RE: Submission granted

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littlewonder -> RE: Submission granted (4/29/2013 8:33:07 PM)
My nickname growing up was prissy and pissy. Seriously. People thought that I was one or the other when in reality I was just extremely shy when I was young. I still am to a point but nowhere near like I was when I was really young. The only time I wasn't shy was when I was drunk. People still call me that who don't even know me. I'll be walking down the street and people will stop me and tell me to "smile" and think I'm angry or stuck up or something. In reality, I'm usually just keeping to myself, deep in thought while I'm walking or something similar. And yeah, I think one of the reasons it didn't work out between the ex Dom and me was that I am smarter than him for the most part. He was smart about putting things together and such but I am the bookworm, can talk about politics, religion, etc...I would try to dumb down but it always made me feel like I really was stupid and I hated that feeling. I would say the majority of men I've dated in my life wanted me to dumb down for them. I would fake it for awhile but I could never make it a permanent change. Thankfully with Master he doesn't expect me to dumb down. He actually requires just the opposite. And believe me, to keep up with his intelligence, I have to be just the opposite of dumbing down! I'd never keep up with him otherwise.

theshytype -> RE: Submission granted (4/29/2013 9:07:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder Thankfully with Master he doesn't expect me to dumb down. He actually requires just the opposite. And believe me, to keep up with his intelligence, I have to be just the opposite of dumbing down! I'd never keep up with him otherwise. Yes! If I'm not with someone who makes me want to be a better me, I just don't see the point.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Submission granted (4/30/2013 4:24:11 AM)
my sweetie occasionally gets to pat me on the head. Most recently because i didn't know what size engine was in my car. The car parts store man about fell on the floor laughing after he did that. and thats about the only type of condescension that i would tolerate from ANYONE! Dominance isn't condescension - its dominance! I am not less than my dominant. I am different but equal - and for this, that phrase actually works.

Kana -> RE: Submission granted (4/30/2013 1:07:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: theshytype quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder Thankfully with Master he doesn't expect me to dumb down. He actually requires just the opposite. And believe me, to keep up with his intelligence, I have to be just the opposite of dumbing down! I'd never keep up with him otherwise. Yes! If I'm not with someone who makes me want to be a better me, I just don't see the point. My one big flaw when it comes to these types of things is that while I'm not racist or classist or genderist or any of the other ists out there, I am hopelessly and helplessly an intellectual elitist. As in, stupid people drive me nuts. Now I'm not talking about someone who is handicapped, that's a whole different ballgame. But some people are just plain idiots. It ain't that they don't have brains, they just don't use em (Chortles-They can be found places like P/R) or they grab onto wingnut shit or get an idea in their head or see the world only through one narrow lens or just talktalktalk doing nothing but spouting moronically imbecilic nonsense, yeah, they kill me. Now part of this is maybe because I'm ADD as all get out, and I have little innate tolerance for slow folk, but maaaan, I cannot express how idiocy drives me bonkers. Like, and trust me here, college drove me insane. I could not believe how ridiculous some of the people there were. Aaarrrgggh, makes me wanna pull my hair out just thinking about it. So it's a good thing she's smart (Way way smarter than this 106 IQ boy), because otherwise this cat woulda gotten bored and wandered off in search of a new toy long ago

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Submission granted (4/30/2013 3:26:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Being in a D/s relationship only means I'm the leader, it doesn't make me "better" or more important. Do some think "because I get my way", that "I matter more? My sentiments exactly! I'm no better or superior to anyone, submissive, slave, top, dominant, etc. As far as I'm aware, I don't talk down to anyone. I do boss my man when in a relationship, because that is what we agree to when he seeks to date/be in a relationship with moi. M

Bhruic -> RE: Submission granted (4/30/2013 3:43:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst A thought taken from the Ask a Master thread. I have often heard this expressed in other ways by both doms and subs alike It has always been my understanding and practice that everyone should be spoken to as a peer unless their are wearing your collar, or vice-versa. No one has the right to talk down to you until you have granted them the gift of your submission. Not to pick on anyone but I have heard this expressed many times. Maybe I have done this wrong from the get, but I have not had any of men in my life talk down to me, other than my husband (probably why I chose never to remarry). Is it really that common to have ones dominant partner treat you as if you were a lesser person? Or talk down to you as if you cannot understand? In what ways do you express submission? If you are dominant do you actively promote being superior? How? I think you possibly jump to a conclusion when you say "lesser person?". You seem to suggest a "lesser person" as not valued or worth consideration. "Talking down" is a term that has a lot of interpretation as well. I would think that in any power situation, whether it is a D/s relationship, parent/child, Boss/employee there is always an implicit feeling that those who give the orders are "talking down" to those who are expected to obey. A tone that may sound like talking down does not necessarily need to carry with it an implication of disrespect or derision. For many subs that very tone is the tone of authority that makes them tingle, and is a big part of the D/s relationship. A slave or sub that bristles at the thought of being treated as lesser to his or her Master or Dominant seems like an incongruous thing indeed... to me at any rate.

DesFIP -> RE: Submission granted (4/30/2013 4:17:21 PM)
I disagree. You don't have to talk down to people who you are working with, even though you may be appointed the project leader. The fact that you're better at coordinating the pace of the project doesn't automatically make you smarter or better. But stuff like this reminds me of a woman I would meet yearly for a period of 20 years. I always considered her the dumbest woman I had ever met. Until one day her husband went out of the room and suddenly she had smart ideas. He walked back in and the dumb blonde reappeared. It made me feel even more contemptuous of her husband than before, that he needed this to feel as though he was worth respect. I was never so happy as when I met her second husband who appreciated her brains.

Missokyst -> RE: Submission granted (4/30/2013 6:22:51 PM)
I think it goes without saying (though I did say it earlier), that the TONE, is hot. It flips the trigger for many a submissive personality. I have to say though that the tone of authority does not need to carry with it a talking down attitude. Unless of course that is what someone wants. quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic A tone that may sound like talking down does not necessarily need to carry with it an implication of disrespect or derision. For many subs that very tone is the tone of authority that makes them tingle, and is a big part of the D/s relationship. A slave or sub that bristles at the thought of being treated as lesser to his or her Master or Dominant seems like an incongruous thing indeed... to me at any rate.

FrostedFlake -> RE: Submission granted (4/30/2013 9:29:53 PM)
quote: Bhuric A slave or sub that bristles at the thought of being treated as lesser to his or her Master or Dominant seems like an incongruous thing indeed... to me at any rate. Think about a person who is not an emotional masochist. But who is nevertheless masochistic. I hope that parts the veil for you.

NuevaVida -> RE: Submission granted (4/30/2013 10:15:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic I think you possibly jump to a conclusion when you say "lesser person?". You seem to suggest a "lesser person" as not valued or worth consideration. "Talking down" is a term that has a lot of interpretation as well. I would think that in any power situation, whether it is a D/s relationship, parent/child, Boss/employee there is always an implicit feeling that those who give the orders are "talking down" to those who are expected to obey. A tone that may sound like talking down does not necessarily need to carry with it an implication of disrespect or derision. For many subs that very tone is the tone of authority that makes them tingle, and is a big part of the D/s relationship. A slave or sub that bristles at the thought of being treated as lesser to his or her Master or Dominant seems like an incongruous thing indeed... to me at any rate. Regarding the comment about bosses, the best bosses I've had are leaders who are wise enough to know the people doing the work actually know more about how to do the work than they do. They don't give out orders, they encourage new ideas, risk taking, and problem solving. They lead. Sure, they give timelines, and they often see a bigger picture so they will know what ideas will or will not work, but they are not order givers. I'm fortunate enough now to have a director who is awesome at inspiring us to come up with amazing new approaches for the way we do things. As for the Mister treating me as less than him, well he just doesn't see me that way, nor would he want to undo all the work I've done to overcome my former and very debilitating self views. You bet I'd bristle if he did, and we'd be incompatible together. He also leads and in doing so, asks for my input and advice about situations in which I can offer new insight. Being the final authority does not always mean ordering around, or being bigger/better than. It does for some, but not for all.

seekingreality -> RE: Submission granted (4/30/2013 10:40:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst A thought taken from the Ask a Master thread. I have often heard this expressed in other ways by both doms and subs alike It has always been my understanding and practice that everyone should be spoken to as a peer unless their are wearing your collar, or vice-versa. No one has the right to talk down to you until you have granted them the gift of your submission. Not to pick on anyone but I have heard this expressed many times. Maybe I have done this wrong from the get, but I have not had any of men in my life talk down to me, other than my husband (probably why I chose never to remarry). Is it really that common to have ones dominant partner treat you as if you were a lesser person? Or talk down to you as if you cannot understand? In what ways do you express submission? If you are dominant do you actively promote being superior? How? I never quite get threads like this. If I am in a relationship with someone, the dynamic is what we agree to. I am extremely smart, so if a domme tried to talk down to me, it would simply reveal her own stupidity, and she isn't someone I would care to be with. I expect everyone else to treat me pretty much like everyone else.

Bhruic -> RE: Submission granted (5/1/2013 9:07:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I disagree. You don't have to talk down to people who you are working with, even though you may be appointed the project leader. The fact that you're better at coordinating the pace of the project doesn't automatically make you smarter or better. I wasn't suggesting that one has to talk down to those who work under you... Only that in that situation subordinates might easily see it as such.

Bhruic -> RE: Submission granted (5/1/2013 9:11:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake quote: Bhuric A slave or sub that bristles at the thought of being treated as lesser to his or her Master or Dominant seems like an incongruous thing indeed... to me at any rate. Think about a person who is not an emotional masochist. But who is nevertheless masochistic. I hope that parts the veil for you. True... but now it gets a bit nuanced. Would a masochists who is not emotionally masochistic (even if only symbolically) be interested in a "slave" or "sub" position? I honestly don't know, but my instinct would say no.

Bhruic -> RE: Submission granted (5/1/2013 9:22:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic I think you possibly jump to a conclusion when you say "lesser person?". You seem to suggest a "lesser person" as not valued or worth consideration. "Talking down" is a term that has a lot of interpretation as well. I would think that in any power situation, whether it is a D/s relationship, parent/child, Boss/employee there is always an implicit feeling that those who give the orders are "talking down" to those who are expected to obey. A tone that may sound like talking down does not necessarily need to carry with it an implication of disrespect or derision. For many subs that very tone is the tone of authority that makes them tingle, and is a big part of the D/s relationship. A slave or sub that bristles at the thought of being treated as lesser to his or her Master or Dominant seems like an incongruous thing indeed... to me at any rate. Regarding the comment about bosses, the best bosses I've had are leaders who are wise enough to know the people doing the work actually know more about how to do the work than they do. They don't give out orders, they encourage new ideas, risk taking, and problem solving. They lead. Sure, they give timelines, and they often see a bigger picture so they will know what ideas will or will not work, but they are not order givers. I'm fortunate enough now to have a director who is awesome at inspiring us to come up with amazing new approaches for the way we do things. Being the final authority does not always mean ordering around, or being bigger/better than. It does for some, but not for all. That is all very good... But is it not true that he has the ability to fire you if you develop a bad attitude, or do not do your job well, and does that not have some impact on your impression of his position vs. yours? quote: As for the Mister treating me as less than him, well he just doesn't see me that way, nor would he want to undo all the work I've done to overcome my former and very debilitating self views. You bet I'd bristle if he did, and we'd be incompatible together. He also leads and in doing so, asks for my input and advice about situations in which I can offer new insight. Being the final authority does not always mean ordering around, or being bigger/better than. It does for some, but not for all. Do you mean Mister or Master? I assumed the original post was about Master\slave relationships, not just relationships in general. It gets semantic I guess, but in a situation where one may give orders and another must obey, the one who must obey is necessarily lesser... lesser in authority, lesser in control etc.. I recognize that on a higher plane - even in a M\s relationship - partners must be equal for trust to exist... yet in the dynamics of how the M\s relationship plays out, If no demands are made, and no obedience expected, how is it an M\s relationship?

FrostedFlake -> RE: Submission granted (5/1/2013 11:25:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake quote: Bhuric A slave or sub that bristles at the thought of being treated as lesser to his or her Master or Dominant seems like an incongruous thing indeed... to me at any rate. Think about a person who is not an emotional masochist. But who is nevertheless masochistic. I hope that parts the veil for you. True... but now it gets a bit nuanced. Would a masochists who is not emotionally masochistic (even if only symbolically) be interested in a "slave" or "sub" position? I honestly don't know, but my instinct would say no. You are absolutely correct. The word you are not using is 'bottom'. There is a vast difference between wanting to be told what to do, and not. Very frankly, take a physical line with me in order to get the lawn mowed and I will likely think carefully about whether or not to allow the blow to land. And either way that goes, you won't be seeing much of me in future. That is simply not what I'm on the planet for. Even if you do wear D cups. Go on... accuse me of not being a sub. Directly this time. It's funnier that way.

Missokyst -> RE: Submission granted (5/1/2013 1:14:39 PM)
I am not an emotional masochist, yet I am a submissive. I learned after my marriage that I would never choose that path again and in the 30 yrs since my divorce I have not. The men to whom I have related to with my submissive nature have not taken the stance of do it, or you are gone. We simply agreed that one was in charge and the other (me) would follow. There has never been an instance where they needed to make themselves clear in any other way than asking. The "TONE" to which I referred to earlier was more of a sexual, mental cue, delivered with the intent to make my nipples perk regardless of the situation. The tone has never been used to flip me back into sub, I AM sub. It does not require some special additive to make it so. I have worked very hard in my life to limit that trait of mine only to the man who is special in my life, and doing that was not an easy process. Some men may think that submissives require the approach you take to be necessary, but I assure you they are not. If it were that easy there would be no failed ds relationships. People do what works. I might react at first, but that lady inside me that knows better would rebel and pull away before long. Epic fail. quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake quote: Bhuric A slave or sub that bristles at the thought of being treated as lesser to his or her Master or Dominant seems like an incongruous thing indeed... to me at any rate. Think about a person who is not an emotional masochist. But who is nevertheless masochistic. I hope that parts the veil for you. True... but now it gets a bit nuanced. Would a masochists who is not emotionally masochistic (even if only symbolically) be interested in a "slave" or "sub" position? I honestly don't know, but my instinct would say no.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Submission granted (5/1/2013 1:53:54 PM)
FR: It's been my experience that there are many men who will say, "I don't think I'm better than you" but they think it. And that thinking becomes apparent over time. A very interesting component of the D/s or M/s dynamic is that, though you may have unequal levels of power and authority within the relationship, it does not follow that one is of lesser value than the other. The two are equal as people. And certainly from a Dom's POV, a good s-type is valueless. Truly valueless, there is no way to pay for it. As for asking permission to speak or be spoken to and such, I consider that high protocol. I guess I would scope out a situation before I decided the level of protocol to use in addressing someone. Although I am very low protocol myself, I have no issue with others' requesting a higher level of protocol if I interact with their submissive. In a public setting, I respect the dynamic (if not the person).

littlewonder -> RE: Submission granted (5/1/2013 4:28:23 PM)
quote: So it's a good thing she's smart (Way way smarter than this 106 IQ boy), because otherwise this cat woulda gotten bored and wandered off in search of a new toy long ago pppfffttt [8\|] Don't let him trick you. [;)]

Missokyst -> RE: Submission granted (5/1/2013 4:43:50 PM)
I agree with your first sentence entirely! I always found it amusing to toy with that and rip it to shreds, but then I do have an arrogant side to me. The unequal levels of power is why most of us do this stuff, myself included. I choose to be ruled. I really believe it is linked in some way to that arrogance I developed as a child. I have done high protocal and low. I prefer low. What I don't like it when someone forces me to play their game without asking if it is ok. Scoping out the dynamic in a social situation is a quality many lack and that is when noses get bent out of shape. That party I mentioned early on made me an irritable person for a good 10 mins. quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt FR: It's been my experience that there are many men who will say, "I don't think I'm better than you" but they think it. And that thinking becomes apparent over time. A very interesting component of the D/s or M/s dynamic is that, though you may have unequal levels of power and authority within the relationship, it does not follow that one is of lesser value than the other. The two are equal as people. And certainly from a Dom's POV, a good s-type is valueless. Truly valueless, there is no way to pay for it. As for asking permission to speak or be spoken to and such, I consider that high protocol. I guess I would scope out a situation before I decided the level of protocol to use in addressing someone. Although I am very low protocol myself, I have no issue with others' requesting a higher level of protocol if I interact with their submissive. In a public setting, I respect the dynamic (if not the person).

TNDommeK -> RE: Submission granted (5/1/2013 6:32:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst A thought taken from the Ask a Master thread. I have often heard this expressed in other ways by both doms and subs alike It has always been my understanding and practice that everyone should be spoken to as a peer unless their are wearing your collar, or vice-versa. No one has the right to talk down to you until you have granted them the gift of your submission. Not to pick on anyone but I have heard this expressed many times. Maybe I have done this wrong from the get, but I have not had any of men in my life talk down to me, other than my husband (probably why I chose never to remarry). Is it really that common to have ones dominant partner treat you as if you were a lesser person? Or talk down to you as if you cannot understand? In what ways do you express submission? If you are dominant do you actively promote being superior? How? I skipped reading the thread and just answered. My slave here now belongs to just me. Hubby owns the other. He doesn't treat her any different than he would someone he was friendly with. He doesn't "show off" his dominance. She feels it I'm sure, but he treats her like a normal person.

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