RE: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (Full Version)

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theshytype -> RE: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/5/2013 11:19:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Greta, he was willing to restrain you and give you a little pain even though it was new and uncomfortable for him. Yet you expect him to be okay doing heavier play immediately. This will never happen. He wasn't born with a flogger in his hand. He's grown up being taught not to hit girls. Expect this to be really tough for him to overcome, expect it to take months before he's more comfortable. If you really think there's a future with him, you need to thank him for going out of his comfort zone and assure him that not only did it not feel bad, it felt amazing. And next time could he tie your hands to the bed with a scarf and not only pinch your nipples but bite them. And continue thanking him for doing this for you, and that being willing to extend himself for you is what tells you what a great guy he is.



This had worked for me.

My husband would say he didn't want to hurt me. After coaxing and discussions, I'd slowly introduce something until he was comfortable then moved on to the next thing. He'd stop in the middle of something and ask if he was hurting me - total mood killer, but he needed the reassurance and no longer does that.

Now, it seems he's in competition with himself to see how red he can get my ass, admiring his work when he's done. He enjoys toys and restraints and knowing he's in charge.
Yesterday, I was being a little stinker and he had enough. He got me to the floor, pinned me down, and provided some nipple torture (which made me laugh hysterically - I've never had that reaction before) - completely opposite to how he was in the beginning.
I don't have to coax him or reassure him. He now makes the rules, stops when he wants to. Ah, it's so great.

I definitely don't think every man would make a change like my husband has, but it's possible to find. You're right, he does have to be willing (and wanting) to learn.



Greta75 -> RE: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/5/2013 11:26:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype
This had worked for me.

My husband would say he didn't want to hurt me. After coaxing and discussions, I'd slowly introduce something until he was comfortable then moved on to the next thing. He'd stop in the middle of something and ask if he was hurting me - total mood killer, but he needed the reassurance and no longer does that.

Now, it seems he's in competition with himself to see how red he can get my ass, admiring his work when he's done. He enjoys toys and restraints and knowing he's in charge.
Yesterday, I was being a little stinker and he had enough. He got me to the floor, pinned me down, and provided some nipple torture (which made me laugh hysterically - I've never had that reaction before) - completely opposite to how he was in the beginning.
I don't have to coax him or reassure him. He now makes the rules, stops when he wants to. Ah, it's so great.

I definitely don't think every man would make a change like my husband has, but it's possible to find. You're right, he does have to be willing (and wanting) to learn.


Thanks :) This gives me hope.



UllrsIshtar -> RE: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/5/2013 11:53:38 AM)

When playing with a vanilla guy, (or playing with newbie) who is open to trying pain play, but afraid he'll hurt you, play with a painscale.

Sit him down before hand and explain that you like some pain, but not too much.
Explain that on a scale from 1 to 10, a 1 means "haha that doesn't hurt at all" while a 10 means "that hurts too much I want to go softer". Tell him that the range in which you ideally like to play is from about 6-8, and that going a little over that is not big deal.
Tell him that when he hits 10, you will tell him immediately, so he doesn't have to worry about accidentally going to hard.

Now when you play, and he's unsure of how what he's doing to you is being taken by you, he can just ask you "number?" to which you can just reply whichever number you're at. That way he doesn't constantly have to feel insecure about what he's doing to you, because you have to keep in mind: he doesn't know what he's doing to you... he has no clue about how anything he's doing is coming across.

This way, when he asks for your number, and you say "3", he both knows that he's not going too far, as well as knowing that he's got a lot of margin left, as well as knowing that you would like to go harder, all without him having to sound insecure, or without you having to comfort him mid-scene.

You're opening up a whole flow of communication that will give him a ton of information that he currently doesn't have at all, which will make it far easier for him to feel secure, and push things a little further than he usually would have, without having to feel like he's accidentally going to "break" you or really hurt you in a bad way.



JeffBC -> RE: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/5/2013 11:59:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
You're opening up a whole flow of communication that will give him a ton of information that he currently doesn't have at all, which will make it far easier for him to feel secure, and push things a little further than he usually would have, without having to feel like he's accidentally going to "break" you or really hurt you in a bad way.

From the kbd of exactly that vanilla guy who's been in exactly that situation, GREAT advice (the whole post).

Another thing which I found really useful when I was totally new was that stupid doe-skin flogger someone handed me. One of the bottoms at the party encouraged me by saying, "Go ahead, hit me with this, you cannot hurt me with this... not as hard as you try." I still wasn't sure so I had her hit ME with it. Then I hauled off and hit her. HOW LIBERATING to be in an unfamiliar situation and know that really it'd be hard to go astray. Testing on myself has also been helpful although less so with me because my own pain thresholds are so high. Even stuff that serious masochists report as being pretty painful oft-times to me are entirely ignorable.

Not every bottom is required to train a top. But if you want to there's no reason it cannot be done and if the top in question is actually motivated there's no reason for it to be hard to get past the "don't hit girls" thing.

edited to add
In your example Ish, I'd encourage the bottom to stop at the 5-ish range no matter what on the first go-around. Better safe than sorry and that first experience really, really needs to go smoothly. I'd leave LOTS of margin in the very early stages.



UllrsIshtar -> RE: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/5/2013 12:36:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

edited to add
In your example Ish, I'd encourage the bottom to stop at the 5-ish range no matter what on the first go-around. Better safe than sorry and that first experience really, really needs to go smoothly. I'd leave LOTS of margin in the very early stages.



I can totally agree with that. I was speaking from personal experience, and I've got so much margin left after 10 than I don't really care if there's an accidental 15 in there, but you're right, for most players stopping at 5 the first time would be better.

The goal is to teach the top what range he has, and to make the whole thing go smoothly and make it a happy experience for both, so stopping before it gets close to risky makes total sense.



JeffBC -> RE: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/5/2013 1:08:32 PM)

Something else to add to this from my own personal experience (and this is me not necessarily everyone). For me it wasn't "don't HIT a girl". Rather, it was "Don't HURT/HARM a girl". Getting over hitting Carol was easy-peasy. All I needed was to know that I wasn't going to cause "harm" (and no Ishtar, nothing you have relayed about your own situation sounds like "harm" to me).

Another interesting thing and personal to me... I didn't find it hard to reach inside myself and find that snarly, "Blow me bitch" sort of energy. Even on the very first attempt it was in there and I could at least sense where those wires connect. There's no reason for a newbie top to be only a service top. Humans are really adaptable. If you want to connect those dots I suspect most people can. For me it was just an understanding going in that "going through the motions" would not be enough. Had the activity been more desirable or needful to Carol I'd be some level of sadist right now.



UllrsIshtar -> RE: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/5/2013 1:24:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
(and no Ishtar, nothing you have relayed about your own situation sounds like "harm" to me).



There may be hope for you yet then.

We just need to get Kana, RS and LP together to give you some classes on "creative use of hardware and surgical implements". [:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Another interesting thing and personal to me... I didn't find it hard to reach inside myself and find that snarly, "Blow me bitch" sort of energy. Even on the very first attempt it was in there and I could at least sense where those wires connect. There's no reason for a newbie top to be only a service top. Humans are really adaptable. If you want to connect those dots I suspect most people can.


Yeah I can totally agree with that. Had you told me half a decade ago I'd ever come to enjoy topping from anything else but a service top place, I'd have called you mad. But crossing the wires really wasn't all that hard. Now I get intent enjoyment out of sadism, as well as domination in a way I wouldn't have held possible before. I find that I usually even get more enjoyment out of a scene topping than bottoming, because one of the things bottom scenes always lack is that they're competing with fantasy, and never live up to the "ideal" of how I'd imagined the scene. When topping, I can control the whole thing, so I get far closer to my mythical "ideal" scene than I ever do bottoming. It leaves me somewhat jealous sometimes, but oh well. [:)]



Charles6682 -> RE: R E: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/5/2013 6:57:16 PM)

I really did try talking to her about this. I wouldn't get a response. I don't even care about the kink anymore. I just want a somewhat of a "normal" life. This doesn't change who I am. I just can't do only fantasy based relationships. I will certainly still remain her friend. If I can find a "Dominant" Girlfriend who also likes to do "vanilla" things, that would be great. I am willing to be patient. I just need to really examine where I am at, at this point in my life.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Charles, how did you approach this woman you used to know? Did you ask her out on a date and talk about your lives, see if you can resume a friendship or did you go straight to the kink you wanted her to do for you? Because she isn't a mind reader. There's no way for her to know you want a girlfriend who naturally takes the lead in the relationship and who enjoys being pampered unless you spell it out.




Charles6682 -> RE: R E: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/5/2013 7:05:39 PM)

I also don't like "safewords" being ignored.



Greta75 -> RE: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/5/2013 7:41:11 PM)


quote:


You're opening up a whole flow of communication that will give him a ton of information that he currently doesn't have at all, which will make it far easier for him to feel secure, and push things a little further than he usually would have, without having to feel like he's accidentally going to "break" you or really hurt you in a bad way.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will try that with the next vanilla guy I think is a gem and a keeper to see if it works.
In my past experience, what happens is, I usually end up convincing them to try it once, they do it to the pressure I like, but despite seeing me on high and getting multiple orgasms from it, they still tell me they do not wish to play it that way again, because it makes them feel like they are a bad guy. Like psychologically, they don't appreciate sexual plays involving such actions. That's what I find hard to counter, that even though I've demonstrated how much pleasure it gave me.



Greta75 -> RE: BDSM sex versus Vanilla Sex (6/16/2013 8:00:47 AM)

I met a vanilla guy that is like...., super vanilla, no kink at all, likes missionary.
Actually, I've already known him since last year Nov, and occasionally met for wine and just chilling, and only recently we finally hooked up sexually.
I was drawn to him because I felt he was just radiating natural dominant energy. But his never dabbled in bdsm, and have always only done traditional sex. Really want to lead him to explore new things. Pretty tricky execution. Like I feel he has it in him, but somehow, don't have the desire.



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