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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 5:20:57 AM   
Rule


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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 6:37:56 AM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
The pope was obviously not talking to you, but to his congregation. And Christians don't "suffer" because of those beliefs, and your "being good" goes out the window with the insult.


I don't know about that seems like the notorious catholic guilt and sexual repression would count as suffering.


Ok. I can agree with that, although when I was Catholic, I still didn't have those things in my life.

(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 6:55:35 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

It seems evident that it's quite a mixed bag and nobody, not even the scholars, can agree which it is.


It does seem that way. Now you can find something that tells me why I would care which one it was? Does it really make any difference in the long run?

As a non-christian, I don't actually give a shit personally.

The whole question was raised when I pointed out the fact that modern christian faiths are using a stolen artifact from Pagan roots (the sign of the cross) and have branded it as their own. More to the point that they have actually made it one of their fundamental roots of the faith (the crucifixion) and use the symbolism to show the world.
And from that, stemmed the questions when I said I was taught that Jesus was nailed to a tree rather than nailed to a cross.
Some sheeple are quite vehement about which it is and will argue the toss to death. lol.

So for the likes of me and thee, it is of no importance.
For some, it is all important and will defiantly defend it with their last breath.

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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 6:58:58 AM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Atheists are disliked because in order to try to prove their point, they often insist on calling people of faith (usually Christians) stupid, ignorant, etc.

No, they were disliked first. I expect that you can easily recognize that the Black Panthers didn't start at random nor do homosexuals march around yelling "we're here, we're queer, get used to it" and throwing glitter for no good reason. The same is the case for atheists, those people you are referring to are fighting for equality, you don't find that pleasant to be around because it's not supposed to be.


And what "equality" are they seeking? The only thing I see them trying to do is stamp on religion. Comparing the "fight" of atheists to the Black Panthers or homosexuals is really reaching and a bit ridiculous.

Interestingly enough, you admit that the Black Panthers were always violent from their inception, yet it was Martin Luther King, Jr. who made the most progress for civil rights, and he did so peacefully.

As for being disliked first, yes, blacks and homosexuals were disliked, although for the record, I am not aware of any violent homosexual started incidents. If you have some I would certainly be interested in seeing them.

So please, "enlighten" me...what equality are you so desperate to have as an atheist?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
But I've little doubt those that do were belligerent in trying to get their point across.

Then you'd be ignorant on the subject, here's the tamest possible advertising. Atheists advertising to other Atheists that we exist in order to try and form the sort of community that Christians take for granted. The result was hatred, death threats and hate crimes.

Legally, I've yet to hear about a "hate" crime where atheists were attacked. Again, if you have something, please by all means post it.

Yes, the bill board was quite tame, insulting no one and I have absolutely no issue with it. On the other hand I do have a problem with the Christmas themed billboard that said, "You KNOW it's a myth. This year celebrate reason." It's rude and intentionally combative. For the record, I have an issue with the Christian billboards that insult atheism as well. Religion is not something to be tossed back and forth like in a political campaign.

One is not better than the other, and there is certainly more than enough evidence here that atheists aren't smarter than people of faith.







(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 7:00:22 AM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
For the record, atheists will never *win.* Neither will Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. This isn't a win/lose situation and it is by far not even close to a civil rights movement. I'm not stomping on your beliefs (or lack thereof), but I'll be damned if I will have mine stepped on.


I certainly hope you're wrong about our winning and that we do one day gain equality.


Really, you are going to have to really show some inequality here. Acting like you are suffering from inequality comparable to the blacks and homosexuals is really laughable.

(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 7:07:45 AM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		Ello LafayetteLady!

I just want you to know that I (as a fully signed up, sea-going, nope god totally doesn't exist, atheist) respect you for your faith, and if I'm honest I'll admit to being slightly envious at times.

I don't believe in god, but I don't see your faith as a sign of stupidity, weakness of will, or anything like that. Now... if you were to insist that the earth was only a few thousand years old, then yeah, I'd be judging you a teensy bit...

While I think that claiming that Atheists are some kind of oppressed minority is a little bit silly, I think that there are times when Atheists do get some pretty nasty treatment, usually from fucked up mad-wag bible bashers.

I'd hazard a guess that there are at least as many mad-wag bible bashers out there as there are arrogant obnoxious atheists.

I'm saying this because, I'm hoping that you wouldn't characterise me as someone who often insists on calling people of faith (usually Christians) stupid, ignorant, etc.

Obviously, if you think I'm that kinda jackass then this has sort of blown up in my face - but assuming you don't, you can now say you've encountered a thoroughly pleasant Atheist.

;-)

I'd like to plug a book by the Philosopher Alain De Botton (hilarious name) called "Religion for Atheists" - It's a very thoughtful discussion, that is very much in line with how I feel about my Atheism.

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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 7:13:17 AM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I completely understand what you are saying, but there is nothing to say that God condoned their behavior. While pedophilia seems to be too common with priests, the majority are still not like that, when you consider how many priests there actually are.

No question, the pedophile priests were bad, and those that protected them were just as bad (perhaps even worse) as the pedophiles. If you said you would never be part of a church that condoned such behavior, it would make sense. But the assumption/belief that God condoned it is not only unsupported, but flat out wrong.


Actually, it's not a dig at God (I'm an atheist) but those who purport to do his bidding. ie, religion in general.... The ones who (yousta) like door-knocking me.

From when I was a kid, I thought then that church wasn't so much where God's worshippers went so much as the "right" place to be seen by other people at. Social status and posturing etc; that you were somehow better than the rest for attending. I hated church....

So you're wrong to say I'm wrong because I agree with you in that I don't truly believe a God would condone that behaviour, either. It's people who are no damned good - to paraphrase Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor character.

Focus.


Well, at this point, I can't remember your post and with 10 other pages to go through, I'm not going to look, but rather just say I'm glad we agree.

I also very much agree with the door knocking. There are members of my church that do that, and are usually dumbfounded that I refuse to participate. Then they are flabbergasted when I explain that I firmly believe that everyone has a right to their beliefs and while they disagree, they will be quite surprised when they enter those pearly gates and see the never converted Rabbi from our local Jewish center waving in greeting.

I also agree that many people attend for the social in-roads it provides. Our mayor shows up at several churches on occasion (never regularly attending just one). It's no secret to me why she is doing it. Worse though are the members of my church who seem to be "competing" with each other to see who is the "best" disciple of God. In church and in prayer group, they will come up with the most ridiculous thing (the evils of television and Harry Potter. Really?), the anxiousness to be considered "worthy" of laying on hands, and my personal favorite, speaking in tongues. They manage to do that at will! It's like a way of saying, "look how faithful I am, God has granted me this gift." Meanwhile, I know that they don't participate in local charities, and I saw one in particular (the "evils" of Harry Potter one), actually roll her eyes at a congregant who didn't move quickly enough so the "I'm so faithful" one could get into the seat she wanted. From my view, she was late, sit in the fucking back, lol.

So yes, every church has their issues, but then so does any organized group, doesn't it? I would like to change churches, but I just talked the elders into sponsoring a particular local project of mine, so now I'm locked in at least for a while. I'm trying to learn how to laugh at those types I mentioned. Basically because someone isn't always around to keep me from pointing out their ignorance. But I really need my project to go through. It will do so much for my community. So, I make the sacrifice for the greater good.

(in reply to Focus50)
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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 7:33:09 AM   
altoonamaster


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Status: offline 		i particullary love the on line preachers,telethons where they demand yu send them money. we must take the gospel to all the world.these same people have been around over 2000 yrs and yet still want to save the same people over and over again.( note its always put your donation on your credit card) . makes yu wonder if they get a cut from credit card people. for an example i sent a message to lifetoday.org who rescues females from sex slavery. when asked how i was informed the buy the females from their captors so money is made twice/these people go out get more sex slaves to ust then sell them to make more money. that money that some donated thinking they were helping. and when some of these so called people of god are investigated about their  personal lives they scream predjuice. a perfect example of this is dr mike murdock

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 8:30:55 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

So please, "enlighten" me...what equality are you so desperate to have as an atheist?

"When atheists say that they are the most hated and most despised group in America, it doesn't mean that the hatred of atheists is the most intense and strongest of any hatred. What it means is that hatred and distrust of atheists is far more widespread, prevalent, and even socially acceptable as compared to the hatred of any other group in America.

The hatred some people have of blacks or Jews may be intense enough to inspire crimes, but the number of people who hate that much is much smaller than the number of people who are willing to express hatred of atheists. Even the number of people who are willing to admit to distrusting and disliking Jews or blacks is far lower than those willing to admit to distrusting and disliking atheists.

Atheists are certainly fortunate that they aren't so intensely hated that they have to actively fear being assaulted or killed because of their atheism, but they do have to fear discrimination on the job, in the community, and even in their own families if their atheism is made known. Some even have to contend with harassment and vandalism. Distrust and hatred of atheists is widespread enough through American society that atheist have plenty of reasons to be concerned.

Some theists use the above myth to dismiss or minimize the widespread hatred of atheists. Given the prevalence of Christianity in America, it only follows that most of those who hate, distrust, and are willing to discriminate against atheists are "good Christians" who promote their religion as a force for peace. The fact that there are fewer people whose hatred of atheists is as intense as the small number who hate Jews and blacks enough to assault them doesn't justify the above claim, however.

Religious theists in America, and especially Christians, are simply going to have to come to terms with the fact that their religion may use "peace" and "love" a lot in its theological rhetoric, but this rhetoric doesn't always translate into real behavior. Some people are simply too different to love and treat as full equals. Atheists fall into this category for a large number of religious believers and Christians in America."
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/HateCrimes.htm


< Message edited by vincentML -- 5/29/2013 8:31:26 AM >

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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 10:31:50 AM   
cordeliasub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: altoonamaster

i particullary love the on line preachers,telethons where they demand yu send them money. we must take the gospel to all the world.these same people have been around over 2000 yrs and yet still want to save the same people over and over again.( note its always put your donation on your credit card) . makes yu wonder if they get a cut from credit card people. for an example i sent a message to lifetoday.org who rescues females from sex slavery. when asked how i was informed the buy the females from their captors so money is made twice/these people go out get more sex slaves to ust then sell them to make more money. that money that some donated thinking they were helping. and when some of these so called people of god are investigated about their  personal lives they scream predjuice. a perfect example of this is dr mike murdock



yes this is a terrible thing. Thankfully these people only comprise an extremely small number of Christians in general. And I know none of us want to take a tiny number of extremists and generalize it to an entire population.

< Message edited by cordeliasub -- 5/29/2013 10:32:06 AM >

(in reply to altoonamaster)
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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 12:16:55 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

Some sheeple are quite vehement about which it is and will argue the toss to death. lol.


That is funny...and others will argue to death why a catholic would cross themselves and try to claim they have some kind of exclusive right to the movement because they did it first 2000 fucking years ago. lol.

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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 1:53:06 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

Religious theists in America, and especially Christians, are simply going to have to come to terms with the fact that their religion may use "peace" and "love" a lot in its theological rhetoric, but this rhetoric doesn't always translate into real behavior. Some people are simply too different to love and treat as full equals. Atheists fall into this category for a large number of religious believers and Christians in America."


Lets just take this and other religious threads on collarme... Who receives the hate and the contempt... the religious or the atheists.

When I walk down the street and pass strangers, which are always the majority, I have no idea their religious affiliation or lack of one... On top of that I don't care. The only people who have problems over their religion or lack of it are those that open their dumb asses mouths to tell everyone.

On these boards I see few people who go around preaching a religion ...do you see anyone doing that ? But I sure as hell see many who just cannot help themselves to proclaim their atheism and their contempt for those that believe in God and they attack on every thread... So bottom line you have things backwards.

Butch

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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 2:01:20 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Religious theists in America, and especially Christians, are simply going to have to come to terms with the fact that their religion may use "peace" and "love" a lot in its theological rhetoric, but this rhetoric doesn't always translate into real behavior. Some people are simply too different to love and treat as full equals. Atheists fall into this category for a large number of religious believers and Christians in America."


Lets just take this and other religious threads on collarme... Who receives the hate and the contempt... the religious or the atheists.

When I walk down the street and pass strangers, which are always the majority, I have no idea their religious affiliation or lack of one... On top of that I don't care. The only people who have problems over their religion or lack of it are those that open their dumb asses mouths to tell everyone.

On these boards I see few people who go around preaching a religion ...do you see anyone doing that ? But I sure as hell see many who just cannot help themselves to proclaim their atheism and their contempt for those that believe in God and they attack on every thread... So bottom line you have things backwards.

Butch

Well errmmm . . . it is a Politics and RELIGION board after all, isn't it? So, now we are to stfu even on here? That is carrying oppression a step too far doncha think, Butch? Unbelievable. Imagine! People open their dumb asses mouth about their religion or lack of it on a Board dedicated to Religion. Who woulda thunk it?

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 2:03:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		Vince here was a simple idea...A Pope, leader of a major religion, in so many words saying doing good is what's important...not whether you are a Catholic or believer in any religion. A remarkable statement with no hidden meanings.

It should only get praise as a step forward for a religion with many problems ...instead it is attacked over and over by atheists ...And you claim that it is the religious, at least in the US, attacking atheists ...where...how...when?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 2:05:15 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Yes it is but that does give you the right to make false accusations...when the facts of this thread are before you.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/29/2013 2:06:10 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 2:11:57 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes it is but that does give you the right to make false accusations...when the facts of this thread are before you.

Butch

Which false accusations would those be, Butch?

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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 2:13:26 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Vince here was a simple idea...A Pope, leader of a major religion, in so many words saying doing good is what's important...not whether you are a Catholic or believer in any religion. A remarkable statement with no hidden meanings.

It should only get praise as a step forward for a religion with many problems ...instead it is attacked over and over by atheists ...And you claim that it is the religious, at least in the US, attacking atheists ...where...how...when?

Butch

I didn't say atheists were being attacked. The article I posted said they were discriminated against in the work place.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 2:15:21 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Vince here was a simple idea...A Pope, leader of a major religion, in so many words saying doing good is what's important...not whether you are a Catholic or believer in any religion. A remarkable statement with no hidden meanings.

His people walked that back. We are still going to hell. So, being a believer is still essential and the Pope was just blowing smoke.

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RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 2:19:10 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

Pope was just blowing smoke


So now you are God... you know the mind of the man... you are the intolerant one.... you are discriminating... Can't you see the hypocrisy of your words and thoughts? Maybe even just a little?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/29/2013 2:21:14 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: Yes, even Atheists... - 5/29/2013 2:21:45 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Pope was just blowing smoke


So now you are God... you know the mind of the man... you are the intolerant one.... you are discriminating... Can't you see the hypocrisy of your words and thoughts?

Butch

LMAO. That is really lame, Butch. discrimination requires an imbalance of Authority. I am not discriminating against the Pope. His people did walk it back. Calm down. Just reporting the facts.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 280
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