RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


kalikshama -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 1:58:13 PM)

quote:

No one here seems to really be discussing or understanding the huge link between diet and cancer, yes even with this gene. She did not need to have this done, Japanese women have a very large incident of carrying this same gene and one of the lowest rates of breast cancer. We can heal ourselves and while I do not envy being a mother in that position she was in, I would have looked into other options first.


Thanks Aynne.

What passes for "prevention" in relationship to breast cancer astounds me.




kalikshama -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/17/2013 2:20:58 PM)

quote:

I don't want to be argumentative on this at all fucktoy, but you said your vegetarian family.....it is dairy that causes so much of this particular gene to thrive, eliminating dairy makes proven huge beneficial changes in this type of cancer and it's growth. So it's vegan diets with no dairy that I am talking about. Dairy causes incredible harm to the human body. Truly we are just not meant to consume it. Ever.


Sigh, this may be the encouragement I need to see if eliminating dairy affects my fibroid. I've been resisting this part of Dr. Christiane Northrup's advice for fibroids as the dairy I buy does not contain BGH or rBST.




crazyml -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/18/2013 1:56:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RochesterDomme

I have breast cancer. Fortunately it is contained in one breast. I should say was as I had a mastectomy a few weeks ago. While I don't have the gene, I was given the option of having both breasts removed. I also have/had the option of reconstruction at time of surgery or waiting until I feel ready. I chose to wait. Federal law requires that I have these options. Had I chosen to have both breasts removed federal law requires insurance to pay for removal of the non-cancerous breast and reconstruction.

You cannot just get the gene test and have insurance pay for it. You have to have a certain number of close family members diagnosed with breast cancer. As stated earlier, I have cancer. I was told I don't have enough family cancer to have the test.

So what's my point? Simple, faced with very difficult decisions I consulted my doctors, several breast cancer survivors, my partner, my family and read about every breast cancer article pertaining to my particular diagnosis. Based on those results, I made the decision best for me. She made a decision based on information she had and decided what was best for her. And anyone beyond her circle of doctors, discussion and research that thinks they know better about what she should have done, is quite mistaken.

QFT.

And... best wishes.




RedMagic1 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/18/2013 6:06:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
Dairy causes incredible harm to the human body. Truly we are just not meant to consume it. Ever.

Pendulums swing. An MD I know gave me, yesterday, a printout of Powerpoint slides from a conference at the Mayo Clinic a couple weeks ago, in which the recommendation for calcium intake is now changed from "get it from supplements" to "get as much from dairy as possible." The primary reason for the shift is calcification, i.e., kidney stones. There are also known GI issues to calcium supplements, and calcium supplements are now suspected as risk factors for heart attack and prostate cancer. Again, this is pretty close to "up to the minute" info, though I don't know whether the slides are online, sorry.

A hippie friend of mine suggested to infuse eggshells, and drink that, as a way to get natural calcium without drinking milk. I'm not sure I'll be willing to do that, but all options appear potentially bad.[;)]




lizi -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/18/2013 6:27:24 AM)

That's a good point Red, the only constant in medicine is change. You have to constantly update what you know and make the best decisions you can, and then know that it'll all change again at some point. I view medicine and health as a journey for people to undertake, one where they educate and advocate for themselves as much as possible. After all, we are the ones who know ourselves and our lives the best.

I'm sure Angelina did what she thought was the best, I'd never presume to second guess her choice, which was based on the resources she gathered at the time. What a difficult thing to go through.




littlewonder -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/18/2013 8:06:33 AM)

I highly doubt she got the gene test and then said "Oh well I'll just lop off my boobs and be done with it". I'm guessing she did a ton of research, talked to other doctors and such before she came to such a decision. But I'm sure after finding out her odds and watching her mom die from breast cancer, it became an easier decision for her. I would probably do the same if it came down to dying an early, painful death or being here for my child and Master.




Aynne88 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/18/2013 9:52:36 PM)


I meant no disrespect to her or her choices at all and do not envy her position and am absolutely positive she thought long and hard on this....my point was I think a lot of western practitioners disregard the proven fact that a diet heavy in meat and dairy definitely increased the risk of cancers. And the archaic outdated thinking of many physicians in this country still tout the benefits of the SAD which has been proven to be so detrimental for so many diseases.

Either way she deserves respect and praise for wanting to do what she felt was right to live a long life and to be here for a long time with her children .




tj444 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/18/2013 11:25:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I would like to see more research on diet - I think we don't know enough about what diet can do.

I agree with you, I would like to see more solid research on it also.. while diet can affect your health in a variety of ways.. it is not the only factor at work.. we dont know enough about enviromental issues or interactions between chemicals (& drugs) around us and that end up in us.. There was one Canadian study on the chemicals and stuff in people, one person studied was a famous painter (Robert Bateman) and he was a vegitarian & lived on an island in a rural area.. he had chemicals in him.. they were apparently from the paint he used for his paintings..

Think about the chemicals people come in contact with every day, the stuff you clean your house with (many are extremely strong and bad for you), the chemicals in make up, the chemicals at work, the chemicals in your carpet, your cabinets, drapes, etc used to build your home, the chemicals & stuff in the air we breath.. and of course chemicals in our food... Imo, it is no wonder why cancer has become a major health issue for so many people with all the chemical crap we are exposed to..

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/nov2005/2005-11-15-05.asp




crazyml -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/18/2013 11:35:31 PM)

NM




crazyml -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/18/2013 11:43:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


I meant no disrespect to her or her choices at all and do not envy her position and am absolutely positive she thought long and hard on this....my point was I think a lot of western practitioners disregard the proven fact that a diet heavy in meat and dairy definitely increased the risk of cancers. And the archaic outdated thinking of many physicians in this country still tout the benefits of the SAD which has been proven to be so detrimental for so many diseases.




I mean no disrespect to your point of view but...

It certainly did seem as if you were being disrespectful of her choices. For example you said " I would have looked into other options first." - now come on! Seriously... do you really imagine that she didn't look into other options?

And.. You know, I'm really, really, open to the idea that diet has a huge impact on health. But in your enthusiasm you're exaggerating the effects and grossly overstating the science to the extent that it looks a bit silly.






Aynne88 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/18/2013 11:55:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

I don't want to be argumentative on this at all fucktoy, but you said your vegetarian family.....it is dairy that causes so much of this particular gene to thrive, eliminating dairy makes proven huge beneficial changes in this type of cancer and it's growth. So it's vegan diets with no dairy that I am talking about. Dairy causes incredible harm to the human body. Truly we are just not meant to consume it. Ever.


Sigh, this may be the encouragement I need to see if eliminating dairy affects my fibroid. I've been resisting this part of Dr. Christiane Northrup's advice for fibroids as the dairy I buy does not contain BGH or rBST.



kalikshama I have a ton of articles are sources of excellent info I would be more than happy to pm you if you want I definitely need to stress that obviously I am not a medical professional but I do have RA, systemic lupus and Raynaud's and since I gave up all animal products and diary with one year I was off all meds entirely so I do have some real life experience and of course I still see my GP and balance that with my plant based diet.....but I am always here for you if you ever want to to talk ....... really! I will pm you my number and feel free even if you just want to vent ok?




Aynne88 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/19/2013 12:03:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


I meant no disrespect to her or her choices at all and do not envy her position and am absolutely positive she thought long and hard on this....my point was I think a lot of western practitioners disregard the proven fact that a diet heavy in meat and dairy definitely increased the risk of cancers. And the archaic outdated thinking of many physicians in this country still tout the benefits of the SAD which has been proven to be so detrimental for so many diseases.




I mean no disrespect to your point of view but...

It certainly did seem as if you were being disrespectful of her choices. For example you said " I would have looked into other options first." - now come on! Seriously... do you really imagine that she didn't look into other options?

And.. You know, I'm really, really, open to the idea that diet has a huge impact on health. But in your enthusiasm you're exaggerating the effects and grossly overstating the science to the extent that it looks a bit silly.






That is your opinion ml, I don't think saying something as innocuous as the fact that I would have looked into other options first is disrespectful. I would have. Read my reply below to kalikshama, I am no stranger to having a chronic serious illness....and this worked for me. I speak from my own personal experience and I won't bore you all with the thousands of medical articles that back my point up. Again, having suffered from systemic lupus and RA since I was a teenager, nothing I have researched or put into practice for my health is silly. Silly is not being informed and being your own best advocate in this complicated field of medicine. No worries I wasn't offended, I just wanted to express that to me this has been a lifelong challenge and studies have truly proven and even moreso lately that dairy and meat along with sugar feed and exacerbate cancerous cells. I hope that someday this becomes generally accepted knowledge.




epiphiny43 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/19/2013 12:14:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I realize some people are getting good results with diet, but that line of treatment is not really proved or studied systematically enough to ensure good results. And for many types of cancer, current medical treatments give much better survival rates. So all things considered, I wouldn't fault someone for taking what they saw as the most certain course of action. It is a fact that Steve Jobs did try to treat his cancer using alternative methods and waited too late to start medical treatment that could have saved his life. Today, with the information that we have, I think diet makes an excellent additional treatment option, but I personally don't feel everyone with either a high risk of cancer or cancer itself should limit themselves solely to alternative methods. And again, I say personally. The amount of risk one is willing to assume is ultimately a very personal choice and only that person can answer what feels most comfortable for them. If people feel comfortable enough choosing diet thats great, but not everyone will feel comfortable doing that. And some of the statistics on medical procedures (like mastectomy) are actually very good.

I would like to see more research on diet - I think we don't know enough about what diet can do. And I'm a big believer in holistic approaches. I have combatted many things, such as allergies, using diet and alternative methods. But cancer is another thing entirely. I come from a cultural background that is predominantly vegetarian. Indian Hindus still get and die from cancer. I support more funding for these treatment options so we can have more information about diet. I'm comfortable testing out dietary options for my allergies; not so comfortable, personally, on using myself as guinea pig when it comes to cancer, because as Jobs discovered, time is an important factor in battling cancer, once it strikes. But my vegetarian family members who led very healthy lives, but still died of cancer - I'm not sure that the preventative diet worked for them. We need more information. [sm=2cents.gif]


I don't want to be argumentative on this at all fucktoy, but you said your vegetarian family.....it is dairy that causes so much of this particular gene to thrive, eliminating dairy makes proven huge beneficial changes in this type of cancer and it's growth. So it's vegan diets with no dairy that I am talking about. Dairy causes incredible harm to the human body. Truly we are just not meant to consume it. Ever.

Sorry, like all 'true believers', what might have some validity is being turned into totally unsupported or at least wildly exaggerated orthodoxy. Add, "Some Dairy" and Some humans" to your polemic and you have a supportable position. Human genetics, disease and nutrition are far too complicated for any simple answer to hold. Other than "no airway and no pulse, you pretty much die." A significant proportion of the adult population doesn't have the genes to digest milk protein. The rest are in far less obvious situations.
My sister has had diffuse and undiagnosed arrays of quite unpleasant and often debilitating symptoms for maybe a generation. She has made one real change and last I heard, she is doing much better on all those fronts. The difference was including regular intake of raw milk to her diet. And totally eliminating pasteurized milk to the extent she can.
Which brings it's own set of risks. Our father related to me that during the Depression at least one classmate died every year from Undulant Fever (Brucellosis), a serious infection with low but consistent fatality rate, which is transmitted from infected cows by way of unpasteurized milk. Last week in the news there was a cluster of Undulant Fever cases in the Eastern US. Brucellosis is but one of a number of infections carried from infected cows and/or even well sterilized dairy equipment to raw milk consumers. I'm crossing my fingers for her.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/19/2013 7:37:27 AM)

Cancer is NOT a chronic illness. You cavalierly stating if she followed this type of diet, she wouldn't have needed surgery or gotten cancer is presumptious and silly. A special diet to SUPPORT a chronic illness or even cancer is fine, but it has neither been proven a cure nor an absolute preventative measure.




crazyml -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/19/2013 9:33:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


I meant no disrespect to her or her choices at all and do not envy her position and am absolutely positive she thought long and hard on this....my point was I think a lot of western practitioners disregard the proven fact that a diet heavy in meat and dairy definitely increased the risk of cancers. And the archaic outdated thinking of many physicians in this country still tout the benefits of the SAD which has been proven to be so detrimental for so many diseases.




I mean no disrespect to your point of view but...

It certainly did seem as if you were being disrespectful of her choices. For example you said " I would have looked into other options first." - now come on! Seriously... do you really imagine that she didn't look into other options?

And.. You know, I'm really, really, open to the idea that diet has a huge impact on health. But in your enthusiasm you're exaggerating the effects and grossly overstating the science to the extent that it looks a bit silly.






That is your opinion ml, I don't think saying something as innocuous as the fact that I would have looked into other options first is disrespectful. I would have.


I'm sure this is simply a misunderstanding on my part. But... it really looks to me as if you don't believe that she looked at other options before having her breasts removed.

Do you really think that?

quote:




Read my reply below to kalikshama, I am no stranger to having a chronic serious illness....and this worked for me. I speak from my own personal experience


You're not qualified to state what worked for you. You can tell us how you changed your diet and that your health subsequently improved but you've no business asserting a causal link between them.

quote:



and I won't bore you all with the thousands of medical articles that back my point up.


Good, because it would be boring to have to bore you with the hundreds of thousands that refute some of the babble nonsense claims that are made by dieticians.

quote:




Again, having suffered from systemic lupus and RA since I was a teenager, nothing I have researched or put into practice for my health is silly. Silly is not being informed and being your own best advocate in this complicated field of medicine.


Silly is not being balanced in your research and in assuming that a few hours of googling is going to make you qualified to make that kind of call.

quote:




No worries I wasn't offended, I just wanted to express that to me this has been a lifelong challenge and studies have truly proven and even moreso lately that dairy and meat along with sugar feed and exacerbate cancerous cells.

This is silly.

There have been some studies that demonstrate links. There have been others that don't. The challenge is to balance the evidence determine which option (among all the possible options and looking at all of the associated risks).

quote:


I hope that someday this becomes generally accepted knowledge.


Really? This seems rather as if you've made your mind up and that you hope people will come to believe it.

Wouldn't it be better to say "I hope that someday we understand the relationship between diet and health more clearly so we can make better judgements?"

Sheesh..




epiphiny43 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/19/2013 11:59:49 AM)

Far more likely than all our current ills being diet, the planet wide experiment being conducted where any chemical that someone finds a profit using or selling is allowed into the environment and general commerce as long as no one drops dead immediately from exposure is a lot more likely the major cause of the emergent chronic and debilitating diseases.
No mention of the many insufficient diet diseases that are now rare or absent and the huge toll of infectious diseases that Don't afflict most peoples and nations on the planet? A generous portion of these were food borne. Life expectancy only reached 45 in the US barely 100 years ago, it's over 70 for several generations now? Just living longer brings whole new sets of health issues. Who lived long enough for severe arthritis in Colonial America? Most of our cancers are late middle age or aged onset. People died of tuberculosis and fevers before getting that old.
There are no questions that modern diets and foods are causing problems. Plant selection for commercial purposes with no regard for food content, industrialized monoculture and the almost total non-organic fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides that make it possible and most of all the fat content of so much processed food and the consumer choices that favor that are serious problems. Given that 'Cancer' is actually a wide variety of diseases with individual etiologies, progressions, consequences and locations only unified by the abstract notion the language finds useful of some sort of uncontrolled cellular growth, means ANY claimed cause to all of them is not only ignorance made loud but real malevolence in that it distracts from the necessary research to find the individual and often complicated and manifold causes and cures of each individual disease.




Aynne88 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/19/2013 9:57:34 PM)


Not interested in getting into some long debate but please be assured that my experience is vastly more than a few hours of googling. I didn't make the decision to be vegan based on that either, I have systemic lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and raynauds' syndrome and was constantly in doctors offices as well as hospitals. I hope you didn't mean to be so condescending and until you have spent over 35 years with a chronic illness you really can't understand how hard it is to spend years not hours trying to figure out how to live a comfortable life and how to choose what is best for you. I do get a bit irritated explaining this to people that have a preconceived notion on veganism when they don't understand how it so positively changed my health not to mention the moral and ethical benefits of it.




Aynne88 -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/19/2013 10:00:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Cancer is NOT a chronic illness. You cavalierly stating if she followed this type of diet, she wouldn't have needed surgery or gotten cancer is presumptious and silly. A special diet to SUPPORT a chronic illness or even cancer is fine, but it has neither been proven a cure nor an absolute preventative measure.


LL. you have always had some weird bone to pick with me since I had the discussion with you regarding pitbulls. I have a chronic illness several in fact so I don't need any education on that. Calling me silly is offensive and well..I expect no less from you.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/20/2013 1:18:34 AM)

I have no doubt that changing your diet has helped you, and believe it or not, I'm happy that you found a solution. For you. However, promoting it as a way to prevent cancer and outright stating that had someone followed this diet they WOULD NOT get cancer, and DID NOT need to have their breasts removed is complete ignorance.

I have very little problem with veganism. It isn't for me, but to each their own. Whether it was you or someone else promoting the idea that a vegan diet WILL (not "may") prevent cancer is pure ignorance. It is really no different than the over zealous Christians who believe prayer will make it go away. In other words, I found what you said not only offensive, but dangerous advice that you shouldn't be giving.

Now if you would like to advise people who have lupus, RA and raynaud's syndrome or some other chronic health problem about the positive effects veganism has had on your life, have at it.

Comparing a chronic illness to a deadly one is ignorant, plain and simple. If that offends you, perhaps you should get a medical degree so you can learn the difference.




thishereboi -> RE: Angelina Jolie had a "preventative double mastectomy" NY Times (5/20/2013 10:26:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hollyucinogen

I agree with you in a way - I honestly believe that people are not supposed to be drinking milk, at least not in large quantities (think about it, how many other mammals do you know that drink milk past infancy?), but I don't necessarily think that eliminating milk from your diet is going to cure your cancer. I'm a vegetarian who eats only eggs - no dairy products at all except for yogurt, which I consume probably once every two months or so - and I still have all sorts of health problems. Most of the females in my family are more or less vegetarian, and there's still a strong history of breast cancer and uterine cancer. Oftentimes genetics and environment enmesh to create the perfect environment for cancer to grow, but not for everybody, and it's not always both. That being said:

I probably would have made the same choice as her given the same information. And even if you all think she's stupid, the fact is that she and her doctor know things that you don't about her, her family history, and medicine, period. And even if you knew everything she knew about it and STILL thought she was stupid for doing it, I don't really care, because it's her choice, and it obviously wasn't an easy one to make.



While I pretty much agree with everything you say, I have to wonder about the logic in the bolded part. While it is true that other mammals (animals) don't drink milk past infancy, they also don't clean or cook their meals. Do you really want to pattern your eating habits after them?




Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.0625