RE: Is rape about power? (Full Version)

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FunCouple5280 -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/21/2013 2:52:12 PM)

FR~

After reading 80+% of the posts, it seems there is little consensus on the motives and reasons for rape. However, Baroana may have said best comparing them to snowflakes. So, I feel the need to interject my opinion. [:D]

Sorry, this is long, but I started typing and just couldn't stop...

Part 1: Rape comparisons
I don't think you can compare rape between two nations accurately. It is absurd to believe various nations in the Middle East have low rape rates, as it is basically impossible to convict male rapists and all kinds of marital sexual assault are basically legal. The US may seem to have a lower rape rate, than say Norway, but the reporting and conviction rate in the US is criminally low. Also, some nations have extremely strict definitions of rape including virtually any unwanted sexual advances of a physical nature. There is a lack of legal consistency and enforcement that really skews our understanding of the problem form location to location.


Part 2: Types of rapists as I see them:

1: Sexual predators: I think this would be the classic 'power' rapist. As others hear have pointed out some rapists are attractive and able to acquire consensual sexual partners, yet rape anyway. These are likely individuals who really get off on the power. Whether it is to compensate for something or a sexual power fetish they may have, they feel empowered or get off on the power. They are probably the type to rape many different victims over their career.

2: The perverted: I see this as two part group. The first being the sexually abused. These people had their morality warped by previous abuse and are likely abusers themselves, either to regain the power they feel they have lost or because they may actually feel that sex follows this type of relationship pattern. The second being those that may rape underage family members. This may not be about power as it is a sick fetish or obsession. An individual who is sexually attracted to a six year old can never have consensual sex and therefore rapes to fulfill that desire. I see that as more of a mental disease than a need for power. This is not to say that there aren't those that prey on the young for power, just that there are those who may need therapy.

3: The casual rapist: Another 'power' rapist. Someone who does have somewhat regular consensual sex. Yet, they may still commit non-violent rape. Someone who doesn't take rejection well, and may want to regain that power by committing to the 'score.' I think back to when I bounced at a bar. We must have prevented at least 5 of these rapes every Saturday night. The classic example was a guy got sorta rejected by a girl, felt butt-hurt, but didn't get too pushy or violent. He would turn up the charm, buy her some drinks to 'apologize,' and proceed to fill her with booze till she was compliant to his wants. Often we would get the girl in a cab or off with her friends and cut the guy off before something 'bad' happened.

4: Sexually repressed: I know many on here have roundly dismissed this, but this has to have some merit. First, marital rape. While the exemptions in the law are despicable, there was a time when many marriages themselves were not consensual. You weren't supposed to be adulterous, yet you have a spouse uninterested in you sexually because of the arrangement you were forced into. Many cultures still marry of children etc. A clear example of why love should be free to be practiced without boundaries. Also the practice of a spouse, using sex to control their partner. While raping the spouse may attain power in the relationship, withholding it can similarly change the power balance. That sexual repression may drive an individual to a deranged act. Although inexcusable, very avoidable. Second, the socially outcast. If you are unattractive or extremely socially inept, the very lack of human interaction could drive you quite mad from depression etc, especially with a high sex drive. While this may be a clear example as ever of the usefulness of legal prostitution, some people just don't have any consensual options available to them. Couple that with depression and maybe some substance abuse and you have a powder keg. Third, religious. This is seen in many areas where sex is placed on the altar. Young people are not permitted sexual release at all, no premarital sex, illegal prostitution, masturbation is considered sinful and marriage itself is difficult without finance or elaborate courtship. The fact you can recruit young males so easily to kill themselves by promising polygamist relations in the afterlife, only illustrates why so many women get raped when there is any kind of demonstration or political unrest. Their impulse control is virtually gone at that point

5: Social rapist: I think of the football, basketball teams and frats for example. This would also be a power scenario, but in a different sense. It is not that the individual rapists are looking to assume power over the victim but as to not lose face in view of their peers. They are raping to 'fit' in and gain power and status within the group. To a more criminal extent, street gangs, as it is used for initiations and status within some groups.

6: Leg humpers: This is the prison scenario when it is homosexual with heterosexual individuals. While a small amount of this maybe sexual release, it is primarily a power game where one uses rape to control another. I use the term 'leg humper' because it relates to the way dogs using 'humping' as a gesture of dominance over one another.

7: Narcissist: This is not too far from the casual rapist but more about a lack of empathy versus power. This is a selfish person that believes they deserve sexual release and that someone should give it to them. They have no feeling or understanding of the other persons feelings, only that since it takes two to tango, someone owes them a tango. I would suspect they don't even believe what they did was rape, but merely a well 'earned' sex from hard sales tactics. I suspect they would probably often exhibit other chronic behaviors of feeling they are 'owed' other things as well.


Part 3: Religion
As previously mentioned religion can create a toxic sexual environment. In this thread there has been finger pointing at religious types dismissing the severity of rape. I don't think that it is that they feel rape is acceptable, as many would condemn stranger rape, it is they may see it as necessary. When you create a culture that denies sexuality in all forms, yet it is a natural urge as well as a necessity for procreation, you create a hormonal powder keg wrapped in the paradox of necessary evil (It is a sin with one exception, creation). While that is merely a restatement of a point I brought up before, there is a more sinister element that floats within many religious cultural constructs. There is this definition of the head of the house that pervades through many beliefs. While few advocate the rape of the spouse they preach the inequality of the spousal relationship. If it is not a true partnership, not only does an exercise in power become possible but also a sense of entitlement within that relationship. We in the BDSM community preach consensual submission and Dominance. This is often not the case within religious communities. Defined roles, rules and responsibilities become gospel and as such that warped morality corrupts people who may otherwise be benign.


Part 4: Rape Mitigation:
1: As Aswad has put forth, education. I really liked the idea teaching boys empathy and trying to put them in the shoes of a woman. Such would be good for nearly any crime. Knowing, feeling and understanding the impact on the victim is huge deterrent. Also, teaching girls confidence, and direct communication skills is huge. They should feel control over their bodies, and they shouldn't assume that a man will pick up on subtle hints and denials.

2: Sexual openness would help all around. As a society if we aired our dirty sexual laundry as well as engaged without too many strings attached, we would not only reduce frustration but understand the pathologies associated with it way better. Plus, I think, it would be easier to identify, prevent, and treat negative sexual behavior before it becomes criminal.

3: I see a value in legal prostitution. When you consider how sexual repression fits into some cases of rape, the availability of a sexual partner who does not discriminate, is of huge benefit to society. As a plus, the would be assailant is no longer a taker but someone engaging in a fair trade. The reason for legalization is the same for most laws of this nature, as long as it is illegal, the stigma opens up the user to the rest of the criminal activity that becomes associated with it.


Part 5: Reflection
I think we create some of the conditions that build to these events. Sometimes it is a pathology of the individual. But worst, I don't think we talk about it enough. I have to think that nearly everyone who reads this has likely acted sexually inappropriately towards someone at one time or another. Not rape, just said something offensive, crossed signals and touched someone who didn't want to be touched, or just pressured a partner a little too much. While it may have been innocent like reading the wrong signals, it may also have been due to frustration. We like to boil it down to strictly criminal behavior or an assertion of power because it distinguishes us from some of our improprieties. While that may be the case in many if not all violent and/or forcible rapes, there are some many instances of things going a little too far for everyone. We are sexual beings subject to highly subjective rules and relationships, we need to understand ourselves and others better. We need to communicate better and be more direct. We need to define our actions better so we can eliminate the doubt and punish those who cross that line more swiftly and with better results.




Aswad -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/21/2013 3:18:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Understanding rape as an act of power leads us to design anti-rape strategies that emphasise issues of consent, respect for boundaries and autonomy, acceptance of a woman's right to control her own body - all the things that you have described as elements of successful anti-rape educational strategies in your part of the world.


First, how does it lead to that? There's a leap in there that I'm not getting at all, unless the term means something totally different in this context from what it means in every other context I've ever dealt with, in which case it would be nice to know what.

Second, the strategies I mentioned were part of sex education here, as an integral part of understanding sex, and power was only introduced as an idea by the people that came in later to erase the parts of the programme that conferred the portable benefit to the female audience (portable in the sense of "the benefit follows them, independently of whether or not they're around males that have been in the programme).

Third, I'm arriving at the same measures from my line of reasoning as you are from yours, which suggests one of us has thrown in a superfluous entity. I'm unable to reproduce the conclusions you say follow from your premises, meaning I'll need to get some idea of how you got from A to Z in order to be able to work with it at all.

quote:

Another way it is a useful analysis is it helps us to separate issues of sex and rape.


As I told FTP, I prefer a more holistic approach to sex, teaching what it is and what it isn't, essentially.

quote:

This has led to the rejection of the "she was asking for it by her dress/behaviour/history" type defences advanced by rapists in the past, and allowed us to recognise that rape can and does occur within families, marriages and relationships.


But these were already self-evident before throwing power into the mix, and become more obscure and doubtful with power in the mix?

quote:

The sexual integrity of the victim is no longer seen either as a causal or mitigating factor, an issue of tremendous importance not only in the legal process prosecuting and punishing rapists, but also in the victim's recovery from her/his violation.


Excellent. I'm still not seeing how power as a model contributed, though.

quote:

A significant advance was made when people began to understand pedophile acts not as an expression of an aberrant sexuality but as child rape. This advance was enabled by the focus on the violence, violation of trust and power dynamics of the pedophile act, not the sexual connotations.


As far as I can tell, this point is still poorly understood by most. Kids are a minimum-effort, minimum-risk target for someone looking for that thing you call power, which seems to be vaguely similar to "busting a nut in an egoistical manner".

quote:

All up viewing rape as an act of violence and power rather than a sexual act puts rape in a completely different conceptual, analytical and actual category/epistemological space, which is precisely where it should be.


The space it seems to occupy in my mind is limbo, as I'm unable to connect it with reality or get a handle on how this thought construct works, and apparently it's difficult to explain, as well. Are you talking about these things from some legislative angle, perhaps, or in some context where the word power means something entirely different from what its intuitive and colloquial meanings are?

IWYW,
— Aswad.




tweakabelle -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/21/2013 9:17:12 PM)

quote:

where the word power means something entirely different from what its intuitive and colloquial meanings are?


It is common English usage to state that "a rape victim was overpowered by her assailant". There's nothing hidden or subtle or difficult to understand here. The forceful imposition of one person's will over another's body and wishes, the exercise of greater force or power over the victim to achieve that imposition is the core of rape

So, I really don't see what is so difficult to grasp here. The difference between a crime of violence and power with sex involved - rape - and a sex crime - eg distribution/possession of pedophile materials - involved isn't that hard to comprehend. The difference between rape and sex (and therefore why it is correct to view them as different matters) isn't that hard to understand either.

What does diverge from common understanding is your concept of violence, which you have expounded upon elsewhere on these boards, and which seems to be in use by you here.




UllrsIshtar -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/21/2013 9:21:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

For many species of animal it is the female that looks after the infant animals until that animal is able to manage more on its own. For many animal species adulthood is reached in a much shorter time frame than 18 year.


Chimpanzees are completely dependent of their mother for the first 3 years of their lives. To the point that they're not moving away from their mother at all until that time. They are carried exclusively for 3-4 months. They reach sexual maturity around 9 years of age, and reach adulthood till age 14 for females, and 16 for males. Gestation of 8-9 months.

Bonobos mature at age 13. Carried for the first 5 months. Completely dependent (nursed) on the mother until 5-6 years of age. Gestation of 7.5 months.

Orangoutangs reach maturity at 15 and are completely dependent on the mother until age 2. Carried for the first 4-5 months. Gestation of 9 months.

Gorillas mature at age 12. Are dependent exclusively on the mother until they're 18 months. Spend half their time with the mother until age 3. Carried exclusively for 5 months. Gestation of 8.5 months.

Much longer?

Especially when you don't use the completely arbitrary number of 18 to denote adulthood, but go off sexual maturity, it seems like our closest biological relatives have very similar timeframes of maturity, minus a year or two, to us. They tend to nurse far longer than humans do (by years) and infants don't start showing the first signs of actual independence until ages 5-7, just like our own.

You realize that going of sexual maturity (the standard most commonly used to define adulthood in primates), humans are adults at around age 12, right? In fact, historically it has been the case for the longest periods of human history that adulthood was set at around 13.

Are you going of facts when you claim that other primates mature much faster, or do you just feel that way, because we use an arbitrary number to define human adulthood, instead of going of sexual maturity or capability to survive without the parents, like we do with other mammals?




Aswad -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/22/2013 5:20:27 AM)

FTP and tweakabelle,

I get what you're saying now.

Thanks for your patience in explaining it.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




tweakabelle -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/22/2013 10:34:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

FTP and tweakabelle,

I get what you're saying now.

Thanks for your patience in explaining it.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


It is such a delight to see someone capable of approaching things with an open mind, and being prepared to change her/his views if and when a better understanding is available. Wouldn't it be lovely if that happened a bit more frequently!

So thank you Aswad for your openmindedness and your gracious note above. I'm sure ftp appreciates your change of heart as much as I do.




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 8:35:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

I still say rape is about power. Nothing I've read on this thread says to me otherwise. Whether it is date rape, rape within the context of a preexisting relationship, stranger rape, etc. it is about some imposing themselves on another person.

Those who refer to things like alcohol and diminished capacity are simply giving further credence to the power argument. A victim who is drunk is an even easier target because the power imbalance is even larger.

The rape statistics exist because some men (i.e., less than a majority of men) seem to need to exert their power in this way. The majority of men do not rape and would not rape even if they didn't have access to regular sex, and even if they were in a situation of extreme power imbalance.

Again, absolutely nothing on this thread tells me that rape is about anything other than power.


Seems to me you keep mixing the actual act of rape - which of course implies power, physical overpowering or a weapon - and the motive for rape, which is what I am talking about.




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 8:41:51 AM)

quote:

No, I didn't say always. In fact, I would've preferred to limit the discussion to a single phenomenon at a time, because it's quite counterproductive to lump it all under one heading and then trying to generalize without having things in naturally delineated categories in which one can find more similarities.


I started it that way, because the slogan I was interested in discussion says 'all rape is about power'. But you are right, as I have learned, that rape is so many different things, and that alone is a big factor to consider.

quote:


For instance, where I live, date rape and marital rape are the primary forms of rape, to the point that I occasionally have to point out the absurdity that some women will rush home from town (where the chance of being raped is infinitesmally small, but where the media makes big headlines every time it happens) to the male company that makes them feel safe (where the chances are more than thirty times higher that they'll be rape, but where media rarely covers it unless it's particularly vicious).


If this is a general thing, that stranger rape is the rarest (and as far as I can see it is) then again I think that a very important factor in the discussion.

I suggest we focus on that then, or specify which kind of rape we are talking about.

I believe that the concept of rape culture covers all kinds, though.




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 8:43:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Rape is about bullying...... Nuff said.



But what about stranger rape then?


What part of forcing a person to have sex, isnt bullying ?




So you are saying that the motive for all kinds of rape is to harass the victim?




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 8:52:55 AM)

quote:

The pro-rapists posting here are simply playing a version of 'you can't rape the unwilling' blame the victimism, it's probably time to quit feeding them.


NOBODY here in this thread has said any such thing, and neither have I.





egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 8:58:31 AM)

quote:

Non consent is about power as well, if you think about it. If someone rapes me, it means they had sex without my consent, which means I either said no and they still did it, or I wasn't even given the chance to say no. In either case, the power that should have been vested in me to say yes or no was taken away from me, which means the other person had a power imbalance they exploited, whether it was physical force or by having me in a position where I couldn't say yes or no, since I was out of it. Consent implies equal power, non consent implies unequal power.


No one will dispute that rape implies physical power, or power btw of weapons. But the discussion was meant to be about motive, reasons, to rape, and what can be done about it.

Rape culture being an example, where in India they have at least started to challenge that very nasty version of rape culture they have there. 'Nasty' in the sense of wide spread, extremely violent and seemingly deep into the roots of the various cultures of India, not meant to diminish other kinds of rape.




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 9:01:24 AM)

quote:


Why would you try to see all rapes as anything? There are many reasons why a man would rape a women and to try to come up with one reason to cover them all seems a bit silly.


Nevertheless, that is what the slogan 'all rape is bout power and not sex' is trying to do, and the reason I think it is not helpful.




angelikaJ -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 9:02:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

I still say rape is about power. Nothing I've read on this thread says to me otherwise. Whether it is date rape, rape within the context of a preexisting relationship, stranger rape, etc. it is about some imposing themselves on another person.

Those who refer to things like alcohol and diminished capacity are simply giving further credence to the power argument. A victim who is drunk is an even easier target because the power imbalance is even larger.

The rape statistics exist because some men (i.e., less than a majority of men) seem to need to exert their power in this way. The majority of men do not rape and would not rape even if they didn't have access to regular sex, and even if they were in a situation of extreme power imbalance.

Again, absolutely nothing on this thread tells me that rape is about anything other than power.


Seems to me you keep mixing the actual act of rape - which of course implies power, physical overpowering or a weapon - and the motive for rape, which is what I am talking about.



I view taking something just because one can to be an act of power.





Aswad -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 9:46:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So thank you Aswad for your openmindedness and your gracious note above. I'm sure ftp appreciates your change of heart as much as I do.


I didn't say I had a change of heart. I said I get what you're saying now. For me, it's not a productive way to analyse things, so I bowed out of further discussion on the topic, noting that it's clear where we disconnect, how and why, and that I should be able to follow your thinking on this topic in the future.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 9:51:23 AM)

quote:

I do, actually think that when we frame rape as being about power it helps us think about constructive ways to prevent (or at least reduce) the instances of this act.


Ok

quote:


Thinking of power opens up all sorts of dialogue about gender equity, education, risks, responsibilities, etc. that other constructs do not.


That I cannot see..

quote:


For example, because I firmly believe that rape is about power and NOT about sex, I am not going to support laws that force modesty on a woman's body. Whether it is orthodox Jews in Brooklyn or the Islamic sharia laws of various countries, the notion that women are solely responsible for not enticing men is a perverse turning on its head of where the responsibilities should be.


Even if rape is about sex and not power (?) whatever that really means?? I see no reason whatsoever to support any laws about how women should dress. What has that got to do with it? That is the idea that men cannot control themselves and we know that is pure nonsense.

Even if it is about sex (and I think that is one of many tings it may be about) the guilt is on the part of the perpetrator, not the victim, much as it you were murdered. Isn't murder likewise about power, and how does that help in preventing murder specifically?

quote:

,
Because I don't think rape is about sex, it also affects the way I view issues like birth control and abortion.


I do not get that -? I think that birth control and abortion should be possible no matter what rape is about. What is the difference?

quote:


It also informs me about how to handle rape victims.


How?

quote:


It also informs me about how to view relationships between men and women in general.


How can rape say anything about men and women in general?? Rape is abnormal.

quote:


It suggests that not all men will rape (which is true).


Neither of the ideas suggests that, as I see it. We (almost) all of us have sex, does not suggest that we might all be rapists or child abusers.

quote:


It suggests that there are ways to identify those who are at greater risk of committing rape.


How?

quote:


It even allows one to identify who might be at greater risk of being a victim.


How?? I am very interested in all this!

quote:


The fact that rape is about power informs me as a woman much more about how to protect myself and handle myself in a multitude of situations to minimize my own risks while still being able to enjoy my life.


Sounds to me like you are talking stranger rape? But that is the least common of them, according to some 9%.

" common myths about rape

Here are some of the most common myths that surround rape and sexual assault:

Myth Do not go out alone at any time. Women are most likely to be raped outside, in dark alleyways late at night. This is the best way for a woman to protect herself.

Fact The suggestion of avoiding walking alone, especially at night is a common suggestion to avoiding sexual assault. However, only 9% of rapes are committed by 'strangers'. Women are raped in their homes and in their work places where they are less likely to be believed and even less likely to report. This myth can control movements and restricts freedom. This can feel like women are living under a 'curfew' and that it is a woman's responsibility to be either in or out at certain times. Around 90% of rapes are committed by known men."
http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/commonmyths2.php

quote:


As a woman, I can tell you for a fact, no other single construct is as helpful for understanding this crime.


It is exactly as a woman that I do not understand the power theory. What I mean is that I literally do not understand the theory itself. What is meant by 'power', other than physical power? Does it mean hate? I also would like to understand the crime, the action, but the power saying does not help me! Why do people do this? How can people do this? it is against nature.

Some rat studies suggest that overpopulation may be part of it - living unnaturally too many people in cities for example.

quote:


Most of the literature and studies that look at rape through the power lens are extremely informative in terms of what tools we have available as a society to try to handle this issue and the variety of issues raised by its occurrence.


Examples?

quote:


Again, no other construct comes close to the explanatory strength of "power". It's sort of like Einstein's Theory of Relativity - which does not deny that there could be another explanation, but is the most complete explanation we have, and continues to be proven to hold under a variety of circumstances.


I do not see this as one single other construct against the one of power, but more like a number of explanations concerning a number of different rapes. Date rape, marital rape, stranger rape, child rape, gang rape, war rape - all different things with different kinds of people.

quote:


When we reduce rape to a man needing to fulfill his sexual urges, it really doesn't tell me anything that I can use in my regular existence.


Misunderstanding. See above.

quote:


It also doesn't inform me in ways that are meaningful about what the social constructs should be around male-female relationships in order to reduce the risks of rape.


What should they be? Information, a no is a no, a clear 'yes' is required, general working on gender roles and religious assumptions?

quote:


If rape is about sex, then all men are potential rapists.


Why? Then everybody having sex is a potential rapist. That does not make any kind of sense to me.

quote:


I find that to be an untrue and unhelpful starting point. It is that type of extremist thinking that leads to burkha wearing as the only way to minimize threat. I just categorically reject that kind of thinking.


Again, I do not see it this way. Whether sex is to do with rape or not has nothing to do with how women dress! No one has a right to rape anyone, regardless of the circumstances, no excuses.

quote:


I'm happy to look at other constructs that have the same explanatory depth and breadth as "power", but "sex" is not it, and I haven't seen anything else on this thread that I find helpful.


That is my problem, I see no explanation at all in the word 'power'! Since you believe this to be one, could you elaborate it for me? I is always just said, never explained..






PeonForHer -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 11:23:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So thank you Aswad for your openmindedness and your gracious note above. I'm sure ftp appreciates your change of heart as much as I do.


I didn't say I had a change of heart. I said I get what you're saying now. For me, it's not a productive way to analyse things, so I bowed out of further discussion on the topic, noting that it's clear where we disconnect, how and why, and that I should be able to follow your thinking on this topic in the future.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



It might be a help to think of power in relation to privilege, and in their sociological definitions. Thus, as for the latter:

"There is basic agreement among authors (Lucal, 1996; McIntosh, 1992; Robinson, 1999) regarding the definition of privilege. Drawing on the work of these authors, it seems that five core components provide the defining boundaries of this concept. First, privilege is a special advantage; it is neither common nor universal. Second, it is granted, not earned or brought into being by one's individual effort or talent. Third, privilege is a right or entitlement that is related to a preferred status or rank. Fourth, privilege is exercised for the benefit of the recipient and to the exclusion or detriment of others. Finally, a privileged status is often outside of the awareness of the person possessing it (McIntosh, 1992; Robinson & Howard-Hamilton, 2000). " (Link. My bolds.)

What this boils down to is power that is taken for granted. I have a can of beans than I'm shortly going to open to eat with my cheeseburger. The can of beans is just there, for me to use as I want, to satisfy my desires. In the same way the most essential thing about a rape is that the rapist just uses the victim. His power is something he takes for granted: he doesn't even consider it as power, in many ways.

Correspondingly, all the most crucial solutions flow from recognising that one is using (abusing) one's power when one rapes. You wouldn't rape if you were taught the immorality of using your power against someone's will; you wouldn't rape if could empathise with the victim (i.e. see her as a person with feelings like one's own rather than 'it' - like a can of beans). And so on.

Or, at least, that's my take on it. It's only a start. Like many others, beyond that, I'm somewhat at sea as to why a few rape but most don't. I can't 'feel myself into' a rapist's head - any rapist's head. I can do that with a thief or even a murderer, but I can't do it with a rapist.




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 1:28:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

The claim was made that rape has nothing to do with power, not that 'power' explains it all. That isn't problem solving, that is carrying water.




Wrong. I have not claimed anything at all.

I am asking whether or not it is true that all rape has to do with nothing but power.




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 1:39:54 PM)

quote:

I'd like to know why it happens.


quote:


Because some men do not grow up with proper role models and have a character flaw. Men are taught to rape by role models either in their peer groups or by their father or they simply have no role model and they are left to be raised by cable TV.


You see rape behavior as taught? That is very interesting!




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 1:52:28 PM)

quote:

I view taking something just because one can to be an act of power.


So your explanation for why rape occurs is 'just because you can'?

Then we should see much, much more rape, because a lot of men (and women) can. I do not think that is a sufficient explanation.




egern -> RE: Is rape about power? (5/23/2013 1:57:59 PM)

quote:


Or, at least, that's my take on it. It's only a start. Like many others, beyond that, I'm somewhat at sea as to why a few rape but most don't. I can't 'feel myself into' a rapist's head - any rapist's head. I can do that with a thief or even a murderer, but I can't do it with a rapist.


Me neither.

But I begin to see answers, even so..culture, gender roles, religion, maybe taught behavior which would then feel natural. All things that can be worked with.

Your thoughts on privilege seems to me consistent with some some strict religious societies with pronounced gender roles.

As some has said, it is time to work with rapists and potential rapists, instead of keeping the focus on the victims.




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