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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
What's funny about this dissertation is that this is the same stupid argument that people have been using since the beginning of America to justify bigotry towards recent immigrant groups.
Irish Catholics were considered stupid and lazy by the Protestant majority when they first started coming in large numbers to the U.S.
Ditto for Italian Catholics and Eastern Europeans.
Would anyone of Irish, Italian or Eastern European descent care to take on both the notion that the Irish, Italian and Eastern European immigrants were stupid and the notion that intelligence is hereditary?
(And how, pray tell, are we getting such a high IQ number in the dissertation if that figure is including Americans of Irish, Italian and Eastern European descent)????
For heavens sakes, this argument has been used EVERY time a new group of people arrive. And it holds as much water today as it did back then.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
What's funny about this dissertation is that this is the same stupid argument that people have been using since the beginning of America to justify bigotry towards recent immigrant groups.
Irish Catholics were considered stupid and lazy by the Protestant majority when they first started coming in large numbers to the U.S.
Ditto for Italian Catholics and Eastern Europeans.
Would anyone of Irish, Italian or Eastern European descent care to take on both the notion that the Irish, Italian and Eastern European immigrants were stupid and the notion that intelligence is hereditary?
(And how, pray tell, are we getting such a high IQ number in the dissertation if that figure is including Americans of Irish, Italian and Eastern European descent)????
For heavens sakes, this argument has been used EVERY time a new group of people arrive. And it holds as much water today as it did back then.

Did the criticisms of new immigrants have statistical studies as the basis for the claim?

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Let's just take last 2 sentences and see what they say:

Children’s genetic ancestry, then, is hardly a surefire predictor of what their own potential is likely to be.


Genetic ancestry is not a surefire predictor. By stating that it is hardly a surefire predictor actually says it is a predictor, just not a surefire one.

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Which, not surprisingly, does say that genetic ancestry does play a role. Imagine that. But, let's go on to the next sentence...

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Do low IQ parents lead to low IQ children? Actually, to some degree, that's accurate. Not a guarantee, but in general, yes.

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Where is the bigotry?

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So, thrice again, my links do support the claim that intelligence has heredity as a factor.

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Not once has anyone brought up any link stating that heredity plays no part. Even Ron's blither blather shows that there is a correlation between heredity and intelligence.

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Now, on to the support that the report was bigoted?

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR
While I think it is very well established the Richwine is a racist of the worst sort I would like to brig attention to the report he authored for the Heritage foundation.
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/05/the-fiscal-cost-of-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-to-the-us-taxpayer

Basically he bases a series of calculations on the assumption that illgeal immgrants will not make one penny more if their status is regularized. He also assumes their children will not puruse higher education and will also be very poor thorought ther lives. Has there ever been an immigrant group for which these predictions have been true?

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

What's funny about this dissertation is that this is the same stupid argument that people have been using since the beginning of America to justify bigotry towards recent immigrant groups.

Irish Catholics were considered stupid and lazy by the Protestant majority when they first started coming in large numbers to the U.S.

Ditto for Italian Catholics and Eastern Europeans.

Would anyone of Irish, Italian or Eastern European descent care to take on both the notion that the Irish, Italian and Eastern European immigrants were stupid and the notion that intelligence is hereditary?

(And how, pray tell, are we getting such a high IQ number in the dissertation if that figure is including Americans of Irish, Italian and Eastern European descent)????

For heavens sakes, this argument has been used EVERY time a new group of people arrive. And it holds as much water today as it did back then.

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
What's funny about this dissertation is that this is the same stupid argument that people have been using since the beginning of America to justify bigotry towards recent immigrant groups.
Irish Catholics were considered stupid and lazy by the Protestant majority when they first started coming in large numbers to the U.S.
Ditto for Italian Catholics and Eastern Europeans.
Would anyone of Irish, Italian or Eastern European descent care to take on both the notion that the Irish, Italian and Eastern European immigrants were stupid and the notion that intelligence is hereditary?
(And how, pray tell, are we getting such a high IQ number in the dissertation if that figure is including Americans of Irish, Italian and Eastern European descent)????
For heavens sakes, this argument has been used EVERY time a new group of people arrive. And it holds as much water today as it did back then.

Did the criticisms of new immigrants have statistical studies as the basis for the claim?

You don't understand the point, do you?

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It isn't being blamed on their race.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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It isn't being blamed on their race.

What is it being blamed on?

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quote:

It's not being blamed on anything, DC. It's a statement of fact regarding the test subject group. That's it.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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It's not being blamed on anything, DC. It's a statement of fact regarding the test subject group. That's it.

You're either not grasping, or willfully ignoring, the context in which this "statement of fact" appears--a dissertation entitled "IQ and Immigration Policy." The whole thrust of his argument is that immigrants are dumber than whites. He flatly says so, though in jargon, right in the abstract of his work. He repeats the point in his conclusion, saying that the intelligence disparity will have "substantial negative effects" on the U.S. economy and society.
Try replacing "immigrants" in Richwine's phrasing with "African Americans" or "Jews" or "women," and it might become clearer why his work troubles folks.

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quote:

I don't think your point applies in this situation. If the data shows that, statistically, the group of Hispanic immigrants (which is not the same as the group of Hispanics en toto) to the US, has a lower IQ compared to white American Citizens, then, that's what the data shows. It isn't being blamed on their race. It isn't something that isn't being shown to be true. And, we're talking averages, too. Back in the days of the First-Fourth Waves, they were simply xenophobic. No one was doing any statistical analysis. There was no proof.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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It's not being blamed on anything, DC. It's a statement of fact regarding the test subject group. That's it.

You're either not grasping, or willfully ignoring, the context in which this "statement of fact" appears--a dissertation entitled "IQ and Immigration Policy." The whole thrust of his argument is that immigrants are dumber than whites. He flatly says so, though in jargon, right in the abstract of his work. He repeats the point in his conclusion, saying that the intelligence disparity will have "substantial negative effects" on the U.S. economy and society.
Try replacing "immigrants" in Richwine's phrasing with "African Americans" or "Jews" or "women," and it might become clearer why his work troubles folks.

Actually, what he's saying is that the statistics they have compiled indicate that the average IQ of Hispanic immigrants is lower than whites that are current citizens. That may well be the case, no?

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The dissertation does not say they will never reach parity. It does say it'll take several generations, but it doesn't say they won't reach it. And, for a person who is so on about "if the article meant that, it would have said that," there is no indication as to what was bigoted, either.

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Actually, what he's saying is that the statistics they have compiled indicate that the average IQ of Hispanic immigrants is lower than whites that are current citizens.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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Do low IQ parents lead to low IQ children? Actually, to some degree, that's accurate. Not a guarantee, but in general, yes.

From your posted site:
This is not to say that children are predestined to have an intelligence level similar to that of their biological parents. In fact, most children with high intelligence are conceived by parents of average intelligence rather than by parents with high IQ scores (Plomin & Petrill, 1997). Children’s genetic ancestry, then, is hardly a surefire predictor of what their own potential is likely to be. Environment also makes an appreciable difference, as we shall now see.
Doesn't this say that smart kids come from parents who are dumber than the kids. Which is the opposite of what is posted above.

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Where is the bigotry?

I see ignorance

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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So, thrice again, my links do support the claim that intelligence has heredity as a factor.

To those who can read all the posted links have done is point out a truism that was never part of the dscussion. What the discussion is about is the biggoted dissertation written by this fucking clown.

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Not once has anyone brought up any link stating that heredity plays no part. Even Ron's blither blather shows that there is a correlation between heredity and intelligence.

Who has denied it?

Everyone who has argued against my assertion and the links I've put up.

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Now, on to the support that the report was bigoted?

Any idea how difficult it is to discuss something with sith someone who refuses to read the item in question? Until one reads the dissertation it would be difficult to discuss it.
Have you any idea what iq is? I have asked you more than a few times. If we cannot define iq then how can we discuss it?/b]

I do have an idea what IQ is. Do you not know?

I read the article. The OP makes the claim that the dissertation is bigoted, basing that allegation on the article. Nowhere in the article is there any proven bigotry. What more needs to be read? If Owner thought the dissertation was bigoted, why not post the dissertation?

_____________________________

What I support:

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(in reply to thompsonx)