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RE: Loss of control - 5/9/2013 6:28:07 PM   
littlewonder


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When my husband died, I was left completely lost. I had no idea whatsoever how to cope with everyday life. I had to learn how to do that all over again and how to control my own life. I was used to being able to rely on him for even just small things in life. Even when he was out to sea, I still knew that my life revolved around him. He was my husband and we had a traditional, old fashioned marriage.

Since then though I've learned how to control my own life and while Master does have the last say and does control my life, he's pretty liberal with me. Now there is talk about our life together becoming much more TPE than it is now. But I can't say that I'm afraid of what would happen if we were no longer together anymore. I've been through it once already and so I know that yeah, it would be difficult again for awhile but eventually I'd pick up where I left off eventually.

ETA: I admit it took me years to be able to fully function again in even just everyday stuff after my husband died. I walked around in a daze and to this day I still don't even remember most of those years of my life. It was one big giant black-out. But eventually I got my life back in order when the pain started to subside enough that I could at least walk around without my head in a hole.

Now should something happen to Master, I would probably end up in exactly that same spot again and not because we have a TPE, but because I love him just as much as I loved my husband.



< Message edited by littlewonder -- 5/9/2013 6:56:39 PM >


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RE: Loss of control - 5/9/2013 7:38:49 PM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


Again, I can see that happening for a couple of weeks, but if you can't start taking back control after that, the problem, in my opinion, isn't the break up. There are deeper emotional issues that need to be addressed by a professional.

Hey, I will readily admit that I've had breakups where I could even listen to music without crying because everything reminded me of HIM. But with all grief, you either process and get on with living or you crawl in a hole and die. It's ok to take a short vacation in that hole, but eventually you have to crawl out of it.

Indeed! Both parties bear responsibility here. If you allow yourself to become so absolutely helpless that you can't function without another, you have deep issues that need to be addressed. Additionally, if you take someone into your life and actively groom/enable/encourage them to become so dependent on you that they cannot function if something happens to you, you're a shit 'cuz you could get hit by a bus, ya know, and then what? It takes mature, responsible adults to have healthy BDSM relationships (or any functional relationship, for that matter). Use some sense folks........luci

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RE: Loss of control - 5/9/2013 8:23:43 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


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Honestly, I really have not thought much about the effects of lost control when reading posts. I find this rather interesting that you've pointed it out.

I know a few which have had a hard time dealing without somebody else controlling their day to day life. While I can understand it, I don't find it an attractive quality in a sub/slave. The bad choices and decisions being made which defy logic and common sense even.

Though this is just one of many possible aspects relating to lost control. It's what's coming to my mind first and foremost for personal reasons.

I think second to that, my mind focuses upon the Illusion of control, and then the day/moment when the illusion has become shattered or broken. Dealing with the reality that one has lost control over something which they never were in control of to begin with.

My third thought, is seeing how devastated another person is by no longer being controlled or in control. Where it's changed so many aspects of their day to day life and routines. On top of missing the other person.

It's amazing to talk and find out, if it's the routine or the person they are missing the most. It all seems to go hand in hand.

Interesting topic.



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RE: Loss of control - 5/9/2013 10:54:37 PM   
NuevaVida


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~ Fast Reply ~

I love this topic, tazzy, thanks for posting it. And I've enjoyed reading the replies. It's going to be hard but I'll try not to make my own reply too long winded.

Also, I wanted to say I really loved Rawni's post. Especially the last paragraph. That was beautiful.

My former marriage was not D/s, however I was very codependent then and he was very controlling/domineering. When I left him after nearly 20 years, I really didn't know who I was anymore, or what I liked, or even what the appropriate reaction/feelings were to certain things in life. So I was probably one of those people with deep issues that luci mentioned. You really can get to a point in life where you don't know what emotions to map to what events. I'm not talking about behaviors, I'm talking about emotions. But that's a whole other topic.

My next relationship was an M/s one, which lasted 4 years. I went into it at an awful time in my life, and he helped me map my emotions. So yes, in a way he did control my emotions. Because I had no personal foundation (and I don't recommend getting into a relationship without knowing yourself and having your own foundation first), he became my foundation. This took some time on his part, and call it TPE, call it brainwashing, call it Internal Enslavement, call it a mix of all three, call it fucked up, call it anything else, but he became my center. If I wasn't sure how to feel about something, he'd bring me to feel what he wanted me to. He had that level of control over me.

Toward the end, things weren't going well, and he wasn't able to control my emotions so much. I was depressed and angry a lot (induced by his actions), and when he couldn't re-map those emotions, he let me go (long story here not pertinent to this conversation). While we knew things were bad, I was in no way prepared to be dropped like that, especially the way he did it.

So in the blink of an eye, my center was gone. To say it was devastating is an understatement. Mostly I was in shock. I didn't know how to react to it. I didn't know what to think or feel. Hell, there were some moments when I just needed a dear friend (from these boards) to get on the phone and breathe with me, literally telling me, "Breathe in...ok now breathe out."

It wasn't the loss of structure for me that did me in. It was the loss of my center.

I did not come to the boards about this. I spoke only to those closest to me. They didn't give me any schpeal about sucking it up, or how I shouldn't have put myself in that position to begin with, or tell me to "just move on." They sat with me while I sobbed, and spent hours talking to me and listening to me as I worked through it.

So yeah, people really can be completely lost when an enslavement ends.

The thing I had going for me (in addition to the wonderful people in my life) was that I knew if I was going to get through this, I had to take ownership of myself back, and that's what I did. It's kind of a blur now but I'd say it was about a 3-4 month process, with lingering effects that lasted about a year or more.

I as an emotional masochist. Sexyred1 asked "If you are an emotional masochist, don't you enjoy it?" Um, no. My emotional masochism was certainly not tied to feeling like a dog dumped on the side of the road, not knowing which direction to turn. It was more tied to my feelings being hurt, or being defiled, but knowing I had a place to come back to (him). When my relationship ended, the only place I had to come back to was me, and I didn't know who that was, without him.

It's not a place I'll ever go again. I'm not even capable of going there again, for many reasons. But if I see someone post on the boards about a relationship ending and I sense they're even close to feeling what I felt then, I will compassionately advise them to take ownership of themselves back, and that forward movement might take baby steps. Usually I don't reply to those threads, but if I sense a real sense of feeling lost, then I advise what worked for me.

And it looks like I did get winded after all, but I felt like there were a lot of points in this thread I wanted to address.

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RE: Loss of control - 5/9/2013 11:23:26 PM   
LafayetteLady


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I in no way want to minimize what you went through, and kudos for finding your way out. However, you felt the same way in your vanilla marriage, which leads back to a person needing to be whole to begin with. As you say, since you have now taken the necessary steps, should your current relationship end, you will be able to handle it much differently than you did in the past, because now you have taken the steps to develop those skills.

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RE: Loss of control - 5/9/2013 11:35:58 PM   
NuevaVida


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Not minimizing at all, so no worries. I completely agree about being whole first. My marriage was not M/s but I was very submissive in it, to the point of being very codependent. So there were actually a lot of similarities to the M/s relationship (one of which was that they were both really unhealthy!!). In both relationships I was dependent on the other for my sense of purpose. I wasn't whole to begin with. And that might be some of what we see on the boards, when submissives post about how lost they are from a break up. So I empathize with that.

And I totally agree about things being much different if my current relationship ends. About a year and a half ago we came to a cross roads and seriously considered ending it. I cried for two days, then picked up the cat and said, "Looks like it's gonna be just you & me again."

OK that sounds totally cold, and of course I'd grieve, but I would not be lost. And I think that's because I remain my own foundation.

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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 12:56:56 AM   
LadyPact


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NV, I think you probably get tired of Me saying this so often, but you do an excellent job posting about your prior relationships. You never cease to amaze Me.

I am wondering if it makes a difference in the s-type being monogamous. Not trying to stick My foot in My mouth here but one of the advantages of being poly is that in some situations where a person has two relationships and one of them ends, the relationship that is still in tact is automatic support. Doesn't apply to triads, of course, where it would be a sub joining a couple because then you lose the authority structure and two relationships. When the relationships are completely separate, the s-type still has a loving relationship to rely on.


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The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 6:35:16 AM   
MsEloquence


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Joined: 5/7/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The problem with expecting the community at large to support the sub is that it's analogous to expecting all your friends to hiss at your ex when you get divorced. It's not fair to tell people 'well, if you're friends with him, then you aren't my friend any more'.

The person in mourning needs to find real friends, not just an amorphous online community to be their support system.

I don't want to be dragged into your divorce. If you aren't good company at cocktail parties yet, stay home. Which here means if you can't stop yourself dragging your problems into every other thread, stay off the computer.





Each paragraph is better than the previous.

Thanks

(typos)

< Message edited by MsEloquence -- 5/10/2013 6:42:08 AM >


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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 6:36:00 AM   
littleclip


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i have seen many s-typs lost without support and going into a frenzy or getting out of control when the dynamic ends this is espcialy true when the dynamic is cut off meaning no further contact at all the s-type will be greiving and upset and not have means of dealing with them by not having a outlet it just feeds on itself till a outlet is found either a new person to replace the one lost or them doing regretable actions to deal with the feelings inside.
just my observations here im not a shrink

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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 6:49:02 AM   
Missokyst


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How would this work?
From my limited observation I noted that within one group (15 at its largest), still had issues when a split happened. At least in that case the cast off member had many people now ignoring her/him. So, loss of one mate was magnified. I cannot imagine how harsh that must have felt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

NV, I think you probably get tired of Me saying this so often, but you do an excellent job posting about your prior relationships. You never cease to amaze Me.

I am wondering if it makes a difference in the s-type being monogamous. Not trying to stick My foot in My mouth here but one of the advantages of being poly is that in some situations where a person has two relationships and one of them ends, the relationship that is still in tact is automatic support. Doesn't apply to triads, of course, where it would be a sub joining a couple because then you lose the authority structure and two relationships. When the relationships are completely separate, the s-type still has a loving relationship to rely on.




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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 7:34:54 AM   
chatterbox24


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My personal opinion is this. Some people get over loss quicker then others. Just as for an example when you train someone for a position at a job, some individuals have more experience or are just naturals and pick it up very quickly, while the next individual may have less experience or just a longer learning curb. In the end, whether it took a month to learn or 6 months, doesn't mean one employee ends up better then the other. People should be allowed to grieve at their own pace, not how long we determine.
Another consideration and observation I have found is, some people run much deeper then others. Some give totally of their heart, where others really never do. Some people are warm, where others can be quite cold. They lack the depth of feelings and emotions that other individuals feel, so my theory is, they can not quite understand ever. These individuals lack some compassion. If you give totally of yourself, and that relationship ends, it can be quite devastating. I think it has a lot to do with on how many levels you depended on that partner. You certainly don't require as much heal time for a sexual relationship ONLY, vs. a TPE relationship where you gave everything then BAAM its over. You haven't thought for yourself, and all the sudden you have too, what a shock to a slaves system. More things to get under control.
I think Doms, since they are under control always (or suppose to be) are continuously practicing this, and when a relationship ends, it might hurt, but the level of hurt isn't as profound. They haven't been in the position for their partner to make decisions for them, they make them. So they are mainly dealing with emotional pain or doing the dishes themselves, not life altering changes on top of that.
People deal with loss in all kinds of ways, some of it might seem non productive to us or even whiney and destructive, but the person has suffered a loss. Not all people just can quickly regain their momentum and say " Hey its over! time to do it on my own" it takes longer.
Before I had kids, I said a mouth full of nonsense, how I wouldn't do this or that, allow this or that.....guess what I did it!!! Because until I had kids, I didn't have a clue.

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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 8:09:37 AM   
Missokyst


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That is kind of true of me. Most of my relationships have had a nice... detachment. I don't love easily, but I can like you and want you a hell of a lot. Love for me is a permanant situation even after the relationship ends. I don't generally do the harsh "can't stand you anymore" type of break. It really doesn't have a thing to do with my being submissive, it is just my quirky nature. I think everyone, dom or sub, nilla or what ever is human; no control over themselves overrides the devastation one can feel when the break destroys a dream.


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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 8:18:47 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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It's that "sense of purpose," and "being your own foundation," that I find to be pivotal. Of course a sub should be dedicated to their dominant, but should this one person be their sense of purpose? Should someone else ever be the foundation of making you a whole person? I think in all relationships, those things should exist, but if you have no sense of purpose tied to yourself, or believe you are nothing (no foundation) without that other person, things are not going to end well.

Like LP said, you put things in a very eloquent way, and it shows that your growth and journey was all on you, not someone else.

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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 8:23:12 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

My personal opinion is this. Some people get over loss quicker then others. Just as for an example when you train someone for a position at a job, some individuals have more experience or are just naturals and pick it up very quickly, while the next individual may have less experience or just a longer learning curb. In the end, whether it took a month to learn or 6 months, doesn't mean one employee ends up better then the other. People should be allowed to grieve at their own pace, not how long we determine.
Another consideration and observation I have found is, some people run much deeper then others. Some give totally of their heart, where others really never do. Some people are warm, where others can be quite cold. They lack the depth of feelings and emotions that other individuals feel, so my theory is, they can not quite understand ever. These individuals lack some compassion. If you give totally of yourself, and that relationship ends, it can be quite devastating. I think it has a lot to do with on how many levels you depended on that partner. You certainly don't require as much heal time for a sexual relationship ONLY, vs. a TPE relationship where you gave everything then BAAM its over. You haven't thought for yourself, and all the sudden you have too, what a shock to a slaves system. More things to get under control.
I think Doms, since they are under control always (or suppose to be) are continuously practicing this, and when a relationship ends, it might hurt, but the level of hurt isn't as profound. They haven't been in the position for their partner to make decisions for them, they make them. So they are mainly dealing with emotional pain or doing the dishes themselves, not life altering changes on top of that.
People deal with loss in all kinds of ways, some of it might seem non productive to us or even whiney and destructive, but the person has suffered a loss. Not all people just can quickly regain their momentum and say " Hey its over! time to do it on my own" it takes longer.
Before I had kids, I said a mouth full of nonsense, how I wouldn't do this or that, allow this or that.....guess what I did it!!! Because until I had kids, I didn't have a clue.


I have consistently agreed that people need to take their own time to grieve, but my point has also been that if you grieve 6 months for a relationship that was only a few weeks, then something is wrong. We constantly advise people not to jump in the deep end quickly, but rather to take the time to really get to know someone. If you are that deep into someone in a month that you can't live without them, I see some co-dependency issues.


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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 8:49:02 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

NV, I think you probably get tired of Me saying this so often, but you do an excellent job posting about your prior relationships. You never cease to amaze Me.

Heh....I do not tire of it at all, in fact, it means a lot to me, and actually encourages me to continue posting. I post to hopefully give understanding as to how such situations can transpire, and to possibly provide some insight to those in similar circumstances. It's been an amazing journey for me, and I don't look back with any regret.

quote:


I am wondering if it makes a difference in the s-type being monogamous. Not trying to stick My foot in My mouth here but one of the advantages of being poly is that in some situations where a person has two relationships and one of them ends, the relationship that is still in tact is automatic support. Doesn't apply to triads, of course, where it would be a sub joining a couple because then you lose the authority structure and two relationships. When the relationships are completely separate, the s-type still has a loving relationship to rely on.


I'm only guessing here because it's not something I experienced. But I would guess there would still be a sense of loss and a great void, although possibly mitigated a bit by still having some consistency with the current partner. But I really don't know. I liken it to when one of my sisters estranged herself from the family. I still had 3 other siblings in my life, and we all stepped up for each other to fill the void of the one sister leaving. Yet there was still a very real and difficult sense of loss to lose someone who was so dear to me. Perhaps if she had been my ONLY sister, it would have been even harder because then I'd have no siblings at all.

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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 8:54:40 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

It's that "sense of purpose," and "being your own foundation," that I find to be pivotal. Of course a sub should be dedicated to their dominant, but should this one person be their sense of purpose? Should someone else ever be the foundation of making you a whole person? I think in all relationships, those things should exist, but if you have no sense of purpose tied to yourself, or believe you are nothing (no foundation) without that other person, things are not going to end well.

Like LP said, you put things in a very eloquent way, and it shows that your growth and journey was all on you, not someone else.

Should one person be another's sense of purpose? For me, no, that would not be healthy. Nor do I recommend it for others. But we see it here from time to time, so it's a very real concept, and it does happen. I've seen slaves post about it, and I agree - if that relationship ever ends, it is going to be devastating for that slave. This is why, in threads from submissives/slaves that are about feeling completely lost after a break up, I advise to take ownership of themselves back. I became the owner of myself, and learned to look to myself for decisions and direction. It was immeasurable in my own development.

It's very easy to say "You should be your own foundation" but not everyone comes into adulthood with those tools, or even understanding that they need those tools. I sure didn't. And yes, it was on me to figure that out, but that can be a long and difficult process. So I try to have understanding that others might be in the same boat.

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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 9:06:14 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The problem with expecting the community at large to support the sub is that it's analogous to expecting all your friends to hiss at your ex when you get divorced. It's not fair to tell people 'well, if you're friends with him, then you aren't my friend any more'.

The person in mourning needs to find real friends, not just an amorphous online community to be their support system.

I don't want to be dragged into your divorce. If you aren't good company at cocktail parties yet, stay home. Which here means if you can't stop yourself dragging your problems into every other thread, stay off the computer.




I dont need to hiss at my friend's ex to support them. Thats not support, thats enabling. Sort of like that friend who will swing the bat as they ask "Who we mad at today?" Thats not my definition of a friend or support.

As far as the "amorphous system on line... how many times have we seen people say... no one in my off line life knows. How do you explain this type of break up?

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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 9:49:43 AM   
NuevaVida


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Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


As far as the "amorphous system on line... how many times have we seen people say... no one in my off line life knows. How do you explain this type of break up?


It was a friend I met through these discussion boards who was the most crucial and helpful to me during my M/s break up. Another friend from these boards was also a great support. Only one other person in my life knew the details of that relationship and she was in Europe at the time it happened. I still didn't come to the boards with it - frankly I was just too embarrassed and ashamed. But my online friends were all I had at that time.

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RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 11:00:46 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
How would this work?
From my limited observation I noted that within one group (15 at its largest), still had issues when a split happened. At least in that case the cast off member had many people now ignoring her/him. So, loss of one mate was magnified. I cannot imagine how harsh that must have felt.
I'm looking at it from a different angle of poly. Since chatterbox is on the thread, I can use her for what I mean. Hopefully, I won't make any mistakes.

If I recall correctly, chatterbox is married to her primary partner who is more or less the vanilla guy. At one time, she had a Dominant as well. When the situation with the Dominant ended, she still had the marriage and the husband to rely on. So, while she lost the authority dynamic and the Dom, she still had a loving relationship in her life.

Same thing when the dynamic I had with the sub who introduced Me to this site ended. My other half was My built in support system. I didn't feel unloved or alone because I obviously wasn't.

That's the dynamic stuff. There's also the play angle.

I play casually whether I'm in a dynamic or not. Unlike people who only engage in BDSM in a relationship, that's another area where is isn't a loss to Me. Probably not terribly high on the list of priorities when a person is grieving the absence of a dynamic but it's in there somewhere.





_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Loss of control - 5/10/2013 11:13:27 AM   
littleclip


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yes the ignoring of a person is most harsh and isolating it can be compounded by not having any support from the former group. it can be very troubling to the one cast out. it can lead to unwanted consequences. as a nurse i can relate to the need for someone to talk to as i get many patients that talk to me as they have no other to talk to.
just my 2 bits worth

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