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REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 7:37:17 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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What Can We Learn From Denmark?
By Senator Bernie Sanders
May 26, 2013
Danish Ambassador Peter Taksoe-Jensen spent a weekend in Vermont this month traveling with me to town meetings in Burlington, Brattleboro and Montpelier. Large crowds came out to learn about a social system very different from our own which provides extraordinary security and opportunity for the people of Denmark.

Today in the United States there is a massive amount of economic anxiety. Unemployment is much too high, wages and income are too low, millions of Americans are struggling to find affordable health care and the gap between the very rich and everyone else is growing wider.

While young working families search desperately for affordable child care, older Americans worry about how they can retire with dignity. Many of our people are physically exhausted as they work the longest hours of any industrialized country and have far less paid vacation time than other major countries.

Denmark is a small, homogenous nation of about 5.5 million people. The United States is a melting pot of more than 315 million people. No question about it, Denmark and the United States are very different countries. Nonetheless, are there lessons that we can learn from Denmark?

In Denmark, social policy in areas like health care, child care, education and protecting the unemployed are part of a "solidarity system" that makes sure that almost no one falls into economic despair. Danes pay very high taxes, but in return enjoy a quality of life that many Americans would find hard to believe. As the ambassador mentioned, while it is difficult to become very rich in Denmark no one is allowed to be poor. The minimum wage in Denmark is about twice that of the United States and people who are totally out of the labor market or unable to care for themselves have a basic income guarantee of about $100 per day.

Health care in Denmark is universal, free of charge and high quality. Everybody is covered as a right of citizenship. The Danish health care system is popular, with patient satisfaction much higher than in our country. In Denmark, every citizen can choose a doctor in their area. Prescription drugs are inexpensive and free for those under 18 years of age. Interestingly, despite their universal coverage, the Danish health care system is far more cost-effective than ours. They spend about 11 percent of their GDP on health care. We spend almost 18 percent.

When it comes to raising families, Danes understand that the first few years of a person's life are the most important in terms of intellectual and emotional development. In order to give strong support to expecting parents, mothers get four weeks of paid leave before giving birth. They get another 14 weeks afterward. Expecting fathers get two paid weeks off, and both parents have the right to 32 more weeks of leave during the first nine years of a child's life. The state covers three-quarters of the cost of child care, more for lower-income workers.

At a time when college education in the United States is increasingly unaffordable and the average college graduate leaves school more than $25,000 in debt, virtually all higher education in Denmark is free. That includes not just college but graduate schools as well, including medical school.

In a volatile global economy, the Danish government recognizes that it must invest heavily in training programs so workers can learn new skills to meet changing workforce demands. It also understands that when people lose their jobs they must have adequate income while they search for new jobs. If a worker loses his or her job in Denmark, unemployment insurance covers up to 90 percent of earnings for as long as two years. Here benefits can be cut off after as few as 26 weeks.

In Denmark, adequate leisure and family time are considered an important part of having a good life. Every worker in Denmark is entitled to five weeks of paid vacation plus 11 paid holidays. The United States is the only major country that does not guarantee its workers paid vacation time. The result is that fewer than half of lower-paid hourly wage workers in our country receive any paid vacation days.

Recently the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) found that the Danish people rank among the happiest in the world among some 40 countries that were studied. America did not crack the top 10.

As Ambassador Taksoe-Jensen explained, the Danish social model did not develop overnight. It has evolved over many decades and, in general, has the political support of all parties across the political spectrum. One of the reasons for that may be that the Danes are, politically and economically, a very engaged and informed people. In their last election, which lasted all of three weeks and had no TV ads, 89 percent of Danes voted.

In Denmark, more than 75 percent of the people are members of trade unions. In America today, as a result of the political and economic power of corporate America and the billionaire class, we are seeing a sustained and brutal attack against the economic well-being of the American worker. As the middle class disappears, benefits and guarantees that workers have secured over the last century are now on the chopping block. Republicans, and too many Democrats, are supporting cuts in Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, nutrition, education, and other basic needs -- at the same time as the very rich become much richer. Workers' rights, the ability to organize unions, and the very existence of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) are now under massive assault.

In the U.S. Senate today, my right-wing colleagues talk a lot about "freedom" and limiting the size of government. Here's what they really mean.

They want ordinary Americans to have the freedom NOT to have health care in a country where 45,000 of our people die each year because they don't get to a doctor when they should. They want young people in our country to have the freedom NOT to go to college, and join the 400,000 young Americans unable to afford a higher education and the millions struggling with huge college debts. They want children and seniors in our country to have the freedom NOT to have enough food to eat, and join the many millions who are already hungry. And on and on it goes!


In Denmark, there is a very different understanding of what "freedom" means. In that country, they have gone a long way to ending the enormous anxieties that comes with economic insecurity. Instead of promoting a system which allows a few to have enormous wealth, they have developed a system which guarantees a strong minimal standard of living to all -- including the children, the elderly and the disabled.

The United States, in size, culture, and the diversity of our population, is a very different country from Denmark. Can we, however, learn some important lessons from them? You bet we can.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 8:51:24 AM   
Yachtie


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Yes. We should be just like them. Fuck what was America. Fuck what built America. Their way is better.

In Denmark, there is a very different understanding of what "freedom" means.

They most certainly do



_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 9:10:08 AM   
LizDeluxe


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Bernie lost me when he started pointing fingers. It was an interesting article up until that point.



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While is there no liberal talk radio? There are at least five conservative talk radio shows available over the air every day in the radio market I live in. Why does the liberal message fail to attract listeners?

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 9:21:36 AM   
kdsub


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Denmark has a wonderful system that uniquely fits its people, government, economic, and geographic requirements. As you have stated each country is different with obligations that vary greatly. The United States has a huge burden, the primary defender of the western world, that no country in Europe has to bare. It is an extremely costly one that takes a huge bite out of our GNP and will continue for the foreseeable future.

I hope there will be peace in the future where we will be able to redirect this cost to our social programs as Denmark has been able to do. I admire their society but realize the basic mindset of Americans in general will not allow their particular type of system. We just think different then they do but still can do much better and will when we can afford it.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/28/2013 9:25:41 AM >


_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 9:38:50 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Denmark has a wonderful system that uniquely fits its people, government, economic, and geographic requirements. As you have stated each country is different with obligations that vary greatly. The United States has a huge burden, the primary defender of the western world, that no country in Europe has to bare. It is an extremely costly one that takes a huge bite out of our GNP and will continue for the foreseeable future.


Primary defender of just the Western World? I'm all for scaling our responsibilities down and/or charging foreigners for it. Would impact the budget greatly.

quote:

I hope there will be peace in the future where we will be able to redirect this cost to our social programs as Denmark has been able to do. I admire their society but realize the basic mindset of Americans in general will not allow their particular type of system. We just think different then they do but still can do much better and will when we can afford it.
Butch





_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 9:45:30 AM   
kdsub


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I am with you... but then again I am an isolationists and always have been...but I would never want to turn our boys and girls into paid mercenaries. If we give up the protector roll Europe will just have to pick up the slack or not survive.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 9:54:42 AM   
Edwynn


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As the primary defender of the western world, it perplexes the thinking person that such country would intentionally increase that burden by invading a country that presented no threat whatsoever to our way of life. The predictable (and predicted) increase in terrorism as result of that expedition increases the burden ever more.

As the primary financial and monetary overlord of the world, it perplexes the thinking person that such country would instigate deregulation that kicked the legs out from under that structure, for sake of 'financial innovation.' This nation, and all of Europe, and Asia, are suffering from inappropriate and inexcusable economic ideology.

Take away an invasion or two here, a deregulation or two there; next thing you know, even this big country could afford almost half of what Denmark or Sweden have.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 5/28/2013 9:56:30 AM >

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 9:57:58 AM   
thursdays


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[There I go again. Sorry everyone]

< Message edited by thursdays -- 5/28/2013 9:58:20 AM >

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 9:59:32 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Yes. We should be just like them. Fuck what was America. Fuck what built America.



'What built America' was 50% higher health care costs than any other developed nation, are we saying?

Let's double down, then!



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 5/28/2013 10:01:06 AM >

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 10:06:43 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

As the primary defender of the western world, it perplexes the thinking person that such country would intentionally increase that burden by invading a country that presented no threat whatsoever to our way of life.


I agree but reality is reality...we did...we must pay.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 10:07:28 AM   
cloudboy


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Right wing idiots have petitioned the repeal of the new health care law 37 times without offering any kind of alternative to replace it. There's another thread here about jacking up the interest rates on student loans.

There's an assumption that the free market enables everyone to achieve their own security, employment, and future --- and for those unable to succeed in this regard, well, it's their fault.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/28/2013 10:08:00 AM >

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 10:12:23 AM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
the Danish health care system is far more cost-effective than ours. They spend about 11 percent of their GDP on health care. We spend almost 18 percent.


No real comments, other than that I would like to point out -because this if often forgotten in such comparisons- that for that 11% all the Danes are covered, including dental, and everybody goes to see a doctor when they need to, and get more than basic care if such is required.

For America's 18%, a large portion of the country does not get to see a doctor, even when they really need one, and when they do see one, they only get the utmost basic care, with anything that may be further necessary but unaffordable left untended to intentionally.

As such, the 11% versus 18% is really an apple versus orange comparison, because not only do the Danes only pay 11%, they also get far superior, and far more extensive care for that amount.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 10:13:08 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

There's an assumption that the free market enables everyone to achieve their own security, employment, and future --- and for those unable to succeed in this regard, well, it's there fault.


And it is to some extent don't you agree? But I believe your statement does not represent most Americans...even conservative ones. I just think many believe help for the unfortunate should come from family, friends, and charity services not necessarily the government. Personally I think they are wrong but I understand it.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 10:23:09 AM   
jlf1961


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Well, it is said that sci fi predicted a lot of the technology we have today, so in that vein....

When you consider the many post apocalyptic books and movies that depict a future world were warlords and despots have carved out little kingdoms of cruelty and insanity, what are you worried about. I mean seriously, according to some of those books and movies it should have already happened.

I mean some friends of mine and I have an old missile installation with a SAC com bunker for a base of operations, plenty of firepower and most importantly, a large supply of alcoholic beverages so we can at least enjoy the final days of human civilization in a style that befits most ex ground pounding grunts who are perfectly willing to let the world go to hell.

On a more serious note, Obamacare is far from perfect, hell it is barely workable with that bullshit about paying a tax for not having health insurance, but nobody on either side of the fence has come up with a better plan. I am of the opinion that any plan is better than what we got, which is pricing medical care out of the reach of the middle and lower classes, leaving only the wealthy able to afford it.

That is great for the wealthy until all the lower class people die from no health care and there is no one left to do the dirty work, which refers you back to paragraph 3 of this post.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 11:19:13 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Yes. We should be just like them. Fuck what was America. Fuck what built America.



'What built America' was 50% higher health care costs than any other developed nation, are we saying?

Let's double down, then!





That's due to cost shifting, an absurd component of modern day equalitarian liberalism.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 11:25:26 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Right wing idiots have petitioned the repeal of the new health care law 37 times without offering any kind of alternative to replace it.



LMAO... why the fuck must there always be an alternative to replace? That would be like repealing prohibition and replacing it with what?

Just fucking repeal it.


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 11:46:36 AM   
mnottertail


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For even worse systems?  Fuck that.  It stays and gets fixed.  No other possibility exists.  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 11:53:19 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
For even worse systems?  Fuck that.  It stays and gets fixed.  No other possibility exists.  


Repeal is a damn good fix, imo....


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 11:59:21 AM   
mnottertail


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it is the absolute worst fix, and it is not in the realm of possible. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/28/2013 12:13:49 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Yes. We should be just like them. Fuck what was America. Fuck what built America.


'What built America' was 50% higher health care costs than any other developed nation, are we saying?

Let's double down, then!



That's due to cost shifting, an absurd component of modern day equalitarian liberalism.


"Shifting" has nothing to do with it. Shiftless politicians and shit-brained ideology have everything to do with it.

Total health care cost as % of GDP is the relevant measure at issue here, which takes no consideration as to who pays for it or how the cost is 'shifted.'

In that measure, the US pays 50% more for health care, as percentage of GDP, than the next nearest countries (Norway and Denmark).

And with worse record of outcomes than several other countries in the 'bargain,' we should add.



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