RE: Truth or manners (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Truth or manners


Insult the meal saying it wasn't as good as you had hoped
  0% (0)
Lie and say 'It was good, thank you'
  27% (13)
Just say 'thank you'
  66% (32)
In Chef Ramsay style, toss the plate on the floor while screaming
  6% (3)


Total Votes : 48
(last vote on : 7/21/2013 11:19:06 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message

NuevaVida -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 12:06:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci


quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype

That reminds me of a time I went with a group to a 5-star steak house and one of the people asked for steak sauce. I was so embarrassed. Of course, the chef comes out. There's just certain things you don't do. One of them is ask for steak sauce in a nice restaurant...


If you're paying for a steak anywhere, let alone a pricey 5 star restaurant, you can ask for and hopefully politely receive all the condiments you like. How arrogant and intimidating to come out and confront paying customers! But then I guess when people are willing to pay that much for a steak you could get for a fraction of the price elsewhere, snobbish and rude treatment is expected along with that price tag. I'm afraid that chef wouldn't have gotten the reaction he must've wanted if I were that customer[8|] But then, I wouldn't be paying those inflated prices to begin with.....luci

Hey there luci, wanted to touch on this one a little bit.

I've had steaks at 5 stars, and I've had steaks at Dennys, and I've had steaks at all sorts of places in between. The difference with 5 stars is they are serving aged beef that the other places don't have access to. It's even difficult for you & I to get that kind of beef (not common in the local grocery store). So the cut of beef is exquisite, and really not the same steak you are getting at a fraction of the price somewhere else. There really is a notable difference in flavor (and why it's such a RARE treat to pay for a 5 star to enjoy), and in most cases, steak sauce isn't needed.

The chefs at those 5 stars meet culinary standards that are set very high. So they are not just extremely picky that what they serve is top notch, but they are required to meet standards. This is why it's hard to get a steak "well done" (my ex husband would ask for his filet mignon well done and has been denied), etc.

Now, I don't get embarrassed when people with me ask for these things. But I understand asking for well done and steak sauce is akin to the guy I was dating slathering ketchup all over my grandmother's Italian pasta, which has served the family for years lol. I don't think it's an elitism thing, it just kind of defeats the purpose and is a waste of money to alter the flavor of a very high quality cut of meat like that. Then again, to each their own. Should the restaurant oblige anyway? Yes, I think they should. But sometimes they see it as insulting as I saw the ketchup. [:)]

This reminds me of one of my favorite movies, "Big Night" (Stanley Tucci, Tony Shalhoub, Mini Driver, Isabela Roselini). Two Italians come to American (East Coast) to make a life, in the 50s I think? They open an authentic Italian restaurant down the street from an Americanized, flashy Italian joint, and they are really struggling. A customer who ordered Risotto asks for a side of spaghetti to accompany it (while her husband is loading and loading the Parmesan on his pasta). 2 minutes into the clip, Tucci and Shalhoub are arguing in about it in the kitchen. It's hilarous. Shalhoub calls her a "criminal" for wanting starch with starch [8D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLWy9Wp_RWY




JeffBC -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 12:32:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
The chefs at those 5 stars meet culinary standards that are set very high. So they are not just extremely picky that what they serve is top notch, but they are required to meet standards.

OK, not to be deliberately stupid here since I am well aware of the difference between Morton's steak and safeway steak but...

No, the chefs at those 5 star restaurants are not required to meet those standards and if I owned such an establishment and any alleged professional chef of mine said such a thing they might well be fired summarily (and yes, I mean that... canned on the spot as too big of a threat to my business to allow to work even that evening). What the chef at that 5 star restaurant is required to do is to give me an experience overall which warrants spending $100 on a steak when I could've spent $10. Saying "no" to me isn't a great way to do that.

This is why it's hard to get a steak "well done"
I have never in my life found it hard to get a steak well done... I often times wonder what people mean when they say "5 star" or "upscale" because in the "upscale" places I frequent getting the staff to say "yes" is easy-peasy. The closest I've come to this in my entire life (even when I was still a wet behind the ears pup) was a carefully worded warning about how my choices might impact the food flavor. My response of, "Thank you. That sounds perfect." seems to do the trick. IF it did not I would be leaving the establishment in that very moment.

my ex husband would ask for his filet mignon well done and has been denied), etc.
and if that HAD happened I certainly cannot even begin to conceive of it happening in an upscale restaurant. At one point I was somewhat familiar with the Manager down at Morton's Sac. I can't believe for a second he'd be hiring or retaining anyone who thought the way you seem to be implying. His mindset, much like mine was "The customer is always right". That'd be why he got my money. Now granted, morton's sac is not 5 star in any rating system I know but it aint denny's either.



NuevaVida -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 2:57:12 PM)

The chefs at 5 stars had better meet standards above non five stars or I wouldn't be forking out that kind of money for their food. And the standard is it tastes better, is much more tender, and is beautifully presented.

I agree and have stated they should still give the customer what is asked for. Rather than abruptly fire, I would train/educate.

ETA: I had a bday dinner at Bobby Flays's upscale restaurant in Manhattan (sadly closed now) and rather than deny me or automatically grant me what I asked, the server engaged in an interesting and enjoyable conversation about the food I was asking about and I decided to try it as they suggested, complete with the table side wine tasting to best pair a perfect wine with my dinner. It was the most fabulous dinner of my life. Unfortunately the restaurant (Bolo) closed due to the building being sold.



ShaharThorne -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 3:51:41 PM)

Ketchup has HFCS in it...I would be pissed if someone asked for it on their pasta.

I am Dutch with my french fries though...I like dipping them in mayo or Miracle Whip. Can't stand ketchup.



JeffBC -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 5:10:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
The chefs at 5 stars had better meet standards above non five stars or I wouldn't be forking out that kind of money for their food. And the standard is it tastes better, is much more tender, and is beautifully presented.

... TO ME.
When it's my hundred bucks paying for that steak (and a few hundred more for the rest of the meal) there is only one standard which matters.

So let me turn this around. Based on this and other thread of yours I pretty much think what you and I have calibrated as an "upscale restaurant" is more or less the same. One time in my entire life a waiter in such a place told me "no". I haven't been to a Hilton resort since. Does this sort of thing happen to you a lot?



slaveluci -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 5:46:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


This reminds me of one of my favorite movies, "Big Night" (Stanley Tucci, Tony Shalhoub, Mini Driver, Isabela Roselini). Two Italians come to American (East Coast) to make a life, in the 50s I think? They open an authentic Italian restaurant down the street from an Americanized, flashy Italian joint, and they are really struggling. A customer who ordered Risotto asks for a side of spaghetti to accompany it (while her husband is loading and loading the Parmesan on his pasta). 2 minutes into the clip, Tucci and Shalhoub are arguing in about it in the kitchen. It's hilarous. Shalhoub calls her a "criminal" for wanting starch with starch [8D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLWy9Wp_RWY



Thanks for that. I haven't seen that movie. Looks like funny stuff[:)]

luci



lizi -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 5:48:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


This reminds me of one of my favorite movies, "Big Night" (Stanley Tucci, Tony Shalhoub, Mini Driver, Isabela Roselini). Two Italians come to American (East Coast) to make a life, in the 50s I think? They open an authentic Italian restaurant down the street from an Americanized, flashy Italian joint, and they are really struggling. A customer who ordered Risotto asks for a side of spaghetti to accompany it (while her husband is loading and loading the Parmesan on his pasta). 2 minutes into the clip, Tucci and Shalhoub are arguing in about it in the kitchen. It's hilarous. Shalhoub calls her a "criminal" for wanting starch with starch [8D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLWy9Wp_RWY



Thanks for that. I haven't seen that movie. Looks like funny stuff[:)]

luci


It's a great movie, I highly recommend it. In fact it's been so long since i've seen it, I need to find it somewhere this week and watch it again.



NuevaVida -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 6:52:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
The chefs at 5 stars had better meet standards above non five stars or I wouldn't be forking out that kind of money for their food. And the standard is it tastes better, is much more tender, and is beautifully presented.

... TO ME.

???

What's that about? I used an "I" statement. Of coures "to me." Why the huge, bolded font?


quote:


When it's my hundred bucks paying for that steak (and a few hundred more for the rest of the meal) there is only one standard which matters.


To you. [;)]

quote:


So let me turn this around. Based on this and other thread of yours I pretty much think what you and I have calibrated as an "upscale restaurant" is more or less the same. One time in my entire life a waiter in such a place told me "no". I haven't been to a Hilton resort since. Does this sort of thing happen to you a lot?

I don't know which other thread you're talking about. No, it's a very rare occurrence.

Look, I was just pointing out to luci that there are differences in steaks. I'm not sure why you seem to want to be argumentative over this....?? She seemed OK with it.

And luci, definitely see the movie - it's awesome, and one of my favs!



NuevaVida -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 6:57:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

It's a great movie, I highly recommend it. In fact it's been so long since i've seen it, I need to find it somewhere this week and watch it again.


I own it, that's how much I loved it. If we were neighbors, I'd invite you over to watch it with me. [:)]



JeffBC -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 7:01:45 PM)

quote:

Look, I was just pointing out to luci that there are differences in steaks. I'm not sure why you seem to want to be argumentative over this....?? She seemed OK with it.

Yeah yeah... mea culpa. I admit readily to the difference in steak quality... both preparation and original ingredients. I think you ran afoul of this whole thing I got going on with BDSM people and restaurants. Man, BDSM folks sure do get bossed around in restaurants a lot.



littlewonder -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 7:05:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK


quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci


quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype

That reminds me of a time I went with a group to a 5-star steak house and one of the people asked for steak sauce. I was so embarrassed. Of course, the chef comes out. There's just certain things you don't do. One of them is ask for steak sauce in a nice restaurant...


If you're paying for a steak anywhere, let alone a pricey 5 star restaurant, you can ask for and hopefully politely receive all the condiments you like. How arrogant and intimidating to come out and confront paying customers! But then I guess when people are willing to pay that much for a steak you could get for a fraction of the price elsewhere, snobbish and rude treatment is expected along with that price tag. I'm afraid that chef wouldn't have gotten the reaction he must've wanted if I were that customer[8|] But then, I wouldn't be paying those inflated prices to begin with.....luci


I was raised with the belief that there is a proper etiquette at certain places. An excellent steak (and it was excellent) shouldn't need anything other than a knife and fork, IMO. It's considered an insult to the chef - it says to him/her that it's not tasty enough. Many of those chefs have worked extremely hard to get where they are. Most people I know, regardless of their job, don't like being told they're not good at it. An artist wouldn't be happy if you picked up a paintbrush and started "improving" his painting. Some chefs consider their dishes as art.

I personally don't see it as arrogant, but I also prefer steak without sauce and eating at places with "inflated prices". To each their own.

This.



Another here...this.

In high school if you took business classes you had to take an etiquette course where we had to learn how to sit properly, how to eat in a fancy restaurant, manners, how to speak properly, how to be polite, etc....because in business these are things you need to know if you wish to get ahead. That class has helped me in more ways than anything else in life. Now it all is second nature. Everytime I think of that teacher I just think of how wonderful she was and thank her for all she taught me which includes going into a fancy place and not using steak sauce or anything else like that that will cover up the flavor of the dish. Plus there's usually no need to if the chef is good at what he does and usually when you're paying those kinds of prices, most of the time it is more than good. Then again, Master and I love going to such places from time to time. It can be fun to just have a romantic dinner at an expensive place and getting all dressed up and doing stuff like going to a play or going to see an orchestra and such.




TNDommeK -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 7:07:17 PM)

Also because at those places there aren't cooks, there are chefs. Big difference.

And you're right about what you said as far as getting ahead.



NuevaVida -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 7:16:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

Look, I was just pointing out to luci that there are differences in steaks. I'm not sure why you seem to want to be argumentative over this....?? She seemed OK with it.

Yeah yeah... mea culpa. I admit readily to the difference in steak quality... both preparation and original ingredients. I think you ran afoul of this whole thing I got going on with BDSM people and restaurants. Man, BDSM folks sure do get bossed around in restaurants a lot.

Ok. I haven't noticed anything between BDSM people and restaurants.



TallullahHk -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 7:17:42 PM)

Have you ever been to a restaurant that doesn't have salt and pepper on the table?
I've been at such places with friends who have asked for salt and were refused. The reason given was that the chef seasons the food as he wants it to be and believes it is how the food should be served. I agreed 100% with the chef.

I couldn't imagine asking for steaks sauce for a $50 steak. blasphemy! [:'(]



littlewonder -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 7:17:44 PM)

Ok, so as to the steak thing, to me neither Mortons or the Hilton is anywhere near what I would consider an upscale and definitely not a 5 scale restaurant so I would not expect their steaks to be the type of steak you would get at a place such as Le Bernardin. If I walked into Mortons I wouldn't be so mortified if someone asked for steak sauce, but if I walked into Le Bernardin and someone asked for it, I think my face would turn pale white out of embarrassment. There really is a huge difference.



TallullahHk -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 7:20:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Ok, so as to the steak thing, to me neither Mortons or the Hilton is anywhere near what I would consider an upscale and definitely not a 5 scale restaurant so I would not expect their steaks to be the type of steak you would get at a place such as Le Bernardin. If I walked into Mortons I wouldn't be so mortified if someone asked for steak sauce, but if I walked into Le Bernardin and someone asked for it, I think my face would turn pale white out of embarrassment. There really is a huge difference.


[sm=agree.gif]



theshytype -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 7:40:05 PM)

I am very thankful my mother taught me etiquette and that is exactly why she did.



TNDommeK -> RE: Truth or manners (6/2/2013 7:42:53 PM)

I knew I wasn't alone. [:)]



needlesandpins -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 8:05:51 AM)

ok if we are talking steak then I totally judge a place on how their cooks/chefs cook my steak. if it's not what I asked for then I say so and expect a reason why, and an apology. upscale, down scale I want what I want and don't care what the establishment thinks. when a guy being paid to cook my meal has the exact same taste pallet as I do he can then dictate how he cooks my food, until then he'll cook it how I want it because it's how it tastes good to me that counts, not him. if I ordered food in a place then no matter what the cost if I were told no, especially for something as simple as salt, then i'd leave the meal and walk out.

this crap about being embarrassed about someone you are with asking for steak sauce....firstly I have no idea what it is exactly, but I like peppercorn sauce with mine....but if I were the person asking for it because it's what I want and like i'd be telling you to get over yourself. why be embarrassed about someone else's tastes? a lot of people eat stuff that I wouldn't let near my mouth, but each to their own. you're just being a food snob instead of considering that that person has different tastes to you.

needles



ARIES83 -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 9:24:15 AM)

[sm=applause.gif]



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