were trying to handcuff the older brother and the younger brother drove at them and ran over his brother with the suv and dragged him for a bit, before he stopped and ran away on foot..

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 2:24:56 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
and it was the younger brother that killed his brother, not the cops, the cops were trying to handcuff the older brother and the younger brother drove at them and ran over his brother with the suv and dragged him for a bit, before he stopped and ran away on foot..


Still sounds as if the police ballsed up, maybe there were just too many of them.

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 2:33:04 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The Department of Justice released a statement Monday saying that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the younger suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing, has been charged "with using a weapon of mass destruction against persons and property". The Associated Press reported he was charged while in the hospital.



Also Monday, White House press secretary Jay Carney said Tsarnaev "will not be treated as an enemy combatant."

Read full story here: http://politi.co/ZEi2Z4

I wonder why the spree killer at the Aurora Theatre wasn't charged with a similar count. His firearms and bombs were not weapons of mass destruction?


I guess it's not mass destruction if you are shooting at people one at a time.....that would be sequential destruction, or some such thing......


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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 3:06:31 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

[...] i think a bomb would be considered a wmd [...]


WTF are you on about?

The yield was marginal; even the West plant explosion probably had less than one ton yield in TNT-equivalents.

For comparison, explosive weapons of mass destruction have yields ranging from 30 tons (thermobaric and tactical) up to 50 million tons (full yield warhead).

Don't even think about comparing a pimped-up firecracker with Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 3:51:20 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

[...] i think a bomb would be considered a wmd [...]


WTF are you on about?

The yield was marginal; even the West plant explosion probably had less than one ton yield in TNT-equivalents.

For comparison, explosive weapons of mass destruction have yields ranging from 30 tons (thermobaric and tactical) up to 50 million tons (full yield warhead).

Don't even think about comparing a pimped-up firecracker with Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



granted it doesnt have the same "impact" as flying an airplane into a high-rise office tower.. or a nuke going off.. or a truck bomb.. the word "bomb" does carry a certain emotional impact tho, even if the actual destruction isnt all that massive..

according to an American legal definition it does fit:
(2)the term “weapon of mass destruction” means—
(A)any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title; http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a
18 USC § 921 - Definitions
(4)The term “destructive device” means—
(A)any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas—
(i)bomb,
(ii)grenade http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 3:56:19 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

WTF are you on about?

The yield was marginal; even the West plant explosion probably had less than one ton yield in TNT-equivalents.

For comparison, explosive weapons of mass destruction have yields ranging from 30 tons (thermobaric and tactical) up to 50 million tons (full yield warhead).

Don't even think about comparing a pimped-up firecracker with Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



Im guessing it was labelled a WMD to give it more gravitas.


< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 4/22/2013 4:01:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 4:30:47 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

granted it doesnt have the same "impact" as flying an airplane into a high-rise office tower.. or a nuke going off.. or a truck bomb.. the word "bomb" does carry a certain emotional impact tho, even if the actual destruction isnt all that massive..


You just did it again. You compared the laidback fireworks of 9/11 and Oklahoma with the mass destruction of Hiroshima.

There's no comparison here. Zilch. None. Zip. Nada. Uh-uh. It's beyond a quantitative difference.

A modern nuclear weapon releases, in under a thousandth of a second, an amount of energy comparable to the total energy consumption of the North American continent for six months. And, by total, I mean every car, every stove, every heater, every train, every computer, all of it. 14 trillion kilowatt-hours. If you dropped every car in the US from low Earth orbit onto a single city, it wouldn't come close to a percent of this level of energy.

About five pounds of light were released by Hiroshima, a small WMD. Have you ever tried to weigh light?

There are literally shadows of people burnt into stone there, because the stone was bleached by the light and their bodies absorbed some of that light, in the process being heated to over 1800°F and turning to ash statues that were dispersed by the blast wave right after. A girl recounts finding her mother as an ash statue at the train station, and how her mother simply crumbled to dust when she touched her. A molten bicycle kept on moving a few meters while the wind carried off the soot that used to be the young boy riding it only seconds earlier, then it dropped to the ground to turn into a puddle of metal.

You can't even begin to comprehend the scale, or the depth, of the destruction wrought there that day.

That is mass destruction: it defies human comprehension altogether.

The Boston attacks were a glorified pipe bomb.

Your comparison is disgusting.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

P.S.: For your contemplation... this is the memory of a man sitting on the stairs of a bank.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Aswad -- 4/22/2013 4:31:51 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 4:33:23 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Im guessing it was labelled a WMD to give it more gravitas.


As do I, Politesub, and it shall not stand. Period.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 4:42:04 PM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

After all, they had a fucking army big enough to take Canada surrounding both suspects


We're bigger than the US. We also have beavers, and we're not afraid to use them.

As for the WMD definition, it sounds like a lot of latitude was applied to create an influential sound byte. I expect to hear that the chocolate rations have gone up some time within the next ten years.

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 4:47:13 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Hey Remote, I see they have just foiled a planned attack on Canadas trains.

I`m shocked, Canada has trains.......Who else knew ?

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 4:52:09 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		FR

The death count at Hiroshima is estimated at 130,000 people (not counting people who later died from longer term radiation effects, such as from leukemia, etc.)

No one should be calling anything that kills 3 people a WMD. I think it is important to keep scale in mind here, otherwise everything becomes newspeak....

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 4:53:06 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

granted it doesnt have the same "impact" as flying an airplane into a high-rise office tower.. or a nuke going off.. or a truck bomb.. the word "bomb" does carry a certain emotional impact tho, even if the actual destruction isnt all that massive..


You just did it again. You compared the laidback fireworks of 9/11 and Oklahoma with the mass destruction of Hiroshima.

There's no comparison here. Zilch. None. Zip. Nada. Uh-uh. It's beyond a quantitative difference.

A modern nuclear weapon releases, in under a thousandth of a second, an amount of energy comparable to the total energy consumption of the North American continent for six months. And, by total, I mean every car, every stove, every heater, every train, every computer, all of it. 14 trillion kilowatt-hours. If you dropped every car in the US from low Earth orbit onto a single city, it wouldn't come close to a percent of this level of energy.

About five pounds of light were released by Hiroshima, a small WMD. Have you ever tried to weigh light?

There are literally shadows of people burnt into stone there, because the stone was bleached by the light and their bodies absorbed some of that light, in the process being heated to over 1800°F and turning to ash statues that were dispersed by the blast wave right after. A girl recounts finding her mother as an ash statue at the train station, and how her mother simply crumbled to dust when she touched her. A molten bicycle kept on moving a few meters while the wind carried off the soot that used to be the young boy riding it only seconds earlier, then it dropped to the ground to turn into a puddle of metal.

You can't even begin to comprehend the scale, or the depth, of the destruction wrought there that day.

That is mass destruction: it defies human comprehension altogether.

The Boston attacks were a glorified pipe bomb.

Your comparison is disgusting.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

P.S.: For your contemplation... this is the memory of a man sitting on the stairs of a bank.





Just out of interest when does a bomb or similar device become a weapon of mass destruction? 9/11 was just laidback fireworks but thousands died. I know it wasn't on the same scale as Japan but...... just wondering?

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RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 5:00:29 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

The death count at Hiroshima is estimated at 130,000 people (not counting people who later died from longer term radiation effects, such as from leukemia, etc.)

No one should be calling anything that kills 3 people a WMD. I think it is important to keep scale in mind here, otherwise everything becomes newspeak....


Hiya FTP.

Yes I fully agree, scale is imperative.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Justice in Boston - 4/22/2013 5:13:27 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

Just out of interest when does a bomb or similar device become a weapon of mass destruction? 9/11 was just laidback fireworks but thousands died. I know it wasn't on the same scale as Japan but...... just wondering?


9/11 resulted in 2,996 deaths (including the hijackers and all planes, WTC and Pentagon). To say it was not on the same scale as Japan is an understatement to say the least. The 130,000 figure is ONLY for Hiroshima. Nagasaki had its own death count that was estimated to be 65,00-70,000, so total for the nuclear bombs in Japan is approx 200,000.

9/11 resulted in 1.5% of the deaths of the atomic bombs in Japan...we are seriously not talking about the same scale at all.

In addition, while not the result of WMD, I think one also has to consider genocide in human history - Holocaust (6 million), Armenian genocide (1.5 million), Soviet Ukranian genocide (3 million) just to mention some of the top ones.

It truly is an insult to so many peoples from history to consider 3 deaths a "mass destruction".........



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