RE: Truth or manners

RE: Truth or manners (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Truth or manners

Insult the meal saying it wasn't as good as you had hoped

0% (0)

Lie and say 'It was good, thank you'

27% (13)

Just say 'thank you'

66% (32)

In Chef Ramsay style, toss the plate on the floor while screaming

6% (3)

Total Votes : 48

(last vote on : 7/21/2013 11:19:06 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

tommonymous -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 9:35:25 AM)
Edit to add: This was a general thread reply, not meant for anyone in particular. But, NuevaVida's the lucky recipient. Give that gal a kewpie doll! Two things to add to the conversation: 1. Sometimes it's a good experience to seek out the advice of professionals, or very keen hobbyists. I went out for a steak once with someone who had only ever cooked his steaks well-done. He said that he and his wife liked them, were kind of satisfied with them, but thought that they could be improved somewhat. I suggested that he try his steak medium instead of well done. He loved it, and told me that it was tenderer, and had much more flavor, than any steak he had ever cooked, and that he was going to do them medium from now on. (To be fair, the cuts we had were more flavorful cuts, as well.) So, try a sauce-free steak cooked as recommended in a nicer restaurant some time. Or, have a good butcher pick you out a good one, and cook it absolutely no more than medium, and preferably no more than medium rare. Again, salt and pepper and nothing else. You might find that you like it. 2. Steak sauce is basically a very flavorful condiment. In my opinion, they are generally flavorful enough to almost eclipse the flavor of the steak. So, when adding steak sauce, you basically have steak sauce flavor and whatever texture the steak was cooked to. If you're going to do that, that's fine. But I think it's a waste of good steak (and good money) to put steak sauce on anything better than sirloin. And now for something completely different: I think the embarrassment some people feel when someone A1's a steak might stem from the concern that they just look ignorant (and often happily so) to many people about what steak ought to be. It sounds kind of shitty to say, but I think that's it. Do many people complain about the lack of beef options on the menu of most Indian restaurants? What about the lack of pork on the menus of most Middle Eastern restaurants? It's sort of a similar situation--"I've knowingly come to a place that has made a reputation preparing a specific thing in a specific way, but they're doing it completely wrong. They need to fix it for ME." Dueling egos, I guess...

theshytype -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 10:13:54 AM)
Food snob? Yeah, I'll call myself that. That doesn't offend me. Being embarrassed because someone else's taste is different than mine? No, that's not what I said. If someone wants to slather manure on their steak, I could give two shits so long as its not going near my mouth. What I was embarrassed about, especially when I hate being even near the center of attention, is having the entire restaurant staring in our direction when the chef came out. The entire table, minus the one individual, was embarrassed. Does that make me an elitist snob for knowing what would happen and being embarrassed for the attention? But, as long as that person got it their way right away, I suppose it shouldn't matter how everyone else felt. You know, I'm not sure I understand the difference here. Group A is intolerant of group B, group B is intolerant of group A. Who's right? Although, I don't believe by me saying I was embarrased shows intolerance. On one hand, there are people who believe that a chef is allowed to offer his dishes as he/she sees fit, on the other hand you have people that believe the customer should walk into any place and have it how they want it. To me, they both share a belief and are (usually) unwavering. If those two get together, there's probably going to be some sort of clash. I just don't want to be at the table when they do. Sorry if that offends you. Edited because of misspelling, but if I find another one I'm leaving it be.

theshytype -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 10:28:48 AM)
quote: "I've knowingly come to a place that has made a reputation preparing a specific thing in a specific way, but they're doing it completely wrong. They need to fix it for ME." Dueling egos, I guess... Thank you for this. That's exactly how I see it.

calamitysandra -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 11:22:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: theshytype ... What I was embarrassed about, especially when I hate being even near the center of attention, is having the entire restaurant staring in our direction when the chef came out. The entire table, minus the one individual, was embarrassed. ... So, that should lay the blame fo any embarrassment felt squarely on the shoulders of the chef, no? By the way, if I am splurging at a 5* restaurant, I am sure as hell not going to go for a steak. There are some very good steakhouses for that. At a restaurant of that tier I want to have something that showcases the creativity and style of the chef.

theshytype -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 11:28:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: calamitysandra quote: ORIGINAL: theshytype ... What I was embarrassed about, especially when I hate being even near the center of attention, is having the entire restaurant staring in our direction when the chef came out. The entire table, minus the one individual, was embarrassed. ... So, that should lay the blame fo any embarrassment felt squarely on the shoulders of the chef, no? By the way, if I am splurging at a 5* restaurant, I am sure as hell not going to go for a steak. There are some very good steakhouses for that. At a restaurant of that tier I want to have something that showcases the creativity and style of the chef. Why would I blame the chef? I believe that the chef is entitled to present dishes the way they want. If I don't like it, I don't have to go there. If I don't enjoy their cooking, I don't have to go back.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 1:09:31 PM)
fast reply I have never been so glad to be a simpleton who's fav steak is Flo's Filet, with s touch of A-1.

JeffBC -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 1:32:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: theshytype What I was embarrassed about, especially when I hate being even near the center of attention, is having the entire restaurant staring in our direction when the chef came out. The entire table, minus the one individual, was embarrassed. Does that make me an elitist snob for knowing what would happen and being embarrassed for the attention? That is perfectly understandable. For the record my own opinion here has absolutely nothing to do with food. It has to do with dominance and social hierarchy and who's paying the bill. I simply do not submit to my servants.

tommonymous -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 2:02:54 PM)
JeffBC, where's the line between "servant" and "subject matter expert"? I'm not being snarky, it's a genuine question. I don't think people would be inclined to tell a surgeon that they're doing it wrong. Or a carpenter or mechanic, for that matter. How often do most people cook? Once a day? Twice? Probably not eight or ten hours a day, six or more days a week. Edit: Clarity.

TallullahHk -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 4:24:25 PM)
Wow. I've never thought of a chef as my servant. What an odd way to view the restaurant industry. It would be interesting to hear Chet's perspective on that one.

ARIES83 -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 4:38:16 PM)
TheShytype, I use to get embarrassed when my girlfriends would make social blunders, or just make things awkward. Until one day one confronted me about it almost in tears... She accused me of caring more about what others thought and how I wouldn't defend her or take her side... Something along those lines anyway.(this is going way back in history [:o]) It was a wake up call! I thought about whose opinion was really important and my decision was... The world can take it's opinion and stick it up it's ass... I'd like to think I have a better handle on priorities now, I wont pander to the sensibilities of strangers. You can be embarrassed all you want girl, but it's friends and family that are really important, not made up rules about food or satisfying other peoples standards. And what Jeff said... Their job is to provide me with the food i want and to provide a nice atmosphere... It's a service industry, I'll judge them by their service to me. A chef at a restaurant taking issue with the food I like or how I like it would not be a good decision on their part.

tommonymous -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 4:43:17 PM)
You're welcome, theshytype.

slaveluci -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 5:10:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder In high school if you took business classes you had to take an etiquette course where we had to learn how to sit properly, how to eat in a fancy restaurant, manners, how to speak properly, how to be polite, etc....because in business these are things you need to know if you wish to get ahead. That class has helped me in more ways than anything else in life. Now it all is second nature. Everytime I think of that teacher I just think of how wonderful she was and thank her for all she taught me which includes going into a fancy place and not using steak sauce or anything else like that that will cover up the flavor of the dish. Plus there's usually no need to if the chef is good at what he does and usually when you're paying those kinds of prices, most of the time it is more than good. Then again, Master and I love going to such places from time to time. It can be fun to just have a romantic dinner at an expensive place and getting all dressed up and doing stuff like going to a play or going to see an orchestra and such. Yes, I know the etiquette and practice it myself when necessary. I have "gotten ahead" quite well and really do know how to conduct myself in fancy places[;)] I would never ask for steak sauce in a "fancy" place because I know the etiquette and that chefs are extremely fragile beings who can't stand the thought that their dish isn't perfect, whether it suits your taste exactly or not. When in those situations, I eat it as it is was intended whether I love it or not. God forbid one ask for steak sauce, salt, pepper or anything else even if it is needed, frankly. I just don't think a paying customer should be intimidated if he/she does. Roll your eyes, talk about them like dogs but don't confront them. THAT is lacking in etiquette if anything is. It's all about which manners one considers more important, apparently. Some uncouth person asking for steak sauce should be crucified but a bullying, insecure chef can confront them and intimidate them and that's ok. Hmmmm......luci

kalikshama -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 5:35:14 PM)
quote: JeffBC, where's the line between "servant" and "subject matter expert"? I'm not being snarky, it's a genuine question. I don't think people would be inclined to tell a surgeon that they're doing it wrong. Or a carpenter or mechanic, for that matter. How often do most people cook? Once a day? Twice? Probably not eight or ten hours a day, six or more days a week. Nor have most people gone to school for cooking.

NuevaVida -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 5:50:03 PM)
It's an interesting perspective, if nothing else - 5 star chef as a servant. The culinary industry/career field is cut throat. It takes not only some very intense schooling to get there, but a very driven and focused personality, as well. And yet the food/hotel/resort industry is a service industry. So I looked at my job. I'm in IT. What I do provides a service to the rest of the organization. And yet, I'm the subject matter expert. I've had the training. They tell me what service they would like from me...they essentially pay my salary, and I tell them what I am able to do or not, or what the best approach is to get there. I am not their servant. I am a paid professional, who gets paid for my analysis and opinions. If anyone at my company referred to me as their servant, there would be a serious problem...or laughter. The ironic thing is, the field I'm in? I tell those very people I'm "serving" what they need to do, to successfully deploy their projects. I'm the gatekeeper. And yet, the service I provide to them - my expertise - prevents project collisions. Calling a schooled, paid professional a servant seems very strange to me.

TNDommeK -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 6:01:12 PM)
I'm most definitely a food snob! Most definitely!

JeffBC -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 6:19:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tommonymous JeffBC, where's the line between "servant" and "subject matter expert"? I'm not being snarky, it's a genuine question. It's a good question so while I was hoping to put a fork in this one with my understanding comment above I'll go ahead and answer this. There is no line between the two. Someone may be both at the same time which is exactly what Carol is an awful lot of the time and what the chef/waiter/whatever is in this theoretical story. They are your paid servants who also happen to be knowledgeable about something. I might be in the mood for an education that night. Or maybe I just want a tasty steak and want it now without a lot of intrusion. The basic business situation should be abundantly clear here. Regarding your other examples, the difference here is that there is only one measure for "rightness" when it comes to food and that measure is entirely subjective. What the chef, waiter, owner, or some random 3rd party who ISN'T paying the bill thinks about it is entirely and completely irrelevant to the "right" answer. Carol is an expert oil painter (eg: she does it professionally as her career). I just made her stop on a painting because I love it and I wanted it on my wall and I'm her master. How simple is that? How is that any different than the steak situation? And to TalleullahHk... I know it's weird... but what's even weirder is that Americans don't get that. When you walk into such a place and they say "How may we serve you this evening?" what did you think they meant? I don't mean that to be snarky. I'm just pointing out that the language is plain here even if the business situation is for some reason unclear.

dcnovice -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 7:21:04 PM)
quote: She said it was "interesting." That's one of my mother's favorite adjectives.

littlewonder -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 7:37:54 PM)
"How may I serve you" is what the waiter says. Yup, he's probably gonna be your servant for the evening. BUT the chef is absolutely not your servant. I can't ever imagine picturing a chef who graduated from Le Cordon Bleu, as my slave. I could only ever see him as a professional who knows his job well and will be telling me how it is and why. I trust him to know his job well. I would trust him to know what he's doing just as I trust Master to know what he's doing. And yeah, I'm definitely, absolutely, a food snob. I wouldn't be embarrassed because the person is putting steak sauce on his steak. I'd be embarrassed because he just basically told the chef "your steak tastes so bad I have to cover it in sauce". I admit there are even times at home when I make something and Master starts covering it in sauce or ketchup. It makes me feel as if the food I make must suck so bad he has to cover the taste. Now, having been with him for a long time, I know that's not always true. He just has weird tastes sometimes. But I can't ever imagine him doing that at a 5 star restaurant unless the food was that bad and if that's the case, I have a feeling we'd be doing a lot more than just covering the taste. As NV said, I'm the same way at my job. If any of my co-workers ever called me their servant I would tell them "Ok then. I guess I'm gonna take the week off and get back to me about that whole servant thing". I'm betting after two days they're calling me in tears. [:D] My boss would be the first one begging since I basically do everything for him that he needs done because he doesn't know how to.

TallullahHk -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 7:44:26 PM)
I can honestly say I've been to Michelin star restaurants here in the states and abroad and have never had anyone ask that question. I don't view the waitstaff or chefs as servants. They provide a service, and yes, technically, they serve me, but they are not servants to me. Treating them as such is just plain offensive. I hold both the waitstaff and boh in high regard. I've had some amazing experiences in some of the world's best restaurants simply from being polite, kind and engaging with the front of house staff. I don't send food back either...believe everything written in Kitchen Confidential.

TNDommeK -> RE: Truth or manners (6/3/2013 7:48:50 PM)
I don't either. I just make the choice not to go back. Anyone seen the movie "Waiting" ? Funny movie.

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