RE: What do subs think of FinDommes?

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freedomdwarf1 -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/2/2013 9:31:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx You should call the police and tell them about all of this prostitution that's going on. I'm sure they'll look into it. And then possibly arrest you for false reporting...(unless there really is prostitution happening) I have, locally. And yes, the hoe's got taken away and prosecuted the moment anything of value changed hands. Done that quite a few times to clean up our local streets. Now they hang out elsewhere. quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx So, is the lady that does HM's hair a prostitute? They do have a relationship. They talk about things other than just his hair. He pays her for a service. If something happened to one, the other would be upset, but not as upset as a loved one would be. It's just business (and a bit of a friendship) It's business, not personal. The difference being, one or the other isn't expecting some sexual gratification from the encounter. Ergo, not a prostitute. quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Is the dentist he went to this week a prostitute? They also have a relationship. They also talk about things other than just his teeth. He pays her for a service. And since they've been both client/dentist and colleagues, if something happened to one, the other would be upset. (but not as upset as a loved one would be.) It's mostly just business. (and a bit of a friendship) Wait...what if...she flirted with him and purposely rubbed up against him as she worked on his teeth, and he got excited, and then when he got home, he "took care of business"? Would she be a prostitute then? Same as above - no sexual expectation. And.... the payment is for the dental work, not the sex bit; which hadn't happened (yet). But, to clarify that scenario, if he didn't go there to get his teeth done and it was solely to get his rocks off, then yes, she's a prostitute as that was the sole reason for the visit. quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Or what if he didn't wait until he got home, but got so excited sitting in the dental chair while she rubbed up against him and flirted with him that he just couldn't stop himself from release? And then he paid her her normal rate for the dental service? Does THAT make her a prostitute? No it doesn't. See above. quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Same thing with many of my clients. I don't even touch them, yet I am a prostitute? Really? Interesting. Yes, because that was the only thing your client engaged you for. Whether you touch your client or not makes no difference. There is no vested interested beyond that of the service being performed and one of you is expecting sexual gratification from it. quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx And I'm not even going to go into the whole husband/wife connections so many people make. Whatever two (or more) adults decide works for them is what they should do. (as long as they are not hurting others.) I do find it fascinating that people have such strong feelings on something that they don't participate in and doesn't hurt others. It's interesting... Husband/wife like bf/gf isn't part of that. Basically because they have a 'vested interest' in each other beyond one person paying another for a sexual service. Can you not discern the difference?? It's not that hard to comprehend.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/2/2013 9:41:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama Right, I brought up contract law to show if 1-4 aren't met, there wasn't a contract. I would think the same applies to criminal law - for there to be a crime, particular elements must be present, and am arguing that without sexual contact, there is no prostitution. I think the point is, it doesn't really matter what it actually states in any law. It's the perception of what is happening and the label that gets attached to it. Unfortunately, you can spout the specifics of legalese and contract law all day long until the cows come home. That won't change people's perception of what they see or hear or how they view it. In my particular case, I have a very specific set of ideals that go with my PoV. I don't really give a shit what the actual text of the law says - it's my opinion and nobody can say that's wrong. If you don't like my PoV, do I really care?? [image]local://upfiles/1520617/3F002B8DB14942398D98741BB207D74A.jpg[/image]

xxblushesxx -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/2/2013 9:51:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Same thing with many of my clients. I don't even touch them, yet I am a prostitute? Really? Interesting. Yes, because that was the only thing your client engaged you for. Whether you touch your client or not makes no difference. There is no vested interested beyond that of the service being performed and one of you is expecting sexual gratification from it. Husband/wife like bf/gf isn't part of that. Basically because they have a 'vested interest' in each other beyond one person paying another for a sexual service. Can you not discern the difference?? It's not that hard to comprehend. I am not arrogant enough to presume to assume that just because one is in a legal union, that their intentions are honorable. Nor to assume that any legal business relationship which involves a fetish is only all about the money. You cannot look into another's heart or mind and know what their interests are. There are many people (women and men) who marry for all kinds of reasons (some of them an exchange of sex for money btw) Please, call the police on me, and tell them I am a prostitute. I dare you. (and if you believe that all of my clients want/need/expect sexual gratification, you would be wrong. Some of them just want someone to listen to them and understand them. )

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/2/2013 10:03:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx I am not arrogant enough to presume to assume that just because one is in a legal union, that their intentions are honorable. Nor to assume that any legal business relationship which involves a fetish is only all about the money. You cannot look into another's heart or mind and know what their interests are. There are many people (women and men) who marry for all kinds of reasons (some of them an exchange of sex for money btw) Please, call the police on me, and tell them I am a prostitute. I dare you. (and if you believe that all of my clients want/need/expect sexual gratification, you would be wrong. Some of them just want someone to listen to them and understand them. ) The difference is the vested interest beyond the money and the sexual activity. If it can be shown that there is a vested interest, then it's not prostitution and I wouldn't call it that. And just to prove a point, if that scenario happened between bf/gf or a couple, it's considered ok. However, if one the said couple did the same thing to a.n.other person, one would be prosecuted for prostitution and the other half of the couple would be prosecuted for living off of immoral earnings. Then of course, the tax man gets involved for defrauding the tax office of undeclared revenue. Your laws are different to ours and have different criteria to uphold a prostitution case. But you wouldn't get away with your explanation in one of our courts if you were reported. And, the tabloid press would certainly label you a prostitute - as would many others. And the main criteria our courts would use would be the sexual gratification. If it was just a chat, and you could prove that, you'd walk free.

xxblushesxx -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/2/2013 10:13:46 AM)
Erm...the tax man likes my money just fine. Where do you live that phone sex and computer chat are illegal?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/2/2013 10:50:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Erm...the tax man likes my money just fine. Where do you live that phone sex and computer chat are illegal? UK. That's why you won't find any of those phone companies based in the UK. They are all in far off foreign lands like Ghiana etc. Our laws can't touch them there. AFAIK, in the US generally (I don't know about specific states), there has to be physical intimate contact for a prostitution case to even get to court - let alone win it. That's not the case here. I dated a prostitute for 4 years trying to get her off the drugs habit she had. I landed in court no end of times with various charges ranging from living off of immoral earnings, being a pimp, harbouring a criminal... even resisting arrest because they tried to take me in when I was at work 15 miles away when she got dragged in for prostitution for the umteenth time. We even got arrested (twice) when we went for a drink at my local pub together. In every case, I had to prove I had some other vested interest (as a couple and not as a client) when I was with her to avoid being charged. After 4 years I gave up - waaay too much hassle for me as a boyfriend. I was being labelled a pimp and a dealer by a lot of people because she was charged (and convicted) many times for prostitution and possession of drugs. For a while, I was followed and pulled up by the local law many times and asked where my hoe was when I was on the way to work (I worked night shift). I ended up making a formal complaint about it. Anyways.... I digress and don't need to justify my PoV to you or anyone else. If you don't like it... tough. And that's my point about Findommes. It's people's perception of the activity, not the legality of it. And that's why many people, here on CM and on other sites, aren't that friendly when it comes to labelling Findommes as prostitutes. Call it what you like; justify it how you will - it won't change people's perception of that particular activity. And that would also explain the general animosity against them when one pops up.

xxblushesxx -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/2/2013 11:35:55 AM)
Have you heard of Universal Talk? I worked for them ages ago, and they are big. And in the UK. I will say some of my favorite (and kinkiest!) customers are my UK boys. And of course, showing myself to be the reasonable, articulate, caring person I am, and explaining what it is we do to those who are uninformed may change some people's minds. In fact, I know it has at least one, because he became a customer of mine. The only thing I can do is show you who and what I am. You and the "others" you speak of may try to put me inside some little box, but I am unique, as are all humans, and I don't fit neatly into the category you are attempting to force me into.

xxblushesxx -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/2/2013 11:40:36 AM)
ETA: Here is a prominent UK phone sex, cam, etc. site: http://www.xxxpanded.com/chat

khorakhane -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/7/2013 7:41:43 AM)
I think that financial domination is something that can be done in a relationship who lasts for a long time, in which there's trust and consciousness... I don't like financial domination alone.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/7/2013 7:52:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx ETA: Here is a prominent UK phone sex, cam, etc. site: http://www.xxxpanded.com/chat And most 090 numbers are routed outside of the UK too. There have been numerous warnings about that. Maybe you have found ONE out of thousands. And it's not that prominent. I haven't heard of it or seen any ads for it on late night porn channels or other porn sites either.

JeffBC -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/7/2013 11:00:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx So, is the lady that does HM's hair a prostitute? If this is what you carried away from my postings then I encourage you to simply take the ball and run with it.

polaranda -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/7/2013 11:11:09 AM)
Correct me if I am wrong but the query was about what subs think of the ppractice of findom. Its only my opinion and I am sure that some subs enjoy giving financial domination to a findom woman. I myself see it as somebody preying g on the weakness of othhersfor personal gain

JeffBC -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/7/2013 2:15:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: polaranda Correct me if I am wrong but the query was about what subs think of the ppractice of findom. Its only my opinion and I am sure that some subs enjoy giving financial domination to a findom woman. I myself see it as somebody preying g on the weakness of othhersfor personal gain Nope, you're right and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I feel obligated to point out though that many people say the same thing of TPE "slaves". But the characterization that I am "taking advantage of the 'weakness' in my wife for personal gain" misses the mark. In some viewpoints it'd be true but in any sane world it'd be nuts.

PrincessDonna11 -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/7/2013 3:11:31 PM)
Fin Domme over pro Domme? Ive done fin and its each to his own.......I like for a sub to think for himself as to what may please me....if he is live in he already knows the bills that he (or she) is responsible for, now not keeping THAT up is a dismiss!

evesgrden -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/7/2013 5:16:55 PM)
quote: I therefore argue that without some form of sexual contact (and payment), there is no prostitution. Jimmy Swaggart. Didn't touch her, but paid to watch her masturbate. I don't recall whether the courts got involved, but general consensus was that he paid for sex... even though he never touched her. But that paid relationship was about sex. And I doubt he chose her because she wore sweats and sneakers. just sayin'

socalsissi -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/12/2013 2:27:00 AM)
as a slave/ sub the idea of bdsm isn't about money and fianances. its the ground works to a lifestyle that each person takes pride in their roles. its about servitude, loyalty, dominating, roleplaying relationships between 2 or more people. this financial thing is fairly recent semi old. i dont feel comfortable and don't like the idea, that i have to pay you to serve you in complete submission. say you get into an accident or need car repairs, thats like me paying you to fix your car. thats not right. when it comes to r/t session that gifts are welcome. subs can give gifts like toys, or a movie , lingerie. but no money should be transferred. i also believe that when a gift is given because its expected, it doesnt mean anything. but when you give a gift when its not expected, it means soo much more. its the idea of having a sugar daddy but she being in control. or sugar moma and he being in control.. this isnt my idea of bdsm.

xxblushesxx -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/12/2013 2:30:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evesgrden quote: I therefore argue that without some form of sexual contact (and payment), there is no prostitution. Jimmy Swaggart. Didn't touch her, but paid to watch her masturbate. I don't recall whether the courts got involved, but general consensus was that he paid for sex... even though he never touched her. But that paid relationship was about sex. And I doubt he chose her because she wore sweats and sneakers. just sayin' So did you ever watch a dirty movie? I guess you were paying for prostitution. Are pay to view cam sites now prostitution?

Zonie63 -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/12/2013 6:18:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx quote: ORIGINAL: evesgrden quote: I therefore argue that without some form of sexual contact (and payment), there is no prostitution. Jimmy Swaggart. Didn't touch her, but paid to watch her masturbate. I don't recall whether the courts got involved, but general consensus was that he paid for sex... even though he never touched her. But that paid relationship was about sex. And I doubt he chose her because she wore sweats and sneakers. just sayin' So did you ever watch a dirty movie? I guess you were paying for prostitution. Are pay to view cam sites now prostitution? I think in these instances, the payment would be for some form of sexual gratification, not for "prostitution" (which is generally defined as an illegal activity). In that sense, I would agree that since dirty movies and cam sites are legal enterprises, then they couldn't be considered prostitution. But that doesn't mean that all legal transactions are the same either. Businesses don't all fall into the same category, and even if a business is legal, it doesn't mean that it's above criticism. The oil companies are legal, but they get trashed all the time. Banks, corporations, Wall Street also get criticized rather severely in several circles. Legal products like tobacco and alcohol also find themselves with no shortage of critics and people lambasting them for what they do. In their eyes, a smoker like myself might be no different than some addict shooting heroin in a dark alley. While I wouldn't agree with that characterization, I would still understand where they're coming from. But regardless of how one wishes to characterize it, is the actual "business" itself above reproach? Sometimes these threads feel like some kind of Randian alternate reality. If there was a thread in P&R with the title "What do subs think of Wall Street bankers?" it would be a no-holds barred free-for-all.

NiceAnimal -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/12/2013 7:07:24 AM)
Not being a sub, I have no particular contribution to this thread. I wanted to comment on something else - the gender specificity of bdsm jargon wording. Domme/Dom/Master/Mistress/Cuckold/Cuckquean, whatever.... It's all very gender specific, when it would be preferable to have non gender specific wording. Sure the gender specificity might be helpful to some degree, or in person to person communications, but also hopeless restrictive in general discussion. This gender specificity seems to get in the way of broader and more open discussion about roles, and commonality between those roles. There are surely many examples of people getting excluded from discussions, which they would otherwise personally relate to, were it not for being excluded purely on the basis of gender terminology, and stereotypes. For a community that celebrates and embraces LGBT, polyamory, monogamy, maledom, femdom, age play, gorean 24/7, and basically everything consenting adults might do, it seems kind of odd that folks would stick to gender specific wording, and not keep everything a little broad so as to be all gender-inclusive, at least to me...

TNDommeK -> RE: What do subs think of FinDommes? (9/12/2013 7:09:02 AM)
I'm thinking you should start a new topic, as your post doesn't really have anything to do with the original topic

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