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Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 9:17:53 AM   
Fightdirecto


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"Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings" by Mark Juergensmeyer on the website, *Religion Dispatches*:

quote:

Now that the Boston bombers have been identified - one killed and the other brother captured - the next question is why? Why did they do it, and did religion play a role?

As soon as it became clear that the Tsarnaev brothers were Muslim and that Tamerlan, the older of the two, had become pious in recent years, commentators began to point to religion as the culprit. Once again, they implied, an act of violence has occurred with the specter of radical Islam hovering in the background. Or so it may initially have appeared.

But I suspect the truth is more complicated than that.

THE BOSTON CASE APPEARS TO BE SIMILAR TO MANY OF THE OTHER LONE WOLF TERRORIST ATTACKS IN THE UNITED STATES IN RECENT YEARS. Before Boston, there was the December 2012 Newtown massacre by Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook Elementary School; the July 2012 movie theater shootings by James Holmes in Aurora, Colorado; the August 2012 attack on the Milwaukee Sikh Gurdwara by Wade Michael Page; the 2010 Times Square bombing attempt by Faisal Shahzad; and the 1996 Atlanta Olympic park bombing by Eric Robert Rudolph, to name a few.

SOME OF THESE WERE COMMITTED BY CHRISTIANS, SOME BY MUSLIMS, AND SOME BY THOSE WITH NO PARTICULAR RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION AT ALL. IN ALMOST ALL CASES, THOUGH, THESE HAVE BEEN INSTANCES WHERE LONELY, ALIENATED INDIVIDUALS HAVE RAGED AGAINST A SOCIETY THAT THEY THOUGHT HAD ABANDONED THEM.

These lone wolf events are different from other instances in recent years where organized radical religious groups such as the Christian militia or a Muslim jihadi organizations have plotted attacks and recruited participants to be involved in them. IN THE LONE WOLF CASES, RELIGIOUS IDEAS, WHEN THEY APPEARED AT ALL, WERE MORE OF AN EXCUSE THAN A REASON FOR THE VIOLENCE.

The Boston incident seems to be a case in point. Though the details of the background and motives of the Tsarnaev brothers aren’t entirely clear, religion in the Boston bomber case also seems to be a secondary aspect of their motivations. LIKE THE OTHER CASES IN RECENT YEARS, IT IS AN EXPRESSION OF THE RAGE OF ANGRY YOUNG MEN.

SPECIFICALLY, IN THE CASE OF THE TSARNAEV BROTHERS, IT IS THE EXPRESSION OF THE RAGE OF ONE ANGRY YOUNG MAN ASSISTED BY HIS YOUNGER BROTHER.....


Still, for Tamarlan the notion of being a part of a great battle seemed appealing.

Real wars can sound tremendously exciting to such people. The imagined wars of great religious conflict are more than exhilarating - offering the promise of opportunity, of playing an ennobling role within that cosmic war. Perhaps most directly, such imagined wars provide a justification for doing something destructive to the very society that they think has shunned them.

Hence the defense of a religion provides a cover for violence. It gives moral license to something horrible that the perpetrators had longed to do, to show the world how powerful they really could be, and to demonstrate their importance in one terminal moment of violent glory. RELIGION DOESN’T CAUSE THE VIOLENCE, IT’S THE EXCUSE FOR IT.

ONE DOES NOT NEED RELIGION TO DO THIS, OF COURSE. AFTER ALL, ADAM LANZA SHOT UP THE NEWTOWN SCHOOL AND JOHN HOLMES ATTACKED THE AURORA MOVIE THEATER CROWD WITHOUT A NOD TOWARDS RELIGION.

BUT IN THE CASE OF ATLANTA OLYMPIC PARK BOMBER ERIC ROBERT RUDOLPH AND THE SIKH GURDWARA ATTACKER WADE MICHAEL PAGE, THEIR MOTIVATIONS APPEAR TO HAVE INCLUDED THE DEFENSE OF CHRISTIAN SOCIETY. ATTEMPTED TIMES SQUARE BOMBER FAISAL SHAHZAD AND TAMERLAN TSARNAEV BOTH JUSTIFIED THEIR ACTS OF RAGE AS A DEFENSE OF ISLAMIC SOCIETY.

IT’S NOT RIGHT, OF COURSE, TO BLAME CHRISTIANITY FOR THE ACTS OF ANGRY YOUNG MEN WHO ARE CHRISTIAN - EVEN WHEN THEY CLAIM TO BE DEFENDING THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY. SIMILARLY, ISLAM IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANGRY MUSLIMS.


Sadly, by evoking faith as an element of their bloody rage they compound their crimes, making religion yet another victim of their awful violence.


The author, Mark Juergensmeyer, is Professor of Sociology and Director of Global and International Studies at the University of California, Santa Barbara and the winner of the Grawemeyer Award for his book *Terror in the Mind of God*.

Religion Dispatches

Timothy "Science is my god" McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, was an avowed atheist.

Should we blame the practice of atheism for the Oklahoma City bombing?

NO.

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 9:40:35 AM   
LafayetteLady


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While I don't disagree with the theory the man is putting forth, it is a bit early to be discussing whether or not there was some direction from outside sources in the Boston case.

Also, the man is making assumptions about the older brother when he couldn't possibly know what he was thinking, and of course, the bias that exists based on the publication.

Still it is an interesting theory.

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 10:01:48 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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The more I learn about Islam, the more I dislike it. With Islam comes Sharia Law, where women who are raped are whipped or executed because they don't have the several male witnesses required to prove rape. Women are required to cover themselves to avoid being a temptation to men, which IMO translates to men not being required to take personal responsibility for their own actions. Then there's the commandment to kill those who aren't into Islam or those who leave Islam. Even in countries with Sunni Muslims, the number of honor killings is high. Islam seems to have a very evil culture associated with it. That being said, many years ago, Christians did a lot of stupid things like burning "witches." But most Christians stopped being violent a long time ago. The Westboro Baptist Church consists of verbally abusive radicals, but at least they aren't blowing people up. For the most part, I'm pretty liberal on most issues, but I admit to being prejudice toward Islam.

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 10:19:59 AM   
johnsmith13


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it is my belief that the two biggest evils in the world are religion and politics. all of the wars have been waged for and by the leaders of these two evils

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 10:25:22 AM   
FunCouple5280


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FD---

I heard on NBC this morning that the 19yo said the reason they did it was 'religious zeal'

So, why shouldn't I blame religion?

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 10:32:10 AM   
Moonhead


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For the same reason that Marilyn Manson didn't get locked up when a brace of tooled up inadequates tried to make out that the Columbine shooting was his fault rather than theirs, I'd have said.

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 10:35:19 AM   
FunCouple5280


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The kids themselves didn't say they did it casue of manson, religious wackos here tried to blame it on manson. I was in high school then, in the same town here in CO, one of the victims was a classmate in grammar school of mine, I am all too aware of what happened. The religious hand ringing was despicable.....I am pointing out that this kid in Boston claimed it was religious zeal, therefor there might be something to be said for that.

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 10:39:25 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The more I learn about Islam, the more I dislike it. With Islam comes Sharia Law, where women who are raped are whipped or executed because they don't have the several male witnesses required to prove rape. Women are required to cover themselves to avoid being a temptation to men, which IMO translates to men not being required to take personal responsibility for their own actions. Then there's the commandment to kill those who aren't into Islam or those who leave Islam. Even in countries with Sunni Muslims, the number of honor killings is high. Islam seems to have a very evil culture associated with it. That being said, many years ago, Christians did a lot of stupid things like burning "witches." But most Christians stopped being violent a long time ago. The Westboro Baptist Church consists of verbally abusive radicals, but at least they aren't blowing people up. For the most part, I'm pretty liberal on most issues, but I admit to being prejudice toward Islam.

Most of that stuff isn't actually sharia.

Sharia is equivalent to the many rules laid down in Leviticus (many of which call for execution for any violation).

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 10:41:52 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

The kids themselves didn't say they did it casue of manson, religious wackos here tried to blame it on manson. I was in high school then, in the same town here in CO, one of the victims was a classmate in grammar school of mine, I am all too aware of what happened. The religious hand ringing was despicable.....I am pointing out that this kid in Boston claimed it was religious zeal, therefor there might be something to be said for that.

Fair enough, but a prick like that will use any excuse to try to dodge responsibility, imo.
(The wanker in Boston, not the shit David Bowie tribute act.)

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 11:13:05 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Should we blame the practice of atheism for the Oklahoma City bombing?

I am well aware that it is social and economic conditions that drive people into the arms of fundamentalist ideologies. But it is the ideology that determines how they will behave. When and if Radical Atheists start a bloody jihad, we'll blame Radical Atheism. When and if Radical Christians start a bloody jihad, we'll blame Radical Christianity. When and if Radical Jews start a bloody jihad, we'll blame Radical Judaism.

Meanwhile, this one's on Radical Islam. Thanks for playing.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/23/2013 11:24:04 AM >

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/23/2013 5:27:22 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
THE BOSTON CASE APPEARS TO BE SIMILAR TO MANY OF THE OTHER LONE WOLF TERRORIST ATTACKS IN THE UNITED STATES IN RECENT YEARS. Before Boston, there was the December 2012 Newtown massacre by Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook Elementary School; the July 2012 movie theater shootings by James Holmes in Aurora, Colorado; the August 2012 attack on the Milwaukee Sikh Gurdwara by Wade Michael Page; the 2010 Times Square bombing attempt by Faisal Shahzad; and the 1996 Atlanta Olympic park bombing by Eric Robert Rudolph, to name a few.

thats a unsubstantiated claim. tha older brother was warned about twice by tha ruskies probably after spending time in tha chechen area. very reasonable to think he was recruited by jihadists.

quote:

RELIGION DOESN’T CAUSE THE VIOLENCE, IT’S THE EXCUSE FOR IT.

ONE DOES NOT NEED RELIGION TO DO THIS, OF COURSE. AFTER ALL, ADAM LANZA SHOT UP THE NEWTOWN SCHOOL AND JOHN HOLMES ATTACKED THE AURORA MOVIE THEATER CROWD WITHOUT A NOD TOWARDS RELIGION. ...

Sadly, by evoking faith as an element of their bloody rage they compound their crimes, making religion yet another victim of their awful violence.

yup ya dont need religion to kill but its a fallacy to say that proves its never at blame. tho i'm religious too i still cant deny tha reality that religion can inculcate hatred & that some religions are worse than others for tha phenomenon.

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/24/2013 12:50:01 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

These lone wolf events are different from other instances in recent years where organized radical religious groups such as the Christian militia or a Muslim jihadi organizations have plotted attacks and recruited participants to be involved in them. IN THE LONE WOLF CASES, RELIGIOUS IDEAS, WHEN THEY APPEARED AT ALL, WERE MORE OF AN EXCUSE THAN A REASON FOR THE VIOLENCE.


I am far from convinced that it is useful to make much of the differences between 'lone wolf' attacks and more organised attacks carried out by extremist groups.

The author of the OP is on the right track when it is argued that religion is an excuse rather than a cause of many of these atrocities. Terrorism is not something that people, religious or otherwise, randomly pick. Where terrorism is prevalent, there exist easily identifiable social and political reasons for its existence, the most common of these is that the community with which the terrorist or terrorist group identifies is under attack from outside malignant forces.

Terrorism is a reaction to real, pre-exisiting problems that usually is deployed as a last resort - terrorism operates where there is a failure of politics to resolve these problems. I believe grasping this point is imperative if the issue of terrorism is going to be understood. Understanding terrorism and why it happens is an essential pre-requisite to solving the problem.

A quick glance at the operational areas of major terrorist groups in recent years confirms this claim eg. Ireland, Palestine, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Chechnya, Iraq ..... In each case, the terrorist's community was perceived to be under attack or occupation by hostile foreign forces. Religious or political ideologies enter the picture as they offer analyses that make sense to the people under attack, and solutions that appeal to the same group. It doesn't matter whether these analyses and solutions make sense to outsiders, there is no need for them to do so. All that matters is that they make sense to the aggrieved parties.

Ultimately, this perspective is an optimistic one as it offers as solution to the problem of terrorism and a practical strategy to marginalise terrorist groups and ideologies. By focusing on addressing the underlying political issues as part of an overall response to terrorism, it is possible to separate the terrorists and their support base, which leads inevitably to the demise of terrorists as a danger to other people and as an active player in the power politics of the region in question.



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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/24/2013 1:14:55 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
the community with which the terrorist or terrorist group identifies is under attack from outside malignant forces.

I agree that the Boston bombers were under attack by the people that allowed them to enter their country and that fed them and that provided them with housing and with jobs and with the opportunity to study and with pressure cooking pans and nails and ball bearings.


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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/24/2013 8:10:47 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
Timothy "Science is my god" McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, was an avowed atheist.

Your pants are on fire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
McVeigh was raised Roman Catholic.[85] During his childhood, he and his father attended Mass regularly.[86] McVeigh was confirmed at the Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York, in 1985.[87] In a 1996 interview, McVeigh professed belief in "a God", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs."[85] In the 2001 book American Terrorist, McVeigh stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion.[88][89] In June 2001, a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News identifying as agnostic.[90] Before his execution, McVeigh took the Catholic sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick.[91]


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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/24/2013 2:30:47 PM   
cordeliasub


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Criminals may blame their behavior on religion, but I have to say I think most of the time it's just another way to escape personal responsibility.

My cynical answer would be it depends on the religion and who is doing the blaming ;)

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/24/2013 3:02:09 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Ultimately, this perspective is an optimistic one as it offers as solution to the problem of terrorism and a practical strategy to marginalise terrorist groups and ideologies. By focusing on addressing the underlying political issues as part of an overall response to terrorism, it is possible to separate the terrorists and their support base, which leads inevitably to the demise of terrorists as a danger to other people and as an active player in the power politics of the region in question.

Your analysis is spot on but I don't share your optimism. Political terrorism is more often than not a response to oppression by an asymmetrical power, either internal or external. In almost every case terrorism leads to an anti-terror response by the greater power. The 'oppressing' power feels injured and feels the need to exercise a response from strength, which only makes matters worse. Has there ever been a case when the greater power did not attempt to crush the terrorists? Either the rebellion is suppressed or marginalized, or the rebels gain some degree of authenticity and are able to secure help from other powers.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 4/24/2013 3:38:09 PM >

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/25/2013 1:43:58 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Ultimately, this perspective is an optimistic one as it offers as solution to the problem of terrorism and a practical strategy to marginalise terrorist groups and ideologies. By focusing on addressing the underlying political issues as part of an overall response to terrorism, it is possible to separate the terrorists and their support base, which leads inevitably to the demise of terrorists as a danger to other people and as an active player in the power politics of the region in question.

Your analysis is spot on but I don't share your optimism. Political terrorism is more often than not a response to oppression by an asymmetrical power, either internal or external. In almost every case terrorism leads to an anti-terror response by the greater power. The 'oppressing' power feels injured and feels the need to exercise a response from strength, which only makes matters worse. Has there ever been a case when the greater power did not attempt to crush the terrorists? Either the rebellion is suppressed or marginalized, or the rebels gain some degree of authenticity and are able to secure help from other powers.


Yes. Repression is usually the first response by the State to any challenge to its monopoly on political violence.

This is unhelpful, as it is usually the worst possible response eg the US's Patriot Act, or similar legislation here in Australia or the UK. This response, particularly in situations where a foreign military occupation/attack is central to the issue, is a victory for the terrorists. A good example of this is the Gaza blockade, which allegedly seeks to bring down Hamas' rule over Gaza but has in fact strengthened it. Escalating the repression, as in Cast Lead or the recent Israeli attacks on Gaza, exacerbated this trend allowing Hamas to position itself as Gaza's defenders against the Israeli onslaughts. Domestically it is difficult to understand why one trashing Americans’ existing freedoms serves to protect them from external attack.

One measure of just how unsuccessful repressive responses are is the number of ex-terrorists who have emerged from their struggles as 'fathers' of a nation freed from colonial rule, or international statesmen. Think Mandela, McGuiness & Adams, just about any Israeli Prime Minister between 1949 up to Netanyahoo, Kenya's Kenyatta, Mugabe, ......it’s a long long list. A repressive or exclusively military response from the State hands victory to the terrorists on a platter.

Another measure is to consider those counter-terrorist campaigns that have been successful and those that have failed. Israel has chosen a purely military response for over half a century and it still has a 'terrorist' problem. The UK initially tried a similar response in Ulster, recognised it was failing and changed to a political response which eventually led the Good Friday peace agreement.

Successful counter-insurgency campaigns feature political action to address the underlying causes of popular discontent and include a security response that relies on existing powers and agencies. The security response is seen as a policing matter rather than a military matter. The security reponse goes hand-in-hand with the political strategy. This strategy is designed to "win hearts and minds", driving a wedge between the insurgents and the popular base of support an insurgency must have in order to succeed.

For Americans considering these issues in the wake of Boston, the question is does the USA wish to pursue a considered strategy designed to achieve eliminate terrorism, or does it wish to pursue a military response which might be emotionally more satisfying but whose outcome is doomed to defeat.


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/25/2013 1:46:51 AM >


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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/25/2013 2:01:53 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
(...) act of violence has occurred with the specter of radical Islam hovering in the background (...) But I suspect the truth is more complicated than that. (...) RELIGION DOESN’T CAUSE THE VIOLENCE, IT’S THE EXCUSE FOR IT.
This does not sound more complicated as the mentioned position. It sounds less complicated: "hovering in the background" is not the same as "causing" and therefore is more subtle/complex as "not causing".

As for me, "I suspect the truth is more complicated than that". But for real, this time.

Why should religion, which causes so many things in so many ways, both positive and negative... magically not cause violence sometimes? Accepting that religion is able to cause art and science and tolerance... but saying it never causes violence... is IMHO an extraordinary assert needing extraordinary proof. I have not seen such proof in the article. Nor anywhere else.

But I have seen such extraordinary assert often. Proposed by people who often think that the "true meaning" of any important religion is the "good" one, the one according current humanistic morality (human rights, freedom...) and blatantly ignoring all other aspects as "corruption" of the "true religion" which is actually "one common message" and "inherent to mankind" and on and on and on... A naive ideology (at best) which pretends to save religion from the dirty reality of religion practice. So that is can still be defended as something positive after all the blood and suffering.

Religion never causes violence? Ok - any proof, please?

Best regards.

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 4/25/2013 2:10:56 AM >


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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/25/2013 3:54:48 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Timothy "Science is my god" McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, was an avowed atheist.

Your pants are on fire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
McVeigh was raised Roman Catholic.[85] During his childhood, he and his father attended Mass regularly.[86] McVeigh was confirmed at the Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York, in 1985.[87] In a 1996 interview, McVeigh professed belief in "a God", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs."[85] In the 2001 book American Terrorist, McVeigh stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion.[88][89] In June 2001, a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News identifying as agnostic.[90] Before his execution, McVeigh took the Catholic sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick.[91]


Just helping ya out with your quote there.

K.

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RE: Don’t Blame Religion for Boston Bombings - 4/25/2013 3:55:54 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
For Americans considering these issues in the wake of Boston, the question is does the USA wish to pursue a considered strategy designed to achieve eliminate terrorism, or does it wish to pursue a military response which might be emotionally more satisfying but whose outcome is doomed to defeat.


How do you eliminate terrorism when your existence is part of the reason you are being terrorized? We're currently trying to figure out wtf led to Boston and how we can prevent it in the future. And, if the US support for Israel is a driving factor in our being subject to terror attacks, well, that's another area we're not likely to end, leading to fewer options for us.

As far as I've read, there is no military action being planned against Chechnya or any Islamic-led State. So, a military response isn't likely to be forthcoming.




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