Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (Full Version)

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Level -> Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 10:15:10 AM)

http://m.si.com/2854664/an-nba-player-comes-out/

Kudos to him for being strong enough to do so.



searching4mysir -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 10:32:51 AM)

I don't know, Level. It isn't as if I go around telling complete strangers "I like cock". Why is he defining himself by which gender he wants to sleep with, and why should anyone care in the first place?



Level -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 10:37:30 AM)

Well, he's the first athelete that is still actively playing in one of the Big 4 sports to come out; he's hopefully making it easier for others to do so, in a community that is still very macho, and at times hostile, to gays.



searching4mysir -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 10:42:34 AM)

But why the need to come out in the first place? Why is it anyone's business who he wants to bang? Do the straight guys need to have a press conference to say they are straight?

I'm not saying that he has to hide who he is, but why not just live his life and sleep with who he wants and if some paparazzi/paper decides to out him just say "yeah, so what"? Why the need to make a big announcement?



Level -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 10:57:09 AM)

Isn't it good for others to have a positive role model?

You have plenty of very vocal people that run gay people in the ground, and it's especially tough for young males that play sports. Having someone they can point at, and say "he did it, I can too", in terms of accepting one's sexuality, is something that's needed.

He's not just doing this for himself.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 10:57:13 AM)

Well, cousin Jason has certainly inspired me. I was going to wait but ... people; I'm straight.

Ya know, I don't know if I ever cared who an athelete or music personality slept with (other than to say: "That Mick Jagger is one lucky bastard to be nailing her !")

Now, I do acknowledge that, as a society, we're probably not exactly where we want to be with the whole not liking gay people thing so, this did take some personal courage for Jason but, beyond that, I couldn't possible care less which side of the pillow he likes his mints on.



Peace and comfort,




Michael



thompsonx -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 11:00:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

But why the need to come out in the first place? Why is it anyone's business who he wants to bang? Do the straight guys need to have a press conference to say they are straight?


Perhaps you miss that straight guys are always letting you know that they are straight...as in the post above this one...I am surprised that a grown woman had missed that particularly straight guy phenominon.

quote:

I'm not saying that he has to hide who he is,



Then what the fuck are you saying?

quote:

but why not just live his life and sleep with who he wants and if some paparazzi/paper decides to out him just say "yeah, so what"? Why the need to make a big announcement?


Perhaps for the same reason you tell potential b/f that you are stright...he wants to get lucky. I have heard that advertising pays.



LadyPact -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 11:30:05 AM)

I absolutely loved the article. I thought it was well written and very much allowed his personality to shine through. I also liked his stance on why he wanted to make the statement for himself, rather than a potential TMZ announcement someday.

I agree with you, Level. It is good thing to have a professional athlete come out during his professional career and not wait until after retirement. I might be a little out of touch having lived here the last couple of years but I also see this as a positive considering he is an African-American man. I've seen more than one article over the years of why coming out can be even tougher when a person is both.

Thank you for sharing this.



PeonForHer -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 11:49:05 AM)

It's big news here in the UK, too.

Well, I'm impressed. It can't have been easy, as an African-American, a sportsman and a basket-ball player especially.

Is it OK to invoke the phrase 'true grit', or is that reserved for heteros exclusively? Well, the man has that, or something very like it.



PeonForHer -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 12:06:14 PM)

FR

Each time I look at this thread I can't help thinking of Joan Collins. Jason announcing his homosexuality - good for him. Joan, though - entirely unacceptable. Just saying. [;)]



FrostedFlake -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 12:32:39 PM)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

http://wasm.us/S_dim.pdf

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/stonewall/player/

The reason gay folks "come out" is, they have been hiding for thousands of years. Hiding from... you.

Why? You outnumber them about ten to one, and the bible says, "kill them". A lot of folks take that book to heart. Believe everything in it. Especially the stuff that says everyone should kill that guy because when He made him God fucked up.

Don't think this matters anymore? We are more enlightened, now? We don't just automatically throw people in jail for being gay, anymore? How would we have gotten from there to where you think we are now, with out gay people "coming out"? People in closets are invisible. They cannot stand up for themselves, cannot be politically active, without becoming visible. That is what 'coming out' (of the closet) means. You can see them.

And are we really 'there', yet? Or are we still discussing things like marriage equality, child custody and reprogramming gays into straights? And then there are organizations like the boy scouts and the roman catholic church, organizations allowed to discriminate against gays (but, notably, not against blacks, browns, reds, yellows, greens, blues or purples) while facing no legal repercussion whatsoever. What's up with that?

18 anti gay organizations. 2010, Southern Poverty Law Center

Classic 1960's educational film. Y'know. For kids.

Assorted loons on the radio

Rachel Maddow

There is, of course, quite a bit more.



Level -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 12:39:50 PM)

LP, I agree, it's far harder on a minority doing this.

Peon, he sure can lay claim to having "true grit", while Ms Collins, she seems to be ultra-hetero.



needlesandpins -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 12:43:43 PM)

it's great that he's come out as gay, but really it should be a case of who cares. when i see this kind of thing i tend to shake my head wondering why the hell some people are still so fucking backward in thinking. it really should be no big deal these days.

needles



outlier -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 12:52:21 PM)

I am a basketball fan, to a point.  So I see some
other aspects to this that should be considered.

First of all this is a 34 year old player which is old in that league
unless you are a big time star, which he is not.  He has averaged
about 10 min a game for one of the worse teams in the league. In
other words he is considered too poor a player to make a significant
contribution even to one of the weakest teams in the league.

Here is his stat line from NBA.com:  http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_collins/

Second, he is a "free agent" which means there are no contractual obligations
either way.  He is free to play for anyone with no trade rights involved.  But
nobody has to hire him or pay him, his contract is up.

So maybe his career is over anyway.  Or maybe this is a cynical move so
people can raise this as an issue if he is not signed again or picked up by
another team that needs a backup center. 

All of this is just idle speculation to round out the picture. 





DaddySatyr -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 12:58:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

I am a basketball fan, to a point.  So I see some
other aspects to this that should be considered.

First of all this is a 34 year old player which is old in that league
unless you are a big time star, which he is not.  He has averaged
about 10 min a game for one of the worse teams in the league. In
other words he is considered too poor a player to make a significant
contribution even to one of the weakest teams in the league.

Here is his stat line from NBA.com:  http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_collins/

Second, he is a "free agent" which means there are no contractual obligations
either way.  He is free to play for anyone with no trade rights involved.  But
nobody has to hire him or pay him, his contract is up.

So maybe his career is over anyway.  Or maybe this is a cynical move so
people can raise this as an issue if he is not signed again or picked up by
another team that needs a backup center. 

All of this is just idle speculation to round out the picture. 





I haven't really been a basketball fan in years but, I frequently listen to sports talk radio and one of these points kind of crossed my mind, briefly.

"Or maybe this is a cynical move so people can raise this as an issue if he is not signed again or picked up by another team that needs a backup center."

Although, I didn't exactly come at it from that direction entirely. I thought it might be a "sypmathy grab" as opposed to cynicism. You know ... aging athlete, not ready to "hang up the cleats" will do anything to try to hang on to the game he loves. That kind of thing.



Peace and comfort,



Michael



dcnovice -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 1:19:53 PM)

quote:

Why is he defining himself by which gender he wants to sleep with, and why should anyone care in the first place?


A few thoughts from a gay man:

--Hetero folks have defined themselves by whom they sleep with for thousands of years. They celebrate their pairings with elaborate weddings and wear rings signaling that they're married (to someone of the opposite sex). And even in this modern era, women often take the name of the man they've married.

-- Society regularly defines and, in many cases marginalizes, people who sleep with others of the same sex. According to the Center for American Progress, "Studies show that anywhere from 15 percent to 43 percent of gay people have experienced some form of discrimination and harassment at the workplace." And the Human Rights Campaign notes that workplace discrimination against gays and lesbians is perfectly legal in 29 states. Meantime, federal law prohibits recognition of same-sex marriages, meaning that a couple may have one status at the state level and another at the federal.

-- Marginalization of gay folks sometimes crosses the line into outright violence. I've been gay-bashed myself, as have friends. And gay people of my generation will never forget Matthew Shepard.

-- The widespread assumption that everyone is straight can leave young gays and lesbians feeling alone in an alien and even hostile world. Watching popular figures come out, queer kids learn that they're not alone, not aberrant. As Harvey Milk observed, "[L]ast week I got a phone call from Altoona, Pennsylvania, and my election gave somebody else, one more person, hope. And after all, that's what this is all about. It's not about personal gain, not about ego, not about power — it's about giving those young people out there in the Altoona, Pennsylvanias, hope. You gotta give them hope."

By coming out and being proudly honest of who he is, Jason Collins is giving hope to young (and perhaps not-so-young) people he may never meet. I know what it's like to need that hope, so I salute and thank him.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 1:35:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

I am a basketball fan, to a point.  So I see some
other aspects to this that should be considered.

First of all this is a 34 year old player which is old in that league
unless you are a big time star, which he is not.  He has averaged
about 10 min a game for one of the worse teams in the league. In
other words he is considered too poor a player to make a significant
contribution even to one of the weakest teams in the league.

Here is his stat line from NBA.com:  http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_collins/

Second, he is a "free agent" which means there are no contractual obligations
either way.  He is free to play for anyone with no trade rights involved.  But
nobody has to hire him or pay him, his contract is up.

So maybe his career is over anyway.  Or maybe this is a cynical move so
people can raise this as an issue if he is not signed again or picked up by
another team that needs a backup center. 

All of this is just idle speculation to round out the picture. 





I haven't really been a basketball fan in years but, I frequently listen to sports talk radio and one of these points kind of crossed my mind, briefly.

"Or maybe this is a cynical move so people can raise this as an issue if he is not signed again or picked up by another team that needs a backup center."

Although, I didn't exactly come at it from that direction entirely. I thought it might be a "sypmathy grab" as opposed to cynicism. You know ... aging athlete, not ready to "hang up the cleats" will do anything to try to hang on to the game he loves. That kind of thing.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

I'm thinking that it may be in a different direction.
For the last decade, he knew he was disposable and didn't come out for that reason. A marginal player is just that. If he comes out and isn't resigned or is cut and no one claims him off waivers then management can easily say "It's not because he's gay, I don't care about that. It's because he wasn't as good as the new guy" and they would have the numbers to back it up.

Now, he's able to say fuck it. if no one picks me up, I can retire comfortably anyway. There's at most one or 2 more years left in my legs and I've invested wisely so maybe I can do something to help the younger guys who are in the position I was in 5-10 years ago.



dcnovice -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 2:01:01 PM)

quote:

it's great that he's come out as gay, but really it should be a case of who cares. when i see this kind of thing i tend to shake my head wondering why the hell some people are still so fucking backward in thinking. it really should be no big deal these days.

True.

Unfortunately, though, being gay still means second-class citizenship in many ways. A friend just posted a heartbreaking example on Facebook:

TX Man: After 34 Years My Partner's Sister Forced Us Apart, Took Our Home Because We Weren't Married

And I've shared elsewhere a story from my own family.



DomKen -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 2:04:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

But why the need to come out in the first place? Why is it anyone's business who he wants to bang? Do the straight guys need to have a press conference to say they are straight?

I'm not saying that he has to hide who he is, but why not just live his life and sleep with who he wants and if some paparazzi/paper decides to out him just say "yeah, so what"? Why the need to make a big announcement?

So he could be a role model to young people who might be gay. So he can be honest with his teammates, friends and family. Because it was the right thing to do.



dcnovice -> RE: Jason Collins: "I'm Gay" (4/29/2013 2:08:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

But why the need to come out in the first place? Why is it anyone's business who he wants to bang? Do the straight guys need to have a press conference to say they are straight?

I'm not saying that he has to hide who he is, but why not just live his life and sleep with who he wants and if some paparazzi/paper decides to out him just say "yeah, so what"? Why the need to make a big announcement?

So he could be a role model to young people who might be gay. So he can be honest with his teammates, friends and family. Because it was the right thing to do.


Well said, DK. Thanks!



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