Is rape about power? (Full Version)

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egern -> Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 8:59:45 AM)


Very often I have hear the expression: all rape is about power.

I believe that the phrase was coined by Susan Brownmiller i 1975 in her book 'Against Our Will' as a protest against the ideas prevailing at that time: that women could not really be raped, that she was asking for it by being seductive, or that it was all hysteria and you could not believe a word of it. All ideas direct from dear old Freud, as I understand it, heavily supported by the ideas of the society of his time.

At that time (1975) I believe it was necessary to do something about that attitude. However, this concept, that all rape is about power, period, has never been proven or, to my knowledge, even researched. It just keep getting repeated as if it were.

I think the time has come to put a question mark on this slogan and ask: is all rape about power, or are there perhaps many reasons why men rape? And what are they?

Is it power?

Is it a bad attitude about women? (or other men)

Is it purely about sex?

Is it punishment?

Is it bad upbringing? Culture? Religion?

Is it because men cannot control themselves?

Is it because men have a right to sex and therefore to take it where they can?

Is it, as some EPs would have it, all nature and natural?

Do women have a role in it, or is that going back to the bad old days when it was all their fault, even if you were a child?

I'd like to know why it happens.




DomKen -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 9:09:04 AM)

Every possible motive you list boils down to power.




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 9:49:15 AM)

I'm not sure I understand your questions. If power is not part of the equation for most of the questions, what, in your mind, is? I'm hard pressed to find an alternative answer that addresses all the questions you raise. Power seems to cover it....




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 9:56:46 AM)

FR

Is there a political movement or religion based on any of this? Was wondering why it was in this section.




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 10:26:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Every possible motive you list boils down to power.


I do not see that. Could you elaborate?




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 10:29:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I'm not sure I understand your questions. If power is not part of the equation for most of the questions, what, in your mind, is? I'm hard pressed to find an alternative answer that addresses all the questions you raise. Power seems to cover it....


Upbringing is not about power? Sexual urge? lack of control? considered rights?

Maybe intelligence?

I am thinking that rethinking the whole thing might help in combating the problem.




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 11:33:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I'm not sure I understand your questions. If power is not part of the equation for most of the questions, what, in your mind, is? I'm hard pressed to find an alternative answer that addresses all the questions you raise. Power seems to cover it....


Upbringing is not about power? Sexual urge? lack of control? considered rights?

Maybe intelligence?

I am thinking that rethinking the whole thing might help in combating the problem.


I still think power is the correct construct, and that combating it requires thinking about power imbalance, and the proper use of power. In other words education combined with the right societal factors should reduce power imbalance.

I reject the notion that rape is about sexual urge. That would imply that those with strong sexual urges are more likely to rape, but there are lots of studies out there to show that is not the case. Intelligence has also been debunked as a causal factor (i.e., less intelligent men are not more likely to rape or vice versa).

I applaud your notion of wanting to rethink the whole thing - but I would say that what needs to be rethought is exactly how power imbalance can be controlled or neutralized in other ways. But removing power as the construct of study seems to me to leave us with the wrong things to be thinking about. Teaching people that rape is about sexual urge, lack of control and intelligence is not going to make one bit of difference to rape statistics because it isn't true.





Moonhead -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 11:57:22 AM)

FR:
Are the poor oppressed reactionaries now claiming that rape is an old fashioned right that's been removed from them by the terrible liberal conspiracy?




TricklessMagic -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 12:55:00 PM)

Huh? I don't think you'll find any conservative saying that rape is a right, most conservatives agree rapists should be tossed into gen pop in prisons to have a little penal justice carried out (my ten or more gang rapists on one rapist).


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

FR:
Are the poor oppressed reactionaries now claiming that rape is an old fashioned right that's been removed from them by the terrible liberal conspiracy?





Owner59 -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 1:05:09 PM)

Sadly, Martin's story is not uncommon among American women. Studies indicate that between 15 and 25 percent of all married women have been victims of spousal rape and some scholars suggest that this type of rape is the most common form in our society.

"Unfortunately, for survivors like Regan Martin, modern U.S. law still retains vestiges of a misogynistic past.

Creation of "Marital Rape Exemption"

The so-called "marital rape exemption" has been embedded in the sexual assault laws of our country since its founding. In its most drastic form, the exemption means that a husband, by definition, cannot legally rape his wife. The theory goes that by accepting the marital contract, a woman has tacitly consented to sexual intercourse any time her husband demands it.

The concept dates back to 18th century common law, and was articulated by English jurist Matthew Hale as follows: "The husband cannot be guilty of rape . . . for by their mutual matrimonial consent and contract, the wife [has] given up herself in this kind unto her husband, which she cannot retract."


Currently all 50 states criminalize spousal rape, but remnants of the marital rape exemption are still present in many states' laws. Most states, like California, for example, define spousal rape as a separate offense than stranger rape.

Evidently, Regan Martin's husband believed that spousal rape should not be considered a crime at all. He exhibited a commonly held assumption among perpetrators of the crime: that husbands have property rights in their wives' bodies.

"He thought he had every right to do what he was doing because he was her husband," Cherry Simpson, Regan Martin's mother, told Women's eNews.

However, since Illinois law has abandoned the spousal rape exemption in cases of forcible or violent rape, Samolis was initially charged with unlawful restraint, sexual criminal assault (rape) and aggravated domestic violence.
But the case never made it to trial.

Plea Bargaining Away Charges

Plea bargains can be useful because they allow governmental prosecutors to make practical compromises in cases they believe might not prevail in court. They are also used in cases in which gathering evidence would be too costly and time consuming, saving taxpayer dollars and preserving judicial resources.

But Regan and her family believe that in cases of alleged rape, plea bargains should never be allowed.

"Rape is rape and to plea bargain it away is unacceptable. This is just an epidemic for judicial expediency," said Simpson.



http://womensenews.org/story/rape/090701/spousal-rape-laws-continue-evolve




DomKen -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 1:48:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

FR:
Are the poor oppressed reactionaries now claiming that rape is an old fashioned right that's been removed from them by the terrible liberal conspiracy?

Not entirely sure but this looks a lot like a gambit by the Men's Rights sort.




Aswad -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 1:54:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Every possible motive you list boils down to power.


Everything possible boils down to power, so why should sex be any different?

The central question is whether it's a particularly useful analysis.

Around here, teaching people about consent helps.

Stranger rape is, after all, a rare thing.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




FelineRanger -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 2:38:54 PM)

Unfortunately, rape really is about power. Very often, it's a warped attempt to regain power that the rapist feels he has lost in another part of his life.




vincentML -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 3:19:49 PM)

~FR~
"Sexual gratification [edit]

Though anger and power are believed, by some academics, to be the primary motivation for most rapes,[9] in 1994, Richard Felson coauthored the controversial book "Aggression and Coercive Actions: A Social-Interactionist Perspective" with James Tedeschi, a book which argues that sexual fulfillment is the motive of rapists, rather than the aggressive desire to dominate the victim.[10] Felson believes that rape is an aggressive form of sexual coercion and the goal of rape is sexual satisfaction rather than power. Most rapists do not have a preference for rape over consensual sex.[11][12][13][14][15][16] In one study, male rapists evaluated with penile plethysmography demonstrated more arousal to forced sex and less discrimination between forced and consensual sex than non-rapist control subjects, though both groups responded more strongly to consensual sex scenarios.[17]"

SNIP SNIP

"Research on convicted rapists [edit]

The research on convicted rapists has found several important motivational factors in the sexual aggression of males. Those motivational factors repeatedly implicated are having anger at women and having the need to control or dominate them.[31]

Factors increasing men's risk of committing rape include alcohol and other drug consumption, being more likely to consider victims responsible for their rape, being less knowledgeable about the impact of rape on victims, being impulsive and having antisocial tendencies, having an exaggerated sense of masculinity, having a low opinion on women, being a member of a criminal gang, having sexually aggressive friends, having been abused as a child and having been raised in a strongly patriarchal family.[citation needed]

A study by Marshall et al. (2001) found that male rapists had less empathy toward women who had been sexually assaulted by an unknown assailant and more hostility toward women than nonsex offenders and nonoffender males/females.[32]

Freund et al. (1983) stated that most rapists do not have a preference for rape over consensual sex,[33] and Marshall et al. (1991) stated that there are no significant differences between the arousal patterns of male rapists and other males.[34]"

There is much more here A multifaceted topic. Good thread by egern.





thompsonx -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 3:44:43 PM)

fr:
What are the rape stats in places where prostitution is legal.
Look at the rape stats for nevada which has legal prostution in all but about three counties.
I have gone back through the records for more than 20 years and so far I have only found rape to occure in the counties
that do not have legal prostitution.
So my belief is that rape is all about sex,if it was all about power then why fuck them just beat the shit out of them?




VideoAdminAlpha -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 4:05:14 PM)

Fr~

This thread can stay here, because of the question of power,and although not a political discussion at present, power, position and politics tend to be intertwined at some point.




JeffBC -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 4:05:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: egern
However, this concept, that all rape is about power, period, has never been proven or, to my knowledge, even researched. It just keep getting repeated as if it were.

Feminism is like that. For me, the idea is ludicrous. Not to put too fine a point on it but last I checked "rape" was about "me fucking some woman who does not want to be fucked". It would appear at a casual glance that "fucking" has to be somewhere in the mix.

For me it's pretty simple...

A) Humans are a highly sexual species
B) Some humans really don't see other humans as meaningful or as having any rights.
C) Society is terribly permissive about this particular form of transgression.

It seems to me that with those three simple ingredients you get what we see in our society. It's only the 3rd point that can be changed and so is interesting at all to me.




tj444 -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 4:31:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: egern
Very often I have hear the expression: all rape is about power.

yeah,.. I used to hear that too.. but it never really made much sense to me.. I am female (for those that dont know) and while I believe in womens rights, I dont buy this particular reasoning..

I have had my hormones going sooooo crazy at times that dam it!, yes, I could have raped someone!... ok,.. to be honest, I did jump on my (now) ex when he was asleep in the middle of the night a few times which technically would fit the definition.. [&o] good thing he just threw me off and went back to sleep (rolling over so I couldnt try again) instead of calling the cops.. but if I (a female with only a small amount of testosterone in my veins) could be so horny that I could do it, then a guy that has ten times those hormones must need to have considerably more willpower to keep himself from doing that.. so imo, I think that for most men it really is about sex and needing it that badly.. Which is why any guy I have told that to thought my ex was nutz for throwing me off!




Owner59 -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 4:43:54 PM)

Can we say that rape is just one ugly and awful tool used against women (and men) to destroy them spiritually and mentally and often physically?



When the serbs were rounding up every female Muslim to systematically rape each and every one before releasing them.....it wasn`t about sex or power but for the specific purpose of ruining them as Muslims.




tj444 -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/17/2013 5:22:12 PM)

I dont know if the OP was meaning to include rape used during war or conflicts or sex slavery/human traffiking. I know that is not the scenario I was thinking about..

But the reasons for comfort women (who were kidnapped & forced into prostitution which is rape) was not about destroying the women (although it would have had that effect) but about the soldiers.. oddly enough, it was to keep them from raping the locals as well as other reasons..

"The Japanese Army established the comfort stations to prevent venereal diseases and rape by Japanese soldiers, to provide comfort to soldiers and head off espionage."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women




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