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RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 5:17:02 AM

evesgrden

Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline

quote:

The other night I was chatting with somebody, who attempted a number of times to play upon my empathy and engage me into White Knight mode! Hahahah.. I actually called them on it!! Please don't attempt to play upon my empathy! I'll ice this stuff down in 2.5 seconds flat anymore. I'll point out their own dumb ass decisions.

When you're just "chatting" and then you call someone on their stuff, point out their "dumb ass decisions" and "ice this stuff down", you're out of line. You're not their dominant. If you were chatting with someone in line at the grocery store, and they start telling you about their woes, would you seriously tell them not to play upon your empathy and that they're the ones who made the dumbass decisions after all. Would you say that to a colleague at a cocktail party? To another patient your chatting with at the dentist's office?

If you don't like the direction a conversation is taking, then change the subject, or graciously explain why you don't want to go there. It's a social situation. Instead of mocking, try being a class act and lead by example.

It's a lot easier to pull a string than to push it.

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 21

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 6:06:42 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
If somebody can't give me basic human respect and decency, they clearly ain't anybody I want anything to do with. Not if they are playing the "You're a DOM card" and not looking at me as a human being.

Agreed. There are tons and tons of women who are "damaged goods" and I don't want to be around. It's the OTHER ones that are more interesting though.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 22

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 6:39:12 AM

chatterbox24

Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline

Its really pretty simple. Online or not, if people just don't show up they just aren't that in to you. And if they are coping an attitude, they probably feel bossed around by someone they feel doesn't have a right too.
Usually, they have a few people they are talking too, and if their favorite isn't on, sure they will talk to you, but they are not going to go to great lengths to keep promises.Its a way to pass time. Basically they don't care enough. There is nothing more annoying either, of someone constantly giving unsolicited advice or telling a person randomly what they expect, when there really isn't a relationship at all in place. People generally cope and attitude, whether they say it or not.
I think 90% of it is based on interest. I know when I met my past dom, I was there every time and I put up with a lot of things at first, whether I agreed or not, because of the high interest. Before that time, I pretty much would say to others, your an ego maniac, I didn't care about their wants or needs, and felt like they were trying to force things on me.

_____________________________

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(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 23

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 6:47:32 AM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

I don't really come face to face with the "You're not my Dom card", my intolerance for stupidity and bad manners usually filters them out long before we could get that far. However, I see submissives talk about doing that bullshit to other people. Using manners is a great filter. It lets you know who has culture and class verses who the ignorant pigs are.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 24

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 6:48:16 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Really? Me just wanting to get into their pants? There's a hell of a lot more I'm interested in besides that. I'm not ashamed of my sex drive nor my own sexual desires.

When somebody asks or expects me to rearrange my life or time to talk to them!! YES, I'm expecting for them to be there!! It's rather rude to expect for other people to arrange their life and time to talk, when you can't do this yourself. Why even bother asking somebody to do this in the first place.

I don't care about your sex drive. Neither do any random females. We can get laid any time we want. You can't. So of course your perspective is different.

Nor do I give a damn what age group you chase. My point is that your expectations for online behavior is entirely different than expectations for online behavior is for a 20something. You're talking to them, you need to adapt to their expectations or keep getting butthurt. Your choice.

Basically you come across like any older guy complaining about the music the younger generation listens to. Don't want to listen to it, don't hang out with people who do enjoy it. Don't expect others to adapt their behavior just because you're a special snowflake. And yes, this is what you're doing.

Sorry about the italics. Not sure how to undo that

< Message edited by VideoAdminChi -- 5/20/2013 1:27:10 PM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 7:25:11 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

Ok, after coming back to this this morning and seeing your angry responses, I still agree with everything I said. You really are not seeing yourself the same way others see you.

Maybe it's time to take a longer break from online if all of this angers you so much. Personally, you're just a bunch of pixels to me and none of what you said about others online bothers me. Why should it? Online interactions are not worth it. It's like playing a video game. When I'm done playing the game, I just turn it off and get on with life. No big deal.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 26

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 10:17:07 AM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

I was waiting to read through the whole thread before I responded with basically exactly what you just said.

To the OP:

Reading your reactions to what people have said in response to your rant, I'm more convinced than ever, that yes, it is you and the way you interact with people.

quote:

I don't think my Entitlement issues are unrealistic.

Think about that statement for a moment. You don't think they are unrealistic, but you admit you have them. Newsflash. You aren't "entitled" to anything. Once you get that through your head, life become less "annoying" for you.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 27

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 10:18:45 AM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

quote:

The other night I was chatting with somebody, who attempted a number of times to play upon my empathy and engage me into White Knight mode! Hahahah.. I actually called them on it!! Please don't attempt to play upon my empathy! I'll ice this stuff down in 2.5 seconds flat anymore. I'll point out their own dumb ass decisions.

When you're just "chatting" and then you call someone on their stuff, point out their "dumb ass decisions" and "ice this stuff down", you're out of line. You're not their dominant. If you were chatting with someone in line at the grocery store, and they start telling you about their woes, would you seriously tell them not to play upon your empathy and that they're the ones who made the dumbass decisions after all. Would you say that to a colleague at a cocktail party? To another patient your chatting with at the dentist's office?

If you don't like the direction a conversation is taking, then change the subject, or graciously explain why you don't want to go there. It's a social situation. Instead of mocking, try being a class act and lead by example.

It's a lot easier to pull a string than to push it.

evesgrden,

I was actually very polite when dealing with this girl that needed to come up with $800 to pay rent.
Her previous Master was mean and cruel, used to beat her, prostitute her out and take all money from it.
She was kept penniless and all the bills where in her name.
That story has the scent of "DUMB ASS DECISIONS" all over it!
She was trying to Play upon my Empathy, Hoping that I would be a White Knight,
and get at what's inside my wallet.

This is not the same as meeting the typical person in the grocery store,
or listening to the woe of a colleague at a party.

While I understand that you are offering me advice, on how to deal with these situation.
I really don't have an problem here in how I deal with the variety of situations.
I'm not somebody which completely lacks class or tact.

Some of this depends upon how hard they pushing their hard luck story,
along with their general character. Often at times they are the ones
doing the pushing. The String analogy you used, I love. Yes, even
attempt to pull things in a certain direction.

However, there are moments when push leads to shove and a they
have a push coming to them.

I will be silently thinking to myself "OMG What a dumbass"
without those words slipping out between my lips.

I used the phrase "dumb ass decisions" on the thread, because
some decisions are literally "Dumb ass decisions" void of any
common sense.

It's one thing to be thinking "dumb ass decisions" to yourself and being so
blunt to say "You make dumb ass decisions" to somebody directly. So at best
when talking with people, one can tactically question them or pull the string
to guide the person to some form of enlightenment about their role. Their
role and responsibility that lead to the hard times or situation.

When I made the statement.."Ice this stuff down". It does by no means
precludes doing it with tact or some class. However it does not preclude
being blunt about it either.

I really don't see it as being out of line, when people need to be called
on their own dumb ass decisions or in trying to Ice things down.

evesgrden, I'm not anywhere near as one dimensional in dealing with
the variety of situations or circumstances as you seem to think or believe.

Again, I realize you were trying to be helpful in giving advice.

However, I was not looking for advice in how to deal with Scammers, Con Artists, or even
people which are a bit like emotional vampires draining the life out of everybody
around them...trying to eat up as much empathy as possible.

Those kinds of people are rather different compared to meeting somebody
in the Grocery store who's house just burned down last night...or talking with
a colleague at a Cocktail party which is going through a divorce... or even
somebody in the waiting room of the Dentist office who just lost their beloved
pet cat last week.

There is a vast, or huge difference.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 5/18/2013 11:15:14 AM >

_____________________________

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to evesgrden)

Post #: 28

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 11:22:52 AM

evesgrden

Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline

Ok.

So could you give an example of exactly what you've said that elicited the response "you're not my dom". That's not to say that their response was appropriate, but if you're getting that repeatedly then somehow what you're saying is being received as direction or criticism.

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 29

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 11:50:51 AM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Ok, after coming back to this this morning and seeing your angry responses, I still agree with everything I said. You really are not seeing yourself the same way others see you.

Maybe it's time to take a longer break from online if all of this angers you so much. Personally, you're just a bunch of pixels to me and none of what you said about others online bothers me. Why should it? Online interactions are not worth it. It's like playing a video game. When I'm done playing the game, I just turn it off and get on with life. No big deal.

What's amazing is that this group of "others" magically has group spokes-people appearing.

No, I really don't see myself the same way that a complete stranger (intentionally keeping it in the singular tense) with limited knowledge and insight does. Even what complete strangers see various from person to person.

I've been pixelated!!! Not everybody and everything is just a group of pixels on the screen for me, although a lot of it is. People, Topics and etc.. Get pixelated and filtered out as Noise.

It's not a question of taking a break from online...it's a question of what is more worthy of time.

I remember when AOL and YAHOO Chat rooms were the rage. However they didn't do a good job at kicking the Spammers, Bot Girls, Web Cam girls and etc..out. There was a lot of stupidity, rudeness and bad attitudes that took hold of these chat services...driving a lot of people away.

You know...there are places where Online interactions are worth it. Everything is not like playing a video game online. In many ways, video games are far far more rewarding compared to a lot of the interactions on this site.

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 30

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 11:56:46 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

That these interactions you take issue with happen online is to me very important. B/c it's been my experience over the last dozen years or so that *many* people just do not take online seriously at all. They behave in ways they would never dreaming of doing in their real time life. They whys of all that I'll leave to the psychologists.

But really, I think you need to get your head around the fact that a huge percentage of online interactions are never going to have a positive outcome. Even if the person appears normal for a few hours or days or even weeks. It's the nature of the beast.

If you're serious about finding someone online, you have to develop a system for quickly determining who meets your expectations, b/c online is all about a numbers game.

If someone isn't polite, or can't meet for a convo when they said they would, whatever, it filtered them out. Don't take it personally and move on.

_____________________________

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 31

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 12:37:21 PM

theshytype

Posts: 1600
Status: offline

FR-

I'm one of those that acts online the same as I do off. If I'm greeted with respect, I'll reply with the same. For me, having a computer screen protecting me does not change who I am. Having said that, there are times in RL where I begin to feel uncomfortable and will ignore, change the subject, or walk away. Being online makes that a little easier - delete, ignore. Nothing really different there besides the means of communication.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 32

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 3:26:02 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

Seems like a lot of thin skin around here.

To give the advice yo asked about, Online or off line, I take it all with a grain of salt. "Duck's back" ya' know. Gotta' let that water roll off you or you end up all wet. I think sextred1 said it the most succinctly, "Both men and women are rude online; that is just a fact of life."

Some of the replies here are pure gold though. Nothing shows up personal issues more than waving huge red flags in vehemently phrased replies about little shit mentioned as a side bar to the topic. Granted, the OP seems a bit off center from the median social curve in his expectations, but the pretzel logic and presumptions made to voice some of these replies has me rolling.

When I am communicating with new people online, I think of it as planting unknown seeds. You tend to the ones that grow flowers and pull the ones that are weeds. Unlike the OP, the difference between online and off line doesn't bother me and I expect it. His experience is obviously different. To each their own.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 33

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 6:28:19 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

Ok.

So could you give an example of exactly what you've said that elicited the response "you're not my dom". That's not to say that their response was appropriate, but if you're getting that repeatedly then somehow what you're saying is being received as direction or criticism.

That's the thing, I don't get this repeatedly (perhaps like 3-4 times out a year)

When is does happen most of the time I blow it off because they are a complete stranger.

However ever so often, it happens with somebody I've been talking with for awhile.
They are a little past being a complete stranger. These rare cases tend to suck.

This magic combination just recently happened. The last time this combination happened
was like two and half years ago.

The issues tend to center over vanilla aspects of the other person's life. The result
of me talking an interest in a person as a whole.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

Somebody tells me that they had spent most of the day playing and working on a new song.
Naturally, I'm going to ask. You Play? Play what? New Song? Wow, you write songs?
I'm very much wanting to know a little more. Because I myself Love music.

Now, this should be the result of some amazing conversation? Right?

It's a completely vanilla topic, has nothing to do with BDSM. Should not like be pulling
teeth talking about this stuff. Right?

It's amazing how often I discover the layers of bull-shit talk simply because I'm
wanting to talk about Vanilla stuff. I'm far far from just some horny bastard trying
to get inside somebody's pants. Although I Love sex and I'm extremely sexual.

Anyways, I tried to engage her in a conversation about music. What she used to
record and compose her songs with. Sony Acid, Reaper, FL Studio or what?
Basically what DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) Software she uses.

I was wanting to know, what kind of music she was making genre wise. I was
hoping she'd share some of her recordings with me even.

So, there I was asking some direct questions about what she uses to record
and compose her music with. Which should be normal conversation. She
skirts the questions with a topic change. (warning warning something is a little
off).

I entertain the topic change for awhile, I'm flexible. However, I'm still curious
as to her music/creative sides.

I even go so far to share with her some of my own songs. Even let her know
what DAW software I love using and etc. So I am back at re-engaging this
vanilla topic.

Anyways, she pulled out.. "I just got the Hottest Heels" topic. OKAY, I'll roll
with this vanilla interest. I even have a friend who has a major footwear
fetish.

I actually love checking out pictures of all this amazing and crazy foot
wear. In fact, whenever I encounter an amazing pair of heels online some
where I'll think of her and share on her facebook page or send her a link
in email. This girl used to live 3 doors up from me at one time. Anyways,
I have an interest in Heels too.

I don't think she was expecting for me to equally have an interest in Heels
as I do with Music.

I asked her what kind of Amazing new Hottest Heels there were? and I
was sincerely interested. Brand, Color... and even would love to see
a picture of them. It really should not be a big deal here. A verbal
description nor even a quick snap picture of them. I already had face
pictures of this girl and etc.

It's rather ironic, how all of a sudden there was this amazing silence
and space that happened. I know that life happens, and people don't
get back to you right away because of other things going on.

I'm a big bad mean person. After a few days of clear avoidance tactics
over music and her new heels. I confronted her about it.

I'm not her Dom and she does not have to answer my questions.

She played "You're not my Dom" as the ultimate avoidance tactic.

The reality is that she probably does not write and record her own music,
let alone just get the Hottest Heels ever.

This is why I was prepared to Deep Six things. I suspected if I
keep re-asserting these topics and not simply let them slide by
unanswered.

I guess I'm too much of a pushy bastard. However, these kinds
of topics and conversations... should not be like pulling teeth.

I've occasionally have met somebody less than honest who was bragging
it up about Computer programming, Music or something else. A topic or
interest that I myself have. It's amazing how fast the topic changes
when I attempt to engage them on the subject.

You can literally see the "OH Shit.." expression on their face.
That somebody with a real interest in the shit they were just bragging
about (to make themselves look amazing to other people)
is attempting to engage them in real conversation.

I'm laughing my ass right now. Because only on sites like this..

Does the Dom Card get played as a truth avoidance tactic.

It's one big can of crack me the fuck up. Doms will play this
card to avoid having to deal with the truth. Sub/slaves play this
same stupid card in reverse with "You're not my Dom"... Hahahahaha

The World is in perfect order on sites like this, just with a added
layer of avoidance tactics in the social tool set.

Like I said, I'm a human being first and foremost.

Perhaps I should just work the Big Bad Dom after only Tits and Ass
and getting Laid angle.. and not give a shit about any of this vanilla
stuff. I should keep the conversation, hot and nasty. Simply ignore
talking about vanilla stuff. It's all this vanilla stuff which a lot of
people seem to lie about anyways. LOL

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to evesgrden)

Post #: 34

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 6:50:53 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

So your generalized "base line expectations when interacting with others" rant about when "they play the "You're not my Dom card"" is actually about one incident with one person in the past 2 1/2 years? So your "observance" and fact you "experienced it more times than I care to think about" is actually referring to experiencing once with one person over a stretch of years?

What a ham bone. You crack me up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
...... This magic combination just recently happened. The last time this combination happened was like two and half years ago.........

How does that equal 3 or 4 times a year? You're gonna' have to clear that up.

As a note, you should know that your luck with people being rude, whether 3 times a year or once every 2 1/2 years is better than any of us. We all trip on rude idiots much more frequently. Pass the tissues, my heart is bleeding for you.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 35

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 7:05:17 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

Creating music can be very personal.
For some people, just letting someone in by telling them they create is a big deal and is a very vulnerable (and brave for them) act.

Also asking one question, (and patiently waiting for the answer before you ask the next and the next and the next....) might be a better approach.

BTW: that is how the Man who became [my] Master approached me: He asked interesting questions.

Sometimes though, it isn't the what but the how... .

And while it may seem innocuous to you, just from what you have written here... well, you are coming across not as interested and interesting, but pushy.
Perhaps that is where the "You're not my Dom" bit is coming from.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 36

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 7:14:45 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

quote:

She played "You're not my Dom" as the ultimate avoidance tactic.

You WERE playing the Dom card here. She stopped talking to you. *HINT*, when a woman stops talking, she disappears mid conversation, she's lost interest in you and it's a sign she wants you to go away. I used to do it ALL of the time. I'd lose interest and just disappear. If you continued to follow and hound me you would get an earful from me about being desperate and they were pixels on a screen and nothing more and they should turn off their computer and get a life.

You don't seem to get the hint. So what do you do? You come back a couple of days later being pushy and questioning her and such. You start thinking you are somehow entitled to her conversation. You aren't!

Now, do you get it? If you can't decipher these things about women online, you will continue to have these problems. I'm going out on a limb here and say you don't get the nuances and signs of the opposite sex.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 37

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 8:11:09 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

So your generalized "base line expectations when interacting with others" rant about when "they play the "You're not my Dom card"" is actually about one incident with one person in the past 2 1/2 years? So your "observance" and fact you "experienced it more times than I care to think about" is actually referring to experiencing once with one person over a stretch of years?

What a ham bone. You crack me up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
...... This magic combination just recently happened. The last time this combination happened was like two and half years ago.........

How does that equal 3 or 4 times a year? You're gonna' have to clear that up.

As a note, you should know that your luck with people being rude, whether 3 times a year or once every 2 1/2 years is better than any of us. We all trip on rude idiots much more frequently. Pass the tissues, my heart is bleeding for you.

Yes, I've been a ham bone about this!! I find myself cracking myself up over this. I don't have an exact authoritative tally. It's pretty low, and yeah.. Dare I admit it. I should have simply allowed myself a few more days to chill out about it... verses creating a thread. I'm already starting to experience "WTF was I thinking".

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 38

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 8:31:06 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

^ LOL

If we can't relax and laugh at ourselves, this would be stiff and boring place.

So tell me, she was really cute wasn't she? Is that's what got you in twist, she was all that plus she was good looking?

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 39

RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle. - 5/18/2013 8:32:27 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

Perhaps because you yourself was stretching the truth when you started the thread to begin with.

quote:

I can't begin to express the amount of behaviors and things which fail at basic human decency, with this general attitude from a number of prospective so labeled sub/slaves.

quote:

It's just that I've experienced it more times than I care to think about.

So at first it is a large amount of behaviors that occur more times than you care to think about.

But then when pressed for examples because you were being very (intentionally I suspect) vague, you come back with:

quote:

That's the thing, I don't get this repeatedly (perhaps like 3-4 times out a year)

quote:

This magic combination just recently happened. The last time this combination happened
was like two and half years ago.

Sorry, but when pressed you were caught doing a bit of embellishing yourself, and still, in the example you give, you come off as being a pushy prick, and still don't understand why it happens.

And still, I stand by my original statement that it is indeed you, and not the women you are chatting with that have the issue.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 40

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Interaction with others in and out of the lifestyle.

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