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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 3:55:44 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl



I have had dynamics where emotions were not allowed if they were not pleasing. Typically they are quickly followed by punishments. So, in some sense, the dom could exert control over emotions in that aspect.


I can attest to this. In a nutshell, they are conditioned emotions. In some cases, emotions were punished. In other cases, they were redirected/corrected emotions. After a time, you learn to remap your emotions prior to the external correction occurring.

For example with the ex owner, I was not allowed to feel anger toward him. And yet, at times, I did. And since I was also always honest with him, I'd tell him when I was. This was routinely met with him pulling whatever it was out of his toolbox to immediately shift those emotions to something else (not always in a healthy way, but it still happened). When you give your mind and heart over to someone in the fullest sense, they really can manipulate what you think and feel. Right or wrong, it can happen.

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 4:06:14 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

This, I would dispute to an extent:
>> "So, we have a sub in a relationship with a dominant in which that dominant exerts control over the subs emotions. Im not sure there is much to dispute about that." <<

Over the sub's *emotions*? Every sub I've known has been an emotional soul and I've liked that aspect of their being since it's something I feel is diminished within me. I'm the "calm, cool & collected" type in stressful situations (which I s'pose is a good thing) but it means I often present as cold and detached to those who know me peripherally. And yeah, all evil, sadistic and demanding when I'm in the zone with my girl.


This was corrected in a subsequent post as well as explained throughout the thread.

Yep; figures; good onya...! lol

See what happens when I come in late and only read the OP.... And since I don't normally bother with "stale" threads (more than 2 pages long), it serves me right, dammit.


quote:

quote:

And those emotions include anger (with me). So I don't control her emotions to a point of smothering them as that just makes for a bigger problem later. Better to let her run with them and get it all out in the open. "Pulling rank" is if I think she's just being petulant etc.


I have had dynamics where emotions were not allowed if they were not pleasing. Typically they are quickly followed by punishments. So, in some sense, the dom could exert control over emotions in that aspect.

Not pleasing? I don't differentiate - if it needs to be out, let it out. I once had an angry sub throw a set of leather cuffs at me like she meant it (was one of the all time GREAT defensive catches, btw). Man, she was *pissed* and I then just sat there and let her rant. Foolishly added the odd correction but ultimately just quietly let her run. Surely make-up sex is the best kind, no?

It's my experience that negative type emotions that cause stress etc affect the sub's ability to slide into sub-space. A stressed sub is an unhappy sub and it's primarily for that reason that it's better to suck it up and let her purge them than to just stubbornly insist she "deal with it" and "get over it" etc on her own. I'm talking about when it's just us - that I don't put our dynamic in the public eye and I sure wouldn't appreciate her doing it, either.

Focus.

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 4:10:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		They called it "conditioning". Its a type of emotional brain washing. I learned to hide emotions well.

I also had a dom who enjoyed my angry moment, even could pull a few out of me. And, yes, even angry sex is hot sometimes.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 4:18:15 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		For me, its hard to break out of that still. Seeing the man get angry always puts me into shut down mode, even though he rarely gets angry, and even more rarely at me.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 4:38:14 PM   
MsEloquence


Posts: 72
Joined: 5/7/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Actually, it is as wrong as someone having a fetish for making someone anorexic. Damage is damage, whether it be physical or emotional.



quote:

 

Does that translate to me saying that these women shouldn't be involved in those types of relationships. I'm not afraid to say yes it does mean that. If you are not whole, you can't give part of yourself away without damage.




Both excellent, if sometimes unpopular, points

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Eloquence

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 4:49:51 PM   
MsEloquence


Posts: 72
Joined: 5/7/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow.. so this all boils down to how wet a slut gets between her legs.


No, I neither said nor meant any such thing. Let me rephrase.

Most people will listen to your description of the loss of your love and hear it as missing his importance, his central value, to your life. Because they are oblivious to the subtleties of others' lives, most people will miss that you are speaking of d/s

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Eloquence

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 4:58:10 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

For me, its hard to break out of that still. Seeing the man get angry always puts me into shut down mode, even though he rarely gets angry, and even more rarely at me.

It's still a work in progress for me - dealing with the Mister getting angry. And he rarely gets angry, too, even more rarely at me. The first and last time he actually yelled at me (about a year and a half ago) I went into complete shut down to the point where we almost split up. It's one of my PTSD triggers, and the one reason he put a safe word in place. But that's a different subject, too.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 5:35:55 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsEloquence


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow.. so this all boils down to how wet a slut gets between her legs.


No, I neither said nor meant any such thing. Let me rephrase.

Most people will listen to your description of the loss of your love and hear it as missing his importance, his central value, to your life. Because they are oblivious to the subtleties of others' lives, most people will miss that you are speaking of d/s


You make a really good point. People are so self absorbed and involved these days, half the time they aren't listening anyway.

Even here, I'm always amazed at how people will read a post, pick one sentence and run with it, completely missing the other information. So it should not be a surprise that a friend being supportive is really only hearing, "waa, waa, he was my whole world, waa, waa, I don't know how to live without him, waa, waa," without making a connection to the D/s.

I'm sorry, but I don't make a habit of sharing the intimate details of my relationship with people. Not the sexual aspects or the day to day stuff. So this whole "how wet a slut gets" is all on you tazzy. Do you really need to share that great a detail of your life with everyone?

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 9:21:23 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsEloquence


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow.. so this all boils down to how wet a slut gets between her legs.


No, I neither said nor meant any such thing. Let me rephrase.

Most people will listen to your description of the loss of your love and hear it as missing his importance, his central value, to your life. Because they are oblivious to the subtleties of others' lives, most people will miss that you are speaking of d/s


The post I responded too....

quote:

Tazzy,
You may have missed most people's obliviousness. If people aren't kinky they'll hear your list more as "I miss how central he was to my life" than "I got hot and bothered when he told me what to do."


Sounds to me like you are saying I got hot and bothered when he told me to do his laundry, polish his shoes, wash the walls or scrub the floors. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It had nothing to do with being "hot and bothered" when I did chores for him. What I missed, as Nueva also stated, was the structure in my life.

And that is what I took exception too. So while you may insist that isnt what you meant, that is what you said and what I responded too.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MsEloquence)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 9:23:45 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I'm sorry, but I don't make a habit of sharing the intimate details of my relationship with people. Not the sexual aspects or the day to day stuff. So this whole "how wet a slut gets" is all on you tazzy. Do you really need to share that great a detail of your life with everyone?


Where did I share that? Show me where in this thread I did so?

In fact, I was quite specific about what I missed here

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4441268

quote:

For example, one of the things I missed was my chore list. How do I explain that to vanilla friends? Or the fact that I no longer had a bed time, which I both hated and loved, or how much I learned from the many TV shows and movies he would have me watch and tell him about later. My whole day was developed to work around his for 4 years. Suddenly that was gone and my time was my own.


Now, do show me where I said anything about the sexual aspects of my life in this thread.

quote:

Even here, I'm always amazed at how people will read a post, pick one sentence and run with it, completely missing the other information. So it should not be a surprise that a friend being supportive is really only hearing, "waa, waa, he was my whole world, waa, waa, I don't know how to live without him, waa, waa," without making a connection to the D/s.


Seems you are glossing over posts all together.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 5/10/2013 9:24:46 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 10:36:28 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Sounds to me like you are saying I got hot and bothered when he told me to do his laundry, polish his shoes, wash the walls or scrub the floors. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It had nothing to do with being "hot and bothered" when I did chores for him. What I missed, as Nueva also stated, was the structure in my life.

And that is what I took exception too. So while you may insist that isnt what you meant, that is what you said and what I responded too.


That isn't what I said at all. I get it. It was the comfort of having someone that provided structure. And my point remains the same. Friends who don't know aren't going to be hearing that as being kinky, and if they were around you as a couple at all, they surely noticed your way of relating to each other.

The problem is the insistence that because this was BDSM, the loss of control is somehow more difficult to deal with than for a vanilla couple. It isn't. I've seen many vanilla people be so utterly devastated and lost without their partner, they couldn't cope. And that is what this is about. How people cope after a split. And the reality is that people who have trouble coping from a BDSM breakup would have the same difficulty coping after a vanilla split with someone they made their whole life. Likewise, the opposite is true.

I'm not the one attaching any of the "hot and bothered" activities to this. You are.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 10:41:20 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I'm sorry, but I don't make a habit of sharing the intimate details of my relationship with people. Not the sexual aspects or the day to day stuff. So this whole "how wet a slut gets" is all on you tazzy. Do you really need to share that great a detail of your life with everyone?


Where did I share that? Show me where in this thread I did so?

In fact, I was quite specific about what I missed here

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4441268

quote:

For example, one of the things I missed was my chore list. How do I explain that to vanilla friends? Or the fact that I no longer had a bed time, which I both hated and loved, or how much I learned from the many TV shows and movies he would have me watch and tell him about later. My whole day was developed to work around his for 4 years. Suddenly that was gone and my time was my own.


Now, do show me where I said anything about the sexual aspects of my life in this thread.

quote:

Even here, I'm always amazed at how people will read a post, pick one sentence and run with it, completely missing the other information. So it should not be a surprise that a friend being supportive is really only hearing, "waa, waa, he was my whole world, waa, waa, I don't know how to live without him, waa, waa," without making a connection to the D/s.


Seems you are glossing over posts all together.


You are the one who mentioned the whole "slut getting wet." No one else did. But please if you can show me where I said anything about your daily routine getting you hot and bothered, I would love to see it.

And as for how you explain it all, it really isn't that difficult. You miss the "routine" that the two of you shared. That covers your chores, it covers your bedtime. Because that is what structure provides. Routine.

I'm really not sure why you are so insistent that it is all that different. Perhaps you have never known someone in the vanilla world who had that kind of devastation. I have and I am hearing all the same things from you and NeuvaVida that I heard from them.


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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 10:43:47 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Ok, a middle ground, maybe?

I don't consider the word intimate to automatically equate the term sexual. I figure, if a person is going to post about their prior experiences, some of those are going to be intimate. After all....... Didn't you have those experiences in personal and private?


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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 10:50:13 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

The problem is the insistence that because this was BDSM, the loss of control is somehow more difficult to deal with than for a vanilla couple. It isn't. I've seen many vanilla people be so utterly devastated and lost without their partner, they couldn't cope. And that is what this is about. How people cope after a split. And the reality is that people who have trouble coping from a BDSM breakup would have the same difficulty coping after a vanilla split with someone they made their whole life. Likewise, the opposite is true.

Except some people, who have experienced breakups from both types of relationships, are saying the difficulty was different. And this thread is about submissives and slaves who had that difficulty; not vanilla folks.
quote:



I'm not the one attaching any of the "hot and bothered" activities to this. You are.

Not to jump in on this one (except I just did), but MsEloquence did, in her post that said, "If people aren't kinky they'll hear your list more as "I miss how central he was to my life" than "I got hot and bothered when he told me what to do."

quote:


I'm really not sure why you are so insistent that it is all that different. Perhaps you have never known someone in the vanilla world who had that kind of devastation. I have and I am hearing all the same things from you and NeuvaVida that I heard from them.

Again: For SOME people it is different. For SOME people it is not. Although I'm wager a guess that the devastation you're hearing about in the vanilla world is not due to the loss of someone else having complete control and authority over there. I'm not saying there wasn't devastation, but are you sure it was the same things these people were mourning?

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 10:54:42 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They called it "conditioning". Its a type of emotional brain washing. I learned to hide emotions well.

I also had a dom who enjoyed my angry moment, even could pull a few out of me. And, yes, even angry sex is hot sometimes.


I know exactly what you mean. My ex actually liked when I was mad as he thought it was hot and fueled our sex life.

I tried to explain that as hot as it seemed during the time we were having sex and even if both of us got off incrediby well, for me, the anger just remained and stayed with me.

That anger just festered and went on and on until it just burned out...and burned out any of my positive feelings towards him.

He still to this day, does not understand why we cannot see each other.

I tried to explain that being in a constant state of anger and frustration with someone does not make a healthy relationship, but he would not know what that was, as he never had one.

I want to make one more general comment: we are discussing how long it takes to get over someone. I don't find it to be about this one person (for me at least), but more about grieving the lost time spent in a bad relationship and grieving the possibility that you may never meet anyone else who is good for you or makes you feel the intensity you did even in the bad relationship.

That last line is something you need to explore, as I have done and continue to do in all honesty.

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 10:54:59 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Ok, a middle ground, maybe?


I'm thinking a middle ground would be to accept that some people have devastation and some people don't, and everyone's personal experience with devastation is going to be different.

And that the OP was asking about submissives and slaves whose break ups leave them without the control, authority and structure they were living under.

How it turned into a comparison to vanilla life is a little confusing to me.

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 10:58:19 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


I want to make one more general comment: we are discussing how long it takes to get over someone. I don't find it to be about this one person (for me at least), but more about grieving the lost time spent in a bad relationship and grieving the possibility that you may never meet anyone else who is good for you or makes you feel the intensity you did even in the bad relationship.


That is something I grieved when my marriage was over. I discussed it with my therapist, wondering how I was going to get over wasting 20 years with that man, and facing the reality that at that point in my life, I was never going to have the kids I so very much wanted.

That part took years to reconcile for myself, but reconciliation did happen.

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 11:01:25 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


I want to make one more general comment: we are discussing how long it takes to get over someone. I don't find it to be about this one person (for me at least), but more about grieving the lost time spent in a bad relationship and grieving the possibility that you may never meet anyone else who is good for you or makes you feel the intensity you did even in the bad relationship.


That is something I grieved when my marriage was over. I discussed it with my therapist, wondering how I was going to get over wasting 20 years with that man, and facing the reality that at that point in my life, I was never going to have the kids I so very much wanted.

That part took years to reconcile for myself, but reconciliation did happen.


Yes, that is what I am upset over and for some reason, no one around me understands or wants to understand this. I think it is easier for friends/family to keep blaming the guy; they don't want to admit I was complicit in staying in a bad situation and they don't want to agree with me on the concern that I might not ever meet someone.

So, as you say, I need to reconcile this, regardless of whether anyone else in my life agrees with it.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 11:48:36 PM   
littleclip


Posts: 869
Joined: 5/31/2012
Status: offline 		submissives that are released and completely cut off from the relationship and have no support system and have to find new ones and new supporters have it the hardest as they need to have something to replace the loss and structure. this is where i think the loss of control may originate. i have talked with some that have been released for more than 3 years and still have difficulty with the loss. also i think the level or depth of attachment may contribute to the difficulty in control. again this is just my 2 bts worth

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Loss of control - 5/11/2013 1:06:10 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Ok, a middle ground, maybe?

I don't consider the word intimate to automatically equate the term sexual. I figure, if a person is going to post about their prior experiences, some of those are going to be intimate. After all....... Didn't you have those experiences in personal and private?



That is exactly what I meant by "intimate."

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 120
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