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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 10:40:32 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
why hasnt the Texas explosion warranted a thread???
I was actually sitting here thinking about that very question this morning. Not from the political aspect because, even with safeguards in place, it's still entirely possible that human error can cause this type of accident.

However, with all eyes turned to Boston, it seems like we (the general public) have barely glanced to Texas. Almost as though we barely gave those folks the attention that they deserved.


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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 10:51:19 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Mine too Lady P, Ive been out most of the last few days so havent poked my nose in as much as normal...The deaths and injuries are a tragedy, the devastation huge..the questions many, but because it isnt political or religious , YET...seems to make it less important to most of those who responded.
I dont feel it should be any less important. But somehow it was largely ignored..

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 1:31:19 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Next thing you know, you'll be saying that the plant explosion is the same as the deaths caused by Hitler Mugabe.


The BBC reported that the West, TX plant neither had a licence, nor qualified for one. Lucylastic says AP reported several safety violations, some of which are beyond any excuse. If this is true, then we're talking about a level of criminal negligence that is on par with the bombings (but not strictly speaking terrorism, since the purpose was financial gain). The scope of the accident was absolutely forseeable, and they went ahead anyway, with a blatant disregard for lives they knew would be lost at some point. It borders on intent.

Incidentally, a terrorist could've struck that plant with a car bomb and triggered an even more serious explosion; they knew that.

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 1:38:28 PM   
FunCouple5280


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Status: offline 		Shhhhh! Don't give anyone ideas!!!! Then again not quite the target the marathon is

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 1:47:05 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Shhhhh! Don't give anyone ideas!!!! Then again not quite the target the marathon is

why isnt it the target the marathon is? if they hit small cities, towns it shows Americans that no where is "safe" from them... imo, it actually would strike more fear into people.. jmo..

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 2:05:12 PM   
angelikaJ


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Status: offline 		I had heard 2 things last week and have not heard anything to contradict:

1) The plant was cited in the 80s for safety violations and had not been inspected since.
2) The explosion was caused from the anhydrous ammonia in one of the tanks (which was being stored under pressure).
The ammonia was not itself flammable but the heat from the fire caused it to expand and then the expansion caused it to explode.

I am not attached to this information being right; it is just what I heard when NPR covered the story.

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 2:47:02 PM   
VideoAdminChi


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A post was removed as was a string of replies and quotes. Please do not make other posters the topic.

I encourage someone to give the explosion in Texas its own thread. Feel free to repost what you've said here.

Thanks,

Chi

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 2:51:28 PM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi

FR,

A post was removed as was a string of replies and quotes. Please do not make other posters the topic.

I encourage someone to give the explosion in Texas its own thread. Feel free to repost what you've said here.

Thanks,

Chi

There is a new thread in O/T:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4429571/tm.htm

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 3:02:52 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Next thing you know, you'll be saying that the plant explosion is the same as the deaths caused by Hitler Mugabe.

The BBC reported that the West, TX plant neither had a licence, nor qualified for one. Lucylastic says AP reported several safety violations, some of which are beyond any excuse. If this is true, then we're talking about a level of criminal negligence that is on par with the bombings (but not strictly speaking terrorism, since the purpose was financial gain). The scope of the accident was absolutely forseeable, and they went ahead anyway, with a blatant disregard for lives they knew would be lost at some point. It borders on intent.
Incidentally, a terrorist could've struck that plant with a car bomb and triggered an even more serious explosion; they knew that.
IWYW,
— Aswad.


The difference is that the intention of the TX plant wasn't death and destruction.

The intention of the bombers was death and destruction.

I'm not saying management isn't at fault, but if you have information that they intended the explosion(s) and the damages, then, by all means, show it.


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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 4:07:20 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

There's this thing called an "accident," see? Typically, the difference between an "accident" and a crime has to do with intent, see? Unless you have some sort of knowledge that the W. TX plant was intentionally blown up, any equivalence between the accident and the Boston bombings, etc. are just dead ass wrong.


You neatly overlooked criminal negligence. There is no evidence one way or another that this was the case, but the firm involved have a lax safety record.

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 4:11:32 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

There's this thing called an "accident," see? Typically, the difference between an "accident" and a crime has to do with intent, see? Unless you have some sort of knowledge that the W. TX plant was intentionally blown up, any equivalence between the accident and the Boston bombings, etc. are just dead ass wrong.


You neatly overlooked criminal negligence. There is no evidence one way or another that this was the case, but the firm involved have a lax safety record.


No sprinklers, no fire wall, way too much volatile chemicals stored in inadequate pressure vessels. That sounds like negligence to me.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 4:17:23 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Exactly Ken. Not all industrial accidents are that at all. Many are a direct result of cost cutting and taking shortcuts.

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 6:55:36 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Exactly Ken. Not all industrial accidents are that at all. Many are a direct result of cost cutting and taking shortcuts.


But, even taking that into account (which I'm not saying the firm shouldn't have consequences), it was still not the intention to cause death and destruction.

I'm not saying there is no criminal activity in the West TX explosion. I'm saying that intentionally blowing up a bomb in an effort to kill, damage, destroy and/or maim, is not the same as the industrial accident that happened.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 8:07:46 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Exactly Ken. Not all industrial accidents are that at all. Many are a direct result of cost cutting and taking shortcuts.


But, even taking that into account (which I'm not saying the firm shouldn't have consequences), it was still not the intention to cause death and destruction.

I'm not saying there is no criminal activity in the West TX explosion. I'm saying that intentionally blowing up a bomb in an effort to kill, damage, destroy and/or maim, is not the same as the industrial accident that happened.

The managers and owners had to know how volatile the situation was and they took no action to prevent it. The number of deaths and injuries plus the property damage seems to me to dwarf what happened in Boston and the penalties should be worse as well.

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 8:35:40 PM   
tomguy


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Status: offline 		I thought we hated guns, what happened to the school shooting outrage? Do we really have enough hate for kitchen wares as well? We're in serious danger of spreading ourselves too thin here...

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/22/2013 9:49:11 PM   
tazzygirl


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And yet many have called for less government. This seems a case where more government was needed.

And now they want federal aid?

Ted Cruz, Bill Flores Asked For Federal Aid After Texas Explosion, But Voted Against Sandy Relief



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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/23/2013 1:16:25 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

But, even taking that into account (which I'm not saying the firm shouldn't have consequences), it was still not the intention to cause death and destruction.


No, the intention was to make money by doing something that necessarily, inevitably leads to death and destruction (it's just a matter of time, when you do it that way, and they knew that). Which is pretty much akin to taking out a contract on your neighbours (indeed, your whole neighbourhood) for profit, except with a clause that it shouldn't be tomorrow, but rather at some unspecified time in the future. So, yeah, in terms of outcomes and motives, I'm inclined to say they're in trouble. Legally, though, they'll probably walk.

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_____________________________

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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/23/2013 1:29:51 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Shhhhh! Don't give anyone ideas!!!! Then again not quite the target the marathon is

why isnt it the target the marathon is? if they hit small cities, towns it shows Americans that no where is "safe" from them... imo, it actually would strike more fear into people.. jmo..


From my point of view, terrorism only strikes resolve into people. Whenever we have had bombings here in the UK, people just got on with life in order not to let terrorist scum win.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/23/2013 4:48:36 AM   
calamitysandra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I'm not saying there is no criminal activity in the West TX explosion. I'm saying that intentionally blowing up a bomb in an effort to kill, damage, destroy and/or maim, is not the same as the industrial accident that happened.



If what we hear about the disregarding of safety regulations at this plant is true, I am disinclined to call what happened an accident.

Now, in light of this, if I would want to make a comparison, I would have to compare killing for profit (and if what we hear is true, then ownership and managers of the plant would have had to know it would kill) with killing for ideology (only if what is inferred about the Boston bombing is correct).


< Message edited by calamitysandra -- 4/23/2013 4:49:44 AM >

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RE: Boston: Enough is Enough! - 4/23/2013 5:50:40 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
From my point of view, terrorism only strikes resolve into people. Whenever we have had bombings here in the UK, people just got on with life in order not to let terrorist scum win.


Does your media focus on these events as heavily as the US media does? To a certain degree, its easier to get on with life if its not broadcast everywhere 24/7 and analyzed to death.. I actually get more news here first from the forums than I do from other outlets.. thats is how I learned of the bombing in the first place, then seen it online (usually yahoo) and on tv (when I turned it on).. I try to limit the "news" I get cuz many times its just too much.. during the manhunt, programs were cancelled due to "breaking news" on so many channels.. ugh..

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