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RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 4:45:11 AM   
garyFLR


Posts: 4030
Joined: 5/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I was just saying what you wrote because I agree with it word for word.I don't know how to put other peoples quotes into that nice little box,yet.


. Thanks very much Charles, I appreciate the endorsement! I'm still finding my way around at the moment as well, There's a quote icon, next to the reply.
Cheers mate, Gary.

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 5:32:06 AM   
SeverinVim


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/6/2011
Status: offline 		I wrote an interesting piece on feminism and financial domination last night on my blog...

With respect to FinDoms advertising on CollarMe, FetLife, etc., I think that there is no way of lumping all of them together under a single category. For example:

1. One type of FinDom might be closer to a phone sex operator than a FinDomme. In other words, she is on this site only to make money in exchange for providing a service. Believe it or not, I think that this is an entirely legitimate pursuit and should be accepted by the D/s community. It is legitimate for phone sex operators to advertise on these sites (and logical, too!). This is an adult site, after all, and we should be accepting of vendors that are interested in serving the community's needs (much like a sex shop advertising its products on this site).

2. Another FinDom could be more of a "lifestyle Domme" than a sex worker. These women typically have full-time jobs (or independent sources of income) and are not dependent on tributes from FinSubs to survive. This kind of FinDom is more interested in establishing a long-term D/s dynamic than in making a living from doing this. This is an entirely legitimate pursuit as well and should be accepted by the community.

3. A third type of FinDom is neither a "lifestyle Domme" nor a phone sex operator. This "FinDom" is really closer to a con artist. Her goal is to make money without establishing a D/s dynamic or providing any type of service. This FinDom might promise a session with you and promptly disappear afterward. Or she might lie about her intentions. To be clear, what distinguishes these so-called "FinDoms" from the others is that they have no intention of establishing a D/s dynamic (like the lifestyle FinDoms) or providing a service (like the phone sex operators). While it is understandable that things like this "could" happen, I wouldn't condone their behavior, either, and I would hesitate to put them in the same category as the other two types of FinDoms that frequent this site for legitimate reasons.

Therefore, I would urge people to exercise restraint before condemning ALL types of FinDoms indiscriminately.





< Message edited by SeverinVim -- 5/27/2013 5:38:56 AM >

(in reply to garyFLR)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 6:09:53 AM   
garyFLR


Posts: 4030
Joined: 5/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeverinVim

I wrote an interesting piece on feminism and financial domination last night on my blog...

With respect to FinDoms advertising on CollarMe, FetLife, etc., I think that there is no way of lumping all of them together under a single category. For example:

1. One type of FinDom might be closer to a phone sex operator than a FinDomme. In other words, she is on this site only to make money in exchange for providing a service. Believe it or not, I think that this is an entirely legitimate pursuit and should be accepted by the D/s community. It is legitimate for phone sex operators to advertise on these sites (and logical, too!). This is an adult site, after all, and we should be accepting of vendors that are interested in serving the community's needs (much like a sex shop advertising its products on this site).

2. Another FinDom could be more of a "lifestyle Domme" than a sex worker. These women typically have full-time jobs (or independent sources of income) and are not dependent on tributes from FinSubs to survive. This kind of FinDom is more interested in establishing a long-term D/s dynamic than in making a living from doing this. This is an entirely legitimate pursuit as well and should be accepted by the community.

3. A third type of FinDom is neither a "lifestyle Domme" nor a phone sex operator. This "FinDom" is really closer to a con artist. Her goal is to make money without establishing a D/s dynamic or providing any type of service. This FinDom might promise a session with you and promptly disappear afterward. Or she might lie about her intentions. To be clear, what distinguishes these so-called "FinDoms" from the others is that they have no intention of establishing a D/s dynamic (like the lifestyle FinDoms) or providing a service (like the phone sex operators). While it is understandable that things like this "could" happen, I wouldn't condone their behavior, either, and I would hesitate to put them in the same category as the other two types of FinDoms that frequent this site for legitimate reasons.

Therefore, I would urge people to exercise restraint before condemning ALL types of FinDoms indiscriminately.





I agree whole heartedly with what you have written, it's so easy to tar everybody with the same brush.

(in reply to SeverinVim)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 6:27:23 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Given the responses to this thread, I'd like to put this statement on the back burner, and hopefully learn a little more before I put my two cents in...


So this is something you want to talk about, but just not right now. And in the mean time maybe I should check out your profile and maybe you can drum up a little business while you mull over what you want to say on the subject.

Tell you what, when you are ready to talk about something, why don't you type up an op that people can actually discuss.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to thegoddessxenoa)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 2:58:07 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeverinVim

I wrote an interesting piece on feminism and financial domination last night on my blog...


Thanks, but you trying to drive people to your blog is not much different than the OP trying to drive people to her profile or wishlist.

quote:


With respect to FinDoms advertising on CollarMe, FetLife, etc., I think that there is no way of lumping all of them together under a single category. For example:

1. One type of FinDom might be closer to a phone sex operator than a FinDomme. In other words, she is on this site only to make money in exchange for providing a service. Believe it or not, I think that this is an entirely legitimate pursuit and should be accepted by the D/s community. It is legitimate for phone sex operators to advertise on these sites (and logical, too!). This is an adult site, after all, and we should be accepting of vendors that are interested in serving the community's needs (much like a sex shop advertising its products on this site).


No one, to my knowledge anyway has ever said phone sex operators are bad. However, if you fail to put that right at the top of your profile, then you are intentionally misleading people (if that is why you have a profile). That, I at least, do not have tolerance for.

quote:


2. Another FinDom could be more of a "lifestyle Domme" than a sex worker. These women typically have full-time jobs (or independent sources of income) and are not dependent on tributes from FinSubs to survive. This kind of FinDom is more interested in establishing a long-term D/s dynamic than in making a living from doing this. This is an entirely legitimate pursuit as well and should be accepted by the community.


I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here. Is she looking for a relationship that includes financial domination as part of the arrangement? Or is she simply doing the findomme thing until she can find a long term partner? The first is not a sex worker, the second one is questionable in my opinion.

quote:


3. A third type of FinDom is neither a "lifestyle Domme" nor a phone sex operator. This "FinDom" is really closer to a con artist. Her goal is to make money without establishing a D/s dynamic or providing any type of service. This FinDom might promise a session with you and promptly disappear afterward. Or she might lie about her intentions. To be clear, what distinguishes these so-called "FinDoms" from the others is that they have no intention of establishing a D/s dynamic (like the lifestyle FinDoms) or providing a service (like the phone sex operators). While it is understandable that things like this "could" happen, I wouldn't condone their behavior, either, and I would hesitate to put them in the same category as the other two types of FinDoms that frequent this site for legitimate reasons.



A portion of this third group would argue that point. The other portion are people trying to make a quick buck.

I don't really have a problem with findommes, pro dommes, phone sex operators, cam girls, etc. I do have a problem with them trying to claim they are not what they are. The term "tribute" is one that I can't stand, most especially when it is being used by a pro. Does that make her feel better about her job or does she think it allows her clients to feel like they aren't visiting a pro? Regardless, if you are a pro-domme and can't embrace what you do, then you shouldn't be doing it. You are being paid a FEE for your service, not a "tribute," not a "donation."

I do think it can be a bit more difficult for those who are pro and lifestyle. Create two profiles, or simply mention your pro status in your personal one? Of course, that will eliminate many prospects who think that the whole thing is pro, or make the clients think that if they are "good" enough they have a chance to be in your personal life.

There are a number of pro dommes on here as well as a couple of findommes. They are also lifestyle. Neither of them feel the need to defend what they do (either the pro or financial aspect). They aren't here on this side for advertising, they are here for the discussion. Should the subject of financial domination or pro domming arise, they don't get all whiney, they handle themselves the way a professional should (think about that OP).

Those that like the OP come to this side in an attempt to drive people to their profile, the website, the Amazon wishlist, or their blog, really are not deserving of the respect given to those mentioned above.

(in reply to SeverinVim)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 3:03:22 PM   
TNDommeK


Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline

I like what you said.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 3:14:17 PM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK



I like what you said.



I second this!

Very well stated LL

_____________________________

LilSquaw
Lifestyle & ProSwitch
Fetish Model, Producer, and Website Owner

http://www.clips4sale.com/69201
http://www.kinkbomb.com/studio/Sadistic_Babygirl_

(in reply to TNDommeK)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 6:25:18 PM   
SeverinVim


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/6/2011
Status: offline 		Dear LafeyetteLady:

I apologize for trying to drive people to my blog. Your point is well taken, and if I could go back and delete the reference to my blog, I would. This is not a forum for shameless self-promotion (although I will say, in my defense, that I was not seeking to make a profit or to "advertise" my services).

I agree with almost all of the other points you made except for one: to me, a "tribute" is a legitimate term to use in the context of financial domination (which is not the same as "phone sex work"). For example, I cannot speak for other recovering FinSubs, but often when I tributed a lifestyle FinDomme, I found it distasteful to be tributing her with a specific "service" in mind. Instead, I would tribute the FinDom to be of service to her, PERIOD. Haggling over minutes spent "playing" is actually a HUGE turnoff to many, many ACTUAL Finsubs. In other words, when we tribute, we tribute without expectations in mind (perhaps this is also why we are so susceptible to being conned, but that is another story!). Very few legitimate FinSubs regard a tribute as part of a quid pro quo exchange with a Domme (except if they are calling phone sex operators and/or sex workers who are "playing" FinDoms). By the way, in the opinion of many FinDoms, this distinction between "tributes" and "payments" is also what separates FinSubs from the fetishists in the scene: a FinSub pays to serve, a fetishist pays to be served.

I also think that everyone should be given respect, even an OP coming to "this side" to drive people to her profile. It's fine to call her out on it (and I don't think that she should do it, if that was truly her intent), but I still respect her. In my case, it was an honest mistake to mention the blog; I really had no ulterior motive for sharing it other than to provide a more nuanced perspective from a recovering FinSub. Given that the OP is just as new as I am to Collarchat, I would be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt as well, and I think that you should, too, but reasonable minds may disagree...

< Message edited by SeverinVim -- 5/27/2013 7:15:43 PM >

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 8:11:00 PM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		LOL There is one born every couple of minutes.

(in reply to SeverinVim)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 8:17:16 PM   
SeverinVim


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rawni

LOL There is one born every couple of minutes.

LOL! Well, I don't think that she was "advertising," honestly. It's more like trolling. Hint: since when do "paying" FinSubs frequent the message boards in search of FinDoms?

You don't offer meat to vegans, do you?

< Message edited by SeverinVim -- 5/27/2013 8:18:57 PM >

(in reply to Rawni)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 8:19:15 PM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		Come here little boy... I have some candy. I can teach you lots of things... of course you would be ball gagged.

(in reply to SeverinVim)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 8:28:29 PM   
SeverinVim


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rawni

Come here little boy... I have some candy. I can teach you lots of things... of course you would be ball gagged.

Shhhhhhhh...I'm supposed to be very angry at women online!

< Message edited by SeverinVim -- 5/27/2013 8:30:49 PM >

(in reply to Rawni)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 9:13:52 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		fr

I really wasn't going to comment on this thread....swear I wasn't....but(yeah there is always a but) I want to know something from the op or anyone else that feels like answering. What makes you think findoms need defended to begin with? I mean it really. Why isn't there a thread about defending helpless little slave girls from the big bad gors? Why isn't there a thread about protecting poor little sissy boys from big mean women that hate men so they abuse boys? Why isn't there a thread about the strong and well meaning doms who get their lives ruined by skanky little tramps that just don't want to have to be responsible for their own lives? If you can't read the sarcism in my little rant let me make my point a little clearer. This is bdsm. We have been being attacked for as long as any of us have been at it for what it is that we do and you know what it doesn't really matter what it is we are doing someone is always going to be attacking us for it. I have before and more than likely will again at some point do findom work but every time I see someone come to the boards to talk about it they are either men bitching because they don't get what they want, women bitching because they don't have the nerve to do it(or think its wrong on a moral level) or they are women doing adverts for themselves.....don't lie ladies each and everyone of us know what you are doing and you do too. So I think I'm going to give a little unasked for advice then I'm going to drop it (because I admit it is annoying me now) The advice......Do what you want. Do what you feel is right. Delete, block, curse under your breath at people that are doing things you think are wrong. Then move the fuck on.

*oh* and have a nice day :)

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to SeverinVim)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 9:52:16 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline 		There are two types of people in this world. Those who try to divide everybody into two, or slightly more, types and those who don't.

(in reply to MissImmortalPain)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 10:16:49 PM   
crwlon4


Posts: 47
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		Dang, MissImmortalPain says exactly what I am thinking, partially why I don't post often. Someone is always hitting my point before I do. Well said and right on target.

(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/27/2013 11:27:09 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		I will take the shameless plug to your blog as a mere mistake on your part.

As for the rest, read my post again, because you really didn't grasp what I said.

EVERY sub is *supposed* to be doing things for their dominant just to be of service to them. I realize that "tribute" is a popular term to findommes. Popular does not, however, make something legitimate.

What you have done is confuse prodommes and findommes. Like it or not, a pro domme is basically telling you that it costs "x" for "y" amount of time doing "z." I'm not going to speak of whether or not they *haggle* over price because I honestly don't know. Although I have a feeling the pros here might chuckle at the idea. That is, and I said it in my other post, completely different from a findomme. In any and all cases, however, the term "tribute" is not a "legitimate" term for what is happening.

Calling someone on their bullshit is not necessarily disrespect. I didn't say she was a lousy whore who needed to come to this side because rent was due soon and she needed come customers. That would have been disrespectful.

I did definitely call her out on the bullshit reason she made the post and the bullshit in her profile. If you think I find the term "tribute" distasteful, think for a moment what I think of someone calling it "donations." It's all a way of saying, I want your money. I don't necessarily have trouble with someone wanting your money or you for giving it, but don't try to dress it up.

It's funny how they call you guys "pay piggies." Since they use terms to intentionally try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

(in reply to SeverinVim)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/28/2013 12:19:13 AM   
TNDommeK


Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		As a pro, I can assure..there is no haggling. Lol I would chuckle at that idea.
As a fin domme, I do use the word tribute. But it is for service, not for a specific thing. As a pro I say "fee".


I agree with LL on not dressing it up. To Me, if I control your finances, and take time out of my life to do so, I will be taking something. Or the sub will be giving me something. However you want to say it. It is what it is.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/28/2013 1:51:01 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Thank you both, LL and K, for saying something I would have had no problem saying either. When I pro they are buying something. A object always changes hands when I work. They are buying a service from me and I leave them with a momento of said service. When I fin, though it is rare, they are paying for a different kind of service. The men I fin for have to be willing to give up their bank account numbers, their checkbook if I want to see it, their monthly bills when I want to know where their money goes (things I have never abused by the way) I don't like the word "tribute" and I don't much care for gifts (though at rare times, birthdays and such, I have allowed them to be given to me) I don't haggle and I don't play games with people about what I do. I am not a "goddess" I do not need "tributes" ...the word makes me think of burnt offerings and if you want to burn something for me it better be a good steak and we better know each other really well. To be honest all the fluffy words make me want to ask people why they don't call needle play fun with pins or having their car worked on financing their buddys race car hobby. When I work I call it what it is and when someone pays me I expect them to call it paying me.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to TNDommeK)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/28/2013 4:32:05 AM   
SeverinVim


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

There are two types of people in this world. Those who try to divide everybody into two, or slightly more, types and those who don't.

I don't know what to say, except that you must really hate census schedules, or pretty much any form of social science research!

Dividing people, or "things," into categories is actually a primitive form of regression analysis, and, yes, admittedly you are skewing the results and presenting a somewhat "warped" perspective when you do it, but it can also be used as a tool to understanding people and capturing the differences between people, too.

Considering that many participants in this forum tend to lump all FinDoms into a single, catch-all "category," I don't think that my three-category model is lacking in nuance. The point of it was to show that being a FinDom could be perfectly legitimate, or perfectly illegitimate, depending on the individuals involved. And, yes, there is quite a bit of overlap between the categories I enumerated (and between FinDoms and Pro Dommes). No one would deny that. But that wasn't the point that I was making.

< Message edited by SeverinVim -- 5/28/2013 4:36:27 AM >

(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: In Defense of Fin-Dom, - 5/29/2013 12:16:03 PM   
garyFLR


Posts: 4030
Joined: 5/11/2013
Status: offline 		I don't want to alarm anyone, but according to some profiles in the 'new user' section, a few of these girls are crooks . Apparently people send them money & gift cards, & then they disappear... fancy that .

< Message edited by garyFLR -- 5/29/2013 12:21:21 PM >

(in reply to SeverinVim)
Profile   Post #: 40
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