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RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 11:34:22 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Interesting tid-bit on Sweden. Another model of efficiency.
Dan West, my right hand man at Sovereign Man, is actually Swedish and on the ground right now in the country. He recently sent me a note describing the situation:
“Hundreds of cars are burning. Schools were set on fire. Police stations were set on fire. Businesses were vandalized. Rioters clashed with police. Hundreds of masked rioters ran wild in the streets.
Seeing photos and video of this you’d think it was a war zone in some unstable part of the world, not Stockholm.
Allegedly it started last week because the police fatally shot a 69-year-old man who wielded a machete in public. Now people are angry and destroying things.
Swedish politicians say the root causes of these riots are inequality of the immigrant minorities.
Bear in mind, this is a place so obsessed with equality that the words “him” and “her” have been blended into “hem”… and taxpayers fork over 70% of their income to ensure that everyone can live to an equal level.
But to those of us living outside of this statist bubble, the real problem is obvious: however well-intentioned they may be, welfare states almost always attract people who want to be taken care of at the expense of others.
And ultimately this engenders serious conflict… between those who are on the receiving end, and those on the paying end.
Occasionally this conflict becomes violent. And that’s exactly what’s been playing out.
The government has all sorts of propaganda to influence the way Swedes view the welfare state and convince us that we should pay huge taxes to support others.
In other words, we should not be economically free so that others can live for free. This is the definition of a welfare state.
And in addition to such ‘thought controls’, the Swedish government also rules with capital controls, people controls, and media controls.
The government here tries to churn citizens out as if we’re widgets coming off a factory line, influencing everything from what we think to how we spend our time.
Yet despite such a finely-tuned system, the capital suburbs practically turned into a war zones over the past week.
The politicians here claim it can all be fixed with more redistribution of wealth. It’s not enough that the average working Swede pays ~70% in taxes; if only they could extract 80% or 90% in taxes, they could solve everything!
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
People have the wrong idea of this place. It is not a well-functioning welfare state. Any system based on giving people something for nothing, and sticking hard-working, productive citizens with the bill, is doomed to fail. Sweden is no exception.
People in North America who are rapidly being dragged into a welfare state should pay very close attention… because this is the future that awaits.”
And via Bloomberg, some of the potentially incendiary reasons for the ongoing riots:
Ah, freedom!


Why are they pissed an 69 year old guy got shot? What was it that created the riot? Was it his age? What is an "excessive force" complaint? Too much missing to reliably be able to address this, imo.

70% of income, though? Holy shit...


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 11:44:03 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
ca you remember the screams of horror over Occupy?? can you remember the pepper spray and all the righties crying foul like their shit dont stink...
and they didnt have guns....what would have happened if they had? would you have joined them for trying to take the "country back" from the corporations and wallstreeet and government?
LOL real freedom my left test tickle


You do realize that OWS didn't have the proper authority to do what they did, right? That their "blocking" of Wall Street was more an inconvenience to the workers and hardly even a speed bump for Wall Street, right? As far as the pepper spray incident goes, that was law enforcement gone to excess, at the very least.

They weren't going to "take back" anything from Wall Street. That was the whole problem with OWS, imo. They only had sit-ins and other annoying actions in their bag o' tricks. Wall Street didn't give a fuck because the demonstrators held zero power over them.

Had OWS marched on Washington, where a voter actually does have some power over their representatives, then that would have been much more effective. Had the had enough respect for their surroundings (some did; Occupy Toledo seemed to keep their occupied areas relatively clean), it would have been seen in a better light, too.

I argued with Occupy Toledo people quite a bit back then, too. And, it was always about their target, not their reasoning.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 11:44:50 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Bear in mind, this is a place so obsessed with equality that the words “him” and “her” have been blended into “hem”…
 
 
This should be a signal that you are dealing with someone who is profoundly mentally handicapped, and nothing else is true either.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 11:49:06 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I do wish he would actually use proper links...not third hand information
http://www.oecd.org/about/publishing/41933898.pdf
2010
or a more recent one
http://www.oecd.org/eco/public-finance/49417295.pdf

Im not disputing anything but his useless links
omg its even hit Canada....http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/income-inequality-in-industrialized-world-continues-to-grow-says-oecd/article11922080/
It couldnt have had anything to do with the clusterfuck of 2007-8???


_____________________________

(•_•)
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 11:54:22 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Bear in mind, this is a place so obsessed with equality that the words “him” and “her” have been blended into “hem”…
This should be a signal that you are dealing with someone who is profoundly mentally handicapped, and nothing else is true either.


Any proof that the statement isn't true?




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 11:55:27 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
ca you remember the screams of horror over Occupy?? can you remember the pepper spray and all the righties crying foul like their shit dont stink...
and they didnt have guns....what would have happened if they had? would you have joined them for trying to take the "country back" from the corporations and wallstreeet and government?
LOL real freedom my left test tickle


You do realize that OWS didn't have the proper authority to do what they did, right? That their "blocking" of Wall Street was more an inconvenience to the workers and hardly even a speed bump for Wall Street, right? As far as the pepper spray incident goes, that was law enforcement gone to excess, at the very least.

They weren't going to "take back" anything from Wall Street. That was the whole problem with OWS, imo. They only had sit-ins and other annoying actions in their bag o' tricks. Wall Street didn't give a fuck because the demonstrators held zero power over them.

Had OWS marched on Washington, where a voter actually does have some power over their representatives, then that would have been much more effective. Had the had enough respect for their surroundings (some did; Occupy Toledo seemed to keep their occupied areas relatively clean), it would have been seen in a better light, too.

I argued with Occupy Toledo people quite a bit back then, too. And, it was always about their target, not their reasoning.


You do know that adam kokesh had five thousand people lined up for the now cancelled armed march on washington???
your point?
oh now hes calling on a state capitol march in all state capitols, on july 4th now? for an “orderly dissolution of the federal government” http://www.infowars.com/adam-kokesh-calls-for-decentralized-open-source-march-on-state-capitols/

The point is that "freedom" for others depends on your*generic* ideology in way to many cases
http://www.infowars.com/adam-kokesh-calls-for-decentralized-open-source-march-on-state-capitols/

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 11:58:58 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Bear in mind, this is a place so obsessed with equality that the words “him” and “her” have been blended into “hem”…
This should be a signal that you are dealing with someone who is profoundly mentally handicapped, and nothing else is true either.


Any proof that the statement isn't true?




Apparently Its one pre school in stockholm....and its Hen
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14038419
Some have called it "gender madness", but the Egalia pre-school in Stockholm says its goal is to free children from social expectations based on their sex.

On the surface, the school in Sodermalm - a well-to-do district of the Swedish capital - seems like any other. But listen carefully and you'll notice a big difference.

The teachers avoid using the pronouns "him" and "her" when talking to the children.

Instead they refer to them as "friends", by their first names, or as "hen" - a genderless pronoun borrowed from Finnish.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 12:02:48 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

People in North America who are rapidly being dragged into a welfare state should pay very close attention… because this is the future that awaits.”


Yes! Yes! Yes!

This is the future that awaits.

Please go see it for yourself, as soon as possible.

Where few people have ever witnessed violence firsthand, and every sexual assault is national headline news. Where your children will have the best education they are able to finish, no matter their sex, race, creed, income, orientation or other factors. Where your station in life isn't hereditary. Where, for the most part, only your potential and will to succeed limits your outcome in life. Where it's never a question of whether you can afford education, treatment or anything else of material importance. Where quitting your job and searching for a new one means cutting back on luxuries for a couple of weeks. Where no jobs being available in your profession means a minor reduction in living standard, or accepting a new career. Where there's no such thing as prior conditions. Where only death is the end of life.

A future without fear... if you dare.

It's the American dream.

It's right here.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

P.S.: Good going, Yachtie.


< Message edited by Aswad -- 5/30/2013 12:05:14 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 12:13:45 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Bear in mind, this is a place so obsessed with equality that the words “him” and “her” have been blended into “hem”…
This should be a signal that you are dealing with someone who is profoundly mentally handicapped, and nothing else is true either.


Any proof that the statement isn't true?





I wont insult further stupidity by pointing out that 'him' and 'her' are English and not Swedish, and let that sink in first. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 12:30:55 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Why are they pissed an 69 year old guy got shot?


Picture a Scandinavian looking utterly perplexed and mildly outraged, softly telling you «Because the police killed someone!»

That sort of thing isn't a common occurence around here. Police don't shoot or tase people on a regular basis. Sweden is rather unique in letting their police carry weapons normally, and they've paid a high price for it. Norway and Denmark have voted not to introduce armed police, based on the experiences from Sweden.

quote:

What was it that created the riot?


Thirty years of crap that came to a head when police shot a 69 year old man when he advanced on them with a machete in an immigrant ghetto outside Stockholm. Despite prompt care, attempts at resuscitation failed. Police in the district have a high turnover rate, and there have been allegations by the immigrants of police brutality, so far unsubstantiated. This doesn't stop a hundred immigrant youth from torching cars and throwing stones at the police. Police quieted it all down in the course of a week or so without escalating. No reports of significant injuries, despite a hundred enraged kids looking to do some harm.

At least nobody killed a trucker, right?

quote:

70% of income, though? Holy shit...


Not holy shit. Bull shit.

First, he's passing it off as income tax, when what he's talking about is the fraction of the GDP that ends up being collected, meaning corporate tax, value added tax, public services, everything, is in there. Second, it ins't the right figure. Slightly more than half the GDP is on the budgets. The income tax is probably between 0% and 30%, depending on your income level, with the top percent crying out that they'd like to be taxed a bit more, which tells you something about how much they're paying now (hint: probably less than over there).

Really, Yachtie's friend is either talking out his ass (human centipede in this case), or he's "a little bit on the fringe"...

Beck was more accurate in comparing Utøya to Hitler Jugend than Yachtie was in describing Sweden.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 12:43:43 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Any proof that the statement isn't true?


It's true, after a fashion.

Sweden is one of the foremost countries in Scandinavia when it comes to LGBT issues, and particularly trans* issues. The use of Spivak pronouns combines gender neutral language with sensitivity to trans* issues, as part of the larger effort to avoid imprinting stereotypes and gender rigid roles on children, instead letting the children discover and create their own identities along the way. The school in question also has third-gender changing rooms and toilets available for students that don't self-identify as one of the traditional genders, while most schools let those use the staff changing rooms and staff toilets instead and require parents to write a slip about it.

As Lucy said, it's "hen", and the corresponding English word is "sie" (IPA: /si:/).

If you like, I can look up the details, but Sylvere probably knows more than me as regards trans* issues in Sweden.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 12:46:46 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Ja, but many of the languages have a male, female and neuter component to them.

die, der, das, moeglich.......lol.  Unt nobody accuses them of zee neutrality.

And brats and junge have always been gender neutral in any language, LOLOLOL.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 5/30/2013 12:47:54 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 1:26:33 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, Ron, they've introduced a new pronoun. Neuter is inanimate. "Hen" is animate, ungendered.

Of course, the notion that pronouns have gender is in itself somewhat nonsensical, as what we have is a legacy of a more complex system. For instance, Norwegian used to have five "genders", and Swahili has- I think- eight, while one of the African languages has twenty. It's word classes, and they appear to be phonologically conditioned, except possibly for core active vocabulary (which can maintain continuity of class assignment across phonological shifts due to frequency of use being high enough for the kids to pick it up).

But I digress...

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 1:33:00 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I follow that in fact, but as I said, kinder, kids,  brat, and jungen, all have youngsterisms in their gender, no sex.

I don't see the big issue there, among all the other horseshit of that asswipe of a post from wherever bullshitsville.  It is all equally neutered horseshit, inatimate and without gender. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 1:37:25 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		I see freedom and liberty as indistinguishable constructs in the context of this discussion. And I see freedom and power as two sides of the same coin. And as an American, I prefer the construct of freedom because that is how we tend to think of things here.

My point in using the term freedom is that if you maximize individual freedom you also maximize an individual's freedom to die in poverty. Conservatives will frame it in this way. That if a few gain and many lose - that is okay because everyone has personal freedom. But, what does it mean to have the "freedom to die". When framed that way, it becomes clear, even to an American, that something is out of kilter. Maximizing individual freedom does NOT result in everyone being better off. This isn't a power issue per se. It is about having the freedom to live a decent life. And this is a clash of two groups and their respective freedoms.

The important thing even if you want to use power (although I don't know "power to die" doesn't work for me as an analogous statement) that there be balance. And while I agree with you that balance is an old concept - the fact remains that what passes for balance in the U.S. is significantly different from what passes for balance in the other countries (as you have pointed out to Yachtie). I am simply asking if there is a normative balance. And that is NOT something that has been worked out with any certainty. So I think the question is still - what is the balance?



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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 1:56:45 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Bear in mind, this is a place so obsessed with equality that the words “him” and “her” have been blended into “hem”…
This should be a signal that you are dealing with someone who is profoundly mentally handicapped, and nothing else is true either.

Any proof that the statement isn't true?

I wont insult further stupidity by pointing out that 'him' and 'her' are English and not Swedish, and let that sink in first. 


You also won't because you can't. Nice try. See Lucy's post above.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 4:12:52 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

You also won't because you can't. Nice try. See Lucy's post above.



If you think Lucys post was supporting your argument, then dream on.

If you have any doubts then re read the post you quoted, but slower.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 4:19:34 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You also won't because you can't. Nice try. See Lucy's post above.

If you think Lucys post was supporting your argument, then dream on.
If you have any doubts then re read the post you quoted, but slower.


Actually, Lucy's post did support that Ron was blathering on, as usual.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 4:22:26 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Lmao...... She pointed out your claim was based on one school......... One, not two, not three, one. How you morphed that into a nation is more blathering than any of Rons.

Sorry Ron old bean, but blather ye do........

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: REAL FREEDOM - 5/30/2013 4:25:40 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Lmao...... She pointed out your claim was based on one school......... One, not two, not three, one. How you morphed that into a nation is more blathering than any of Rons.
Sorry Ron old bean, but blather ye do........


Doesn't make it any less true, but, I do think Aswad added a bit more support to the claim, no?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 100
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