RE: Submission granted

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DesFIP -> RE: Submission granted (5/2/2013 10:10:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic True... but now it gets a bit nuanced. Would a masochists who is not emotionally masochistic (even if only symbolically) be interested in a "slave" or "sub" position? I honestly don't know, but my instinct would say no. I'm not in the least interested in pain and I'm in a TPE. He's not a sadist either so we're compatible kinkwise. But him liking to tie me up has nothing to do with making the decision of whether the car is worth repairing or not. It has nothing to do with deciding if we're getting a new dog. With being the person in charge. And as a man who has run departments of over a hundred engineers before, he never talked down to them. In fact, quite the opposite. He was unwilling to keep any employee who wouldn't challenge him when they thought he was wrong. And doing this is why his projects were always under budget and done early. He didn't need to make them smaller to make himself feel bigger. In other words, he doesn't bully people in any walk of life. If you need to do this, then that's emotional sadism and you need to be honest about it to potential partners because there aren't a lot of emotional masochists about. And it's wrong to do this without consent, as in that case it is abuse.

LadyPact -> RE: Submission granted (5/2/2013 10:51:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I have done high protocal and low. I prefer low. What I don't like it when someone forces me to play their game without asking if it is ok. Scoping out the dynamic in a social situation is a quality many lack and that is when noses get bent out of shape. That party I mentioned early on made me an irritable person for a good 10 mins. quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt FR: As for asking permission to speak or be spoken to and such, I consider that high protocol. I guess I would scope out a situation before I decided the level of protocol to use in addressing someone. Although I am very low protocol myself, I have no issue with others' requesting a higher level of protocol if I interact with their submissive. In a public setting, I respect the dynamic (if not the person). If I may, I wanted to say something about this. Maybe it's because I'm a high protocol person, Myself. There are some thoughts that might be appreciated from the other perspective. There are a lot of folks out there who are much harsher in their comments about 'not wanting to play the game' when it comes to other people's dynamics. Usually, they go along the lines of "well, I'm not a part of your dynamic, so I don't have to abide by your rules". OK. This is true. While I can ask that others respect the way I do things, I most certainly can't force you. The decision on the matter is yours. It's not about having to. It's about wanting to. When I treat people accordingly to the way that they have their dynamic structured, it's about acknowledging what they have in their dynamic. It's recognizing what they have determined that they want as a part of their lives. It's support for the decisions that have been made and I'm willing to appreciate that and them as a person. We had a thread a long time back about being happy for other people. Respecting the dynamic that a person has is a part of that.

OsideGirl -> RE: Submission granted (5/2/2013 11:06:21 AM)
We have a policy that unless you're already one of our friends we're going to default to a higher protocol. After all, you wouldn't pet a stranger's dog without getting permission or touch their car without getting permission. It makes sense that if two people are clearly in a dynamic, that when you approach them, you approach the authority side first. We deal with this a lot when I get idiots that ask me to play. When I point out that he is the decision maker, they inevitably tell ME to ask him if it's okay. They don't get that it's not my position to ask. I was not the one that wanted to play and it's akin to the car or the dog asking to play with someone other than their owner.

Kana -> RE: Submission granted (5/2/2013 1:05:33 PM)
quote: And as a man who has run departments of over a hundred engineers before, he never talked down to them. In fact, quite the opposite. He was unwilling to keep any employee who wouldn't challenge him when they thought he was wrong. Oh man Des, bosses like that or rare creatures. I dream of having another Jefe like that

cloudboy -> RE: Submission granted (5/2/2013 6:08:13 PM)
Curious what your five majors were. I read through the thread and appreciate how you express yourself -- my impression is that when DOMs cross a certain line with you, it triggers emotions related to your marriage and a bad time in your life. Do you feel that your past experiences can over-color your current impressions of other people?

DesFIP -> RE: Submission granted (5/2/2013 7:03:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Maybe it's because I'm a high protocol person, Myself. There are some thoughts that might be appreciated from the other perspective. There are a lot of folks out there who are much harsher in their comments about 'not wanting to play the game' when it comes to other people's dynamics. Usually, they go along the lines of "well, I'm not a part of your dynamic, so I don't have to abide by your rules". If someone has a protocol that I don't want to deal with, the alternative is not to be rude and inflict mine on them. It's to decide that they're too much trouble to talk to so I'll talk to someone else instead. I can't see why this is so hard for people to grasp. If people come here in winter, they get asked to take their shoes off at the door and not track in mud and snow. Don't want to abide by my house rules, don't come visit. It really is that simple.

Missokyst -> RE: Submission granted (5/2/2013 8:17:17 PM)
All experience colors how one views things. I avoid slavery situations or men that are overly controlling based on my experience in my marriage, but also my observation in the social services and those of my female relatives and friends. Among my studies have been criminal justice, pre-law, art, social science, psychology, anthropology, religion, liberal studies and english. I started taking college classes when I was 17 (if you count art, age 13) and went on and off with no direction until my mid 40's, hence the many fields. Some are majors, some are minors. None of them ended up meaning anything to me other than more knowlege, I LOVE learning. When someone crosses a line with me it is not my prior marriage that colors my view, it is the totality of my experience with people. That said, I am unavoidably sub. I have been unable to break free of this personality quirk even though I am fully aware from where it sprung. I was fortunate enough to learn from the first experience what did not work for me. Not that I didn't consider it again, I almost slipped back into that slave persona with the first man I loved (not the ex-h), but he would not allow it. It was he that made me look out for myself and see some value that was just me and not what I could provide. It was enjoyable to discover what I could do when my eyes were opened.

NuevaVida -> RE: Submission granted (5/2/2013 10:12:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic That is all very good... But is it not true that he has the ability to fire you if you develop a bad attitude, or do not do your job well, and does that not have some impact on your impression of his position vs. yours? My boss is a she, not a he. And yes, because she is in a position of authority, she has the authority to implement consequences if I suddenly turned into a bad employee, which is not going to happen. However, at least here in the state of California, companies have to be very, very careful about terminating employees. At my place of business, what you described above would make it very difficult to be fired over. Written up, yes, disciplined, yes. Withholding a raise or opportunities, yes. But they'd be hard pressed to fire someone over poor attitudes and workmanship. However, her authority over me does not make me a lesser person than her. She is brilliant, and a fantastic leader, and because of that I have a lot of respect for her. I've had horrible bosses whom I did not like or respect, and they didn't get as much out of me as a result. I've argued with bosses, challenged them, and on very rare occasion, even talked back to them. They are not better than me, and I'd have little tolerance to be spoken down to by them. That would be the sign of a very poor leader. quote: Do you mean Mister or Master? I assumed the original post was about Master\slave relationships, not just relationships in general. I refer to him as the Mister (it's a term of endearment for us), but he is the owner and authority of me. I rarely call him Master, but the dynamic of our relationship is that of Master/slave. quote: It gets semantic I guess, but in a situation where one may give orders and another must obey, the one who must obey is necessarily lesser... lesser in authority, lesser in control etc.. I recognize that on a higher plane - even in a M\s relationship - partners must be equal for trust to exist... yet in the dynamics of how the M\s relationship plays out, If no demands are made, and no obedience expected, how is it an M\s relationship? I didn't say he doesn't make demands of me, but I did say our relationship is authority based. He has the final say over what I do, whether it's the way he wants the dishwasher loaded or where I work, or what medical care I receive. So yes, I have less authority than he does in this relationship, but that does not mean he treats me as less than the equal person to him that I am. If he did, I would bristle. I was addressing the statements of yours regarding "talking down" to, and bristling at being treated less than him. I do not view my boss or the Mister telling me what their expectations are, as "talking down" - they're just stating what they want me to do. And if I disagree, I can challenge it, and they listen with interest while ultimately having the final say. Being talked down to is condescending to me, and I wouldn't align myself with someone who treated me so disrespectfully.

NuevaVida -> RE: Submission granted (5/2/2013 10:17:00 PM)
quote: Bhuric True... but now it gets a bit nuanced. Would a masochists who is not emotionally masochistic (even if only symbolically) be interested in a "slave" or "sub" position? I honestly don't know, but my instinct would say no. I haven't read the rest of the replies to this yet, but I am far from an emotional masochist. What I am, is someone who naturally concedes to the person I am intimate with. It's one of the ways I express my love and affection. It has nothing to do with a need or desire to experience emotional pain. In the past I was very much an emotional masochist but learned it was due to some past issues I needed to work through. Being with an emotional sadist would be harmful to me now, and it's a place I will not go.

FrostedFlake -> RE: Submission granted (5/2/2013 10:43:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: Bhuric True... but now it gets a bit nuanced. Would a masochists who is not emotionally masochistic (even if only symbolically) be interested in a "slave" or "sub" position? I honestly don't know, but my instinct would say no. I haven't read the rest of the replies to this yet, but I am far from an emotional masochist. What I am, is someone who naturally concedes to the person I am intimate with. It's one of the ways I express my love and affection. It has nothing to do with a need or desire to experience emotional pain. In the past I was very much an emotional masochist but learned it was due to some past issues I needed to work through. Being with an emotional sadist would be harmful to me now, and it's a place I will not go. Perhaps I should have put more thought into that 'emotional masochist' label. I'm sorry if that offends. It wasn't meant to.

NuevaVida -> RE: Submission granted (5/3/2013 6:55:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake Perhaps I should have put more thought into that 'emotional masochist' label. I'm sorry if that offends. It wasn't meant to. No worries, I'm not offended at all. As with most things, there are various degrees of meaning when applying labels. My own experiences with emotional masochism has been at the core. But there are many points on the spectrum of that characteristic.

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