RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (Full Version)

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MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/15/2013 9:54:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, for every 12 tits that dont contract it, she loses 2.

I did not see where the 1/6 came from, and I had read somewhere it was an 87% chance she would contract it. 


Actually it is in between 1/7th and 1/8th. The main problem is that genetics really hasn't progressed so far that they can tell these things with any accuracy. This is an actress ruining a perfectly good pair of breasts on the advice of a quack.

Want to know my reaction to, "Quack!" I raise my shotgun and get myself some dinner. Her reaction was to ruin a piece of art that puts Leonardo to shame.




Aynne88 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/16/2013 7:56:32 PM)

No one here seems to really be discussing or understanding the huge link between diet and cancer, yes even with this gene. She did not need to have this done, Japanese women have a very large incident of carrying this same gene and one of the lowest rates of breast cancer. We can heal ourselves and while I do not envy being a mother in that position she was in, I would have looked into other options first.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/vegan-diet-cancer_b_2250052.html

From the article:

"How may a simple dietary change make one's bloodstream so inhospitable to cancer in just a matter of days? The dramatic improvement in cancer defenses after two weeks of eating healthier is thought to be due to changes in the level of a cancer-promoting growth hormone in the body called IGF-1. Animal protein intake increases the levels of IGF-1 in our body, but within two weeks of switching to a plant-based diet, IGF-1 levels in the bloodstream drop sufficiently to help slow the growth of cancer cells.

How plant-based do we need to eat? Studies comparing levels of IGF-1 in meat-eaters vs. vegetarians vs. vegans suggest that we should lean toward eliminating animal products from our diets altogether. This is supported by the new study in which the thousands of American vegans studied not only had lower rates of obesity, diabetes, and hypertension, but significantly lower cancer risk as well.

This makes sense when you consider the research done by Drs. Dean Ornish and Nobel Prize winner Elizabeth Blackburn; they found that a vegan diet caused more than 500 genes to change in only three months, turning on genes that prevent disease and turning off genes that cause breast cancer, heart disease, prostate cancer, and other illnesses. This is empowering news, given that most people think they are a victim of their genes, helpless to stave off some of the most dreaded diseases. We aren't helpless at all; in fact, the power is largely in our hands. It's on our forks, actually."




FrostedFlake -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/16/2013 8:44:06 PM)

Aynne has probably got something there. You are what you eat.




sexyred1 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/16/2013 8:59:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

She had a 1 in 6 chance of not contracting cancer. Assuming that the doctor she was talking to actually understands statistics. That is a huge assumption.

No doctor who cleaves to the Hippocratic Oath would have performed that surgery "First, do no harm."

And let's face it, he did alot of harm. She had a righteous pair of tits before listening to this quack.

My Aunt Diana died of breast cancer. She had two mastectomies when it was absolutely necessary. To say that I am angry is to say that the sky is kind of bluish.


You are angry? At what? She made a smart decision based on her wanting to have a better chance of not getting cancer and being there for her kids.

Her decision was not made on having a "righteous" pair of tits. Jeez.

Her love for her family is the most righteous thing about her.




ResidentSadist -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/16/2013 9:27:29 PM)

They put her new tits together with cadaver skin . . . we talking zombie tits?




jlf1961 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/16/2013 9:29:28 PM)

1 in 6 chance of not contracting cancer.

Sorry but that is not good odds. She made the decision based on all information available.

I feel she did what was right for her.




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 7:53:26 AM)

I realize some people are getting good results with diet, but that line of treatment is not really proved or studied systematically enough to ensure good results. And for many types of cancer, current medical treatments give much better survival rates. So all things considered, I wouldn't fault someone for taking what they saw as the most certain course of action. It is a fact that Steve Jobs did try to treat his cancer using alternative methods and waited too late to start medical treatment that could have saved his life. Today, with the information that we have, I think diet makes an excellent additional treatment option, but I personally don't feel everyone with either a high risk of cancer or cancer itself should limit themselves solely to alternative methods. And again, I say personally. The amount of risk one is willing to assume is ultimately a very personal choice and only that person can answer what feels most comfortable for them. If people feel comfortable enough choosing diet thats great, but not everyone will feel comfortable doing that. And some of the statistics on medical procedures (like mastectomy) are actually very good.

I would like to see more research on diet - I think we don't know enough about what diet can do. And I'm a big believer in holistic approaches. I have combatted many things, such as allergies, using diet and alternative methods. But cancer is another thing entirely. I come from a cultural background that is predominantly vegetarian. Indian Hindus still get and die from cancer. I support more funding for these treatment options so we can have more information about diet. I'm comfortable testing out dietary options for my allergies; not so comfortable, personally, on using myself as guinea pig when it comes to cancer, because as Jobs discovered, time is an important factor in battling cancer, once it strikes. But my vegetarian family members who led very healthy lives, but still died of cancer - I'm not sure that the preventative diet worked for them. We need more information. [sm=2cents.gif]




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 8:13:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

This is an actress ruining a perfectly good pair of breasts on the advice of a quack.

Want to know my reaction to, "Quack!" I raise my shotgun and get myself some dinner. Her reaction was to ruin a piece of art that puts Leonardo to shame.


It's exactly this kind of attitude that makes me proud that Jolie has gone public about her decision in such a thoughtful way. Women need to be able to make a decision without worrying about this kind os sexist attitude. A woman is not just her breasts.

The doctor is not a quack - lots of women get mastectomies, and many do for exactly the same reason. Perhaps one day they will come up with less invasive ways of achieving the same results. But right now, with the information that she has, and knowing when her mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, Jolie took the one option that gave her the best odds. And if I were a gambler that's what I would have done, too.

You are entitled to take whatever risks you want in your own life. And if you want to engage in high risk activity, that's not for any of the rest of us to criticize. But telling a woman that her role as wife and mother is less important than her being eye candy to you is really distasteful. Seriously. [&:]





MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 8:39:16 AM)

Here's the fun bit:

I am not being sexist, although I can see how you might think that.

Bad science is bad science. Cruddy hypothesis leads to cruddy theory. Cruddy theory leads to bad advice. Bad advice leads to ruination of a work of art.

Yes, Ms. Jolie is way more than a pair of tits. I understand this. I think she's a fine actress. Not the best actress, but passable.

Also, she used to have a great pair of tits. :-)




Aynne88 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 9:04:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I realize some people are getting good results with diet, but that line of treatment is not really proved or studied systematically enough to ensure good results. And for many types of cancer, current medical treatments give much better survival rates. So all things considered, I wouldn't fault someone for taking what they saw as the most certain course of action. It is a fact that Steve Jobs did try to treat his cancer using alternative methods and waited too late to start medical treatment that could have saved his life. Today, with the information that we have, I think diet makes an excellent additional treatment option, but I personally don't feel everyone with either a high risk of cancer or cancer itself should limit themselves solely to alternative methods. And again, I say personally. The amount of risk one is willing to assume is ultimately a very personal choice and only that person can answer what feels most comfortable for them. If people feel comfortable enough choosing diet thats great, but not everyone will feel comfortable doing that. And some of the statistics on medical procedures (like mastectomy) are actually very good.

I would like to see more research on diet - I think we don't know enough about what diet can do. And I'm a big believer in holistic approaches. I have combatted many things, such as allergies, using diet and alternative methods. But cancer is another thing entirely. I come from a cultural background that is predominantly vegetarian. Indian Hindus still get and die from cancer. I support more funding for these treatment options so we can have more information about diet. I'm comfortable testing out dietary options for my allergies; not so comfortable, personally, on using myself as guinea pig when it comes to cancer, because as Jobs discovered, time is an important factor in battling cancer, once it strikes. But my vegetarian family members who led very healthy lives, but still died of cancer - I'm not sure that the preventative diet worked for them. We need more information. [sm=2cents.gif]


I don't want to be argumentative on this at all fucktoy, but you said your vegetarian family.....it is dairy that causes so much of this particular gene to thrive, eliminating dairy makes proven huge beneficial changes in this type of cancer and it's growth. So it's vegan diets with no dairy that I am talking about. Dairy causes incredible harm to the human body. Truly we are just not meant to consume it. Ever.




yourdarkdesire -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 9:27:14 AM)

I think Angeline should lauded not only for her courageous decision, but her forthrightness about what she has done. My mom died of breast cancer 11 years ago. She was diagnosed before she turned 60, monumentally increasing her risks. Her cancer was not gene based, but estrogen based, caused by the long term use of Premarin and Provera to treat menopause. I completely blame her gp, as these drugs are meant for short term use only.

My best friend lost her mom shortly after I did, but to uterine cancer. She had also battled breast cancer. My friend and her sister both got tested. My friend had the gene for uterine cancer, her sister the breast cancer. They quickly had their second children, and then did what they thought best, and I am proud of them both




sexyred1 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 9:32:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

Here's the fun bit:

I am not being sexist, although I can see how you might think that.

Bad science is bad science. Cruddy hypothesis leads to cruddy theory. Cruddy theory leads to bad advice. Bad advice leads to ruination of a work of art.

Yes, Ms. Jolie is way more than a pair of tits. I understand this. I think she's a fine actress. Not the best actress, but passable.

Also, she used to have a great pair of tits. :-)


Now you are just being annoying.




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 9:44:22 AM)

I come from genetic stock that is also highly lactose intolerant. And even in a vegetarian diet in India, particularly the part of India that my ancestors are from, there isn't a lot of dairy in the diet - not compared to Western diets. Quite frankly, it's too expensive and spoils too easily in a climate and region where historically not everyone had easy access to refrigeration.

I understand what you are saying about a vegan diet, but Steve Jobs still died and he could have been saved with medical science. And that is just as much a truth.

I just think this is a personal decision. I don't dispute that if you faced cancer of any sort you would fight it with diet. And that's great. But not all of us need to make that choice. And given that I have seen people who have been vegan and organic their entire lives (part of my family are farmers), and still get cancer, for me, personally, the jury is still out on diet. If you and your family members are getting good results with diet, that's great. More power to you. It didn't help some of my family members. And that also, remains a fact (that I live with). And as it is indisputable that cancer has a genetic link, forgive me, but I'm going with the results of my genetics and not with yours. This is not meant to be personal. I am literally just saying that the decision on treatment needs to be an individual one based on each individual's own situation. And for me, the data just isn't there on diet for me to use that personally. So, I would like to see more research before I could use diet.




Hollyucinogen -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 10:05:16 AM)

I agree with you in a way - I honestly believe that people are not supposed to be drinking milk, at least not in large quantities (think about it, how many other mammals do you know that drink milk past infancy?), but I don't necessarily think that eliminating milk from your diet is going to cure your cancer. I'm a vegetarian who eats only eggs - no dairy products at all except for yogurt, which I consume probably once every two months or so - and I still have all sorts of health problems. Most of the females in my family are more or less vegetarian, and there's still a strong history of breast cancer and uterine cancer. Oftentimes genetics and environment enmesh to create the perfect environment for cancer to grow, but not for everybody, and it's not always both. That being said:

I probably would have made the same choice as her given the same information. And even if you all think she's stupid, the fact is that she and her doctor know things that you don't about her, her family history, and medicine, period. And even if you knew everything she knew about it and STILL thought she was stupid for doing it, I don't really care, because it's her choice, and it obviously wasn't an easy one to make.




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 11:41:52 AM)

p.s. I just want to clarify something. My stance on diet is about cancer in particular - and really focused on prevention and treatment.

I think using diet and, particularly cardio/high intensity exercise to maintain overall good health is EXTREMELY important. I eat carefully, and work out regularly. I am certainly not encouraging people to lead unhealthy lives and rely only on surgery to cure what ails.

I am speaking very specifically of high risk cancer situations where unfortunately, surgery is often an important part of both prevention and treatment. I look forward to the day when that is NOT true, but we are not there, yet. And until we are there, I think surgical and invasive options will continue to be part of the picture of cancer treatment and prevention.

We are not even at the stage where cancer can be diagnosed without an invasive procedure (biopsy). :(




JeffBC -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 11:52:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Of course, this also reminds me how great it is to live with universalized healthcare. It simply hadn't occured to me to consider that this might not be covered.

And don't forget that "covered" implies "insured" -- which is FAR FAR from a certain thing in the US. I would personally guess there are VAST swathes of US women who could not make the same choice Ms. Jolie did.




crazyml -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 11:56:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

No one here seems to really be discussing or understanding the huge link between diet and cancer, yes even with this gene.


That'll most likely be because it's pretty tangental to the topic.

quote:



She did not need to have this done,


I imagine that she thought pretty carefully about it, and came to the conclusion that she did need to have it done.

quote:



Japanese women have a very large incident of carrying this same gene and one of the lowest rates of breast cancer. We can heal ourselves and while I do not envy being a mother in that position she was in, I would have looked into other options first.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/vegan-diet-cancer_b_2250052.html

From the article:

"How may a simple dietary change make one's bloodstream so inhospitable to cancer in just a matter of days? The dramatic improvement in cancer defenses after two weeks of eating healthier is thought to be due to changes in the level of a cancer-promoting growth hormone in the body called IGF-1. Animal protein intake increases the levels of IGF-1 in our body, but within two weeks of switching to a plant-based diet, IGF-1 levels in the bloodstream drop sufficiently to help slow the growth of cancer cells.

How plant-based do we need to eat? Studies comparing levels of IGF-1 in meat-eaters vs. vegetarians vs. vegans suggest that we should lean toward eliminating animal products from our diets altogether. This is supported by the new study in which the thousands of American vegans studied not only had lower rates of obesity, diabetes, and hypertension, but significantly lower cancer risk as well.

This makes sense when you consider the research done by Drs. Dean Ornish and Nobel Prize winner Elizabeth Blackburn; they found that a vegan diet caused more than 500 genes to change in only three months, turning on genes that prevent disease and turning off genes that cause breast cancer, heart disease, prostate cancer, and other illnesses. This is empowering news, given that most people think they are a victim of their genes, helpless to stave off some of the most dreaded diseases. We aren't helpless at all; in fact, the power is largely in our hands. It's on our forks, actually."


You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, not matter how far it flies in the face of the bulk of the scientific evidence. Just as someone like Angelina Jolie is entitled to review the evidence herself and come to her own conclusions.






RochesterDomme -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 11:59:52 AM)

I have breast cancer. Fortunately it is contained in one breast. I should say was as I had a mastectomy a few weeks ago. While I don't have the gene, I was given the option of having both breasts removed. I also have/had the option of reconstruction at time of surgery or waiting until I feel ready. I chose to wait. Federal law requires that I have these options. Had I chosen to have both breasts removed federal law requires insurance to pay for removal of the non-cancerous breast and reconstruction.

You cannot just get the gene test and have insurance pay for it. You have to have a certain number of close family members diagnosed with breast cancer. As stated earlier, I have cancer. I was told I don't have enough family cancer to have the test.

So what's my point? Simple, faced with very difficult decisions I consulted my doctors, several breast cancer survivors, my partner, my family and read about every breast cancer article pertaining to my particular diagnosis. Based on those results, I made the decision best for me. She made a decision based on information she had and decided what was best for her. And anyone beyond her circle of doctors, discussion and research that thinks they know better about what she should have done, is quite mistaken.




MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 12:06:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Now you are just being annoying.


Namaste.




angelikaJ -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 12:32:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

Here's the fun bit:

I am not being sexist, although I can see how you might think that.

Bad science is bad science. Cruddy hypothesis leads to cruddy theory. Cruddy theory leads to bad advice. Bad advice leads to ruination of a work of art.

Yes, Ms. Jolie is way more than a pair of tits. I understand this. I think she's a fine actress. Not the best actress, but passable.

Also, she used to have a great pair of tits. :-)


Bad science?

Bilateral prophylactic mastectomy reduces the risk of breast cancer in women with BRCA1/2 mutations by approximately 90%.
http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/22/6/1055.full

She watched her mother fight the disease of breast cancer and lose, much like your aunt did.

She did not decide on a lark that she wanted her breasts cut off.
She made an informed medical choice after consulting with a Genetic specialist.

The link between having certain genetic mutations and having a much higher risk or developing, either breast or ovarian cancers (or both) has been well researched and well documented.

As far as her having a great pair of tits, she still does.
That is why having an experienced surgeon with expertise in breast reconstruction is important.
In case you didn't read: she kept her own nipples.




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