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RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 9:05:49 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		What information is this?


My customer ranting at me that their paint job isn`t done yet?


My fiberglass and epoxy resin order/shipping confirmation call?


Oh that`ll get me in trouble for sure.....


How about that call from my tenant complaining about the hot water......I should never use the phone for such a compromising call as that.....

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 9:23:56 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

Are you okay with having this information in the hands of the US Government; All call metadata, regardless of source, target recipient, or even content (which they can't see according to this)?

Depends on how it is used. Otherwise, what's the harm?


It's called giving up our liberty. That's the harm. And, even if it's only being used in an approved (by you) manner today does not mean that it won't ever be used in a non-approved (by you) manner tomorrow. The only reason I specified "by you" is because we are talking about your view of this, no one else's.

Did you, do you, and are you going to support the US Patriot Act? Why, or why not?


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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
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  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 9:25:23 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
What information is this?
My customer ranting at me that their paint job isn`t done yet?
My fiberglass and epoxy resin order/shipping confirmation call?
Oh that`ll get me in trouble for sure.....
How about that call from my tenant complaining about the hot water......I should never use the phone for such a compromising call as that.....


I see. Does this mean that you were in favor of, are in favor of, and will be in favor of the US Patriot Act?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 9:27:26 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		That one senator was the most liberal person in the senate. Wisconsin's very own Russ Feingold. He was defeated by Ron Johnson in 2010 I believe.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 9:32:19 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Verizon and the NSA linked in collecting three months of phone numbers between americans and furrigners.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Oh dear lord. This is not even remotely the "tip of the iceberg" when it comes to NSA surveillance of international phone calls. And that statement has zero to do with any tinfoil hat of mine. That's a factual statement driven by direct commentary from people "in the know".

One of the saddest things to me is that (quite predictably) the american populace has no idea how just how little privacy they have from the government. Between the stuff it does legally (tapping international phone calls) and illegally (well, too numerous to mention) the bottom line is that the there is no privacy in the US except for that enforced by technological limits. We all know how fast technology is improving so...

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 9:42:07 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		exactly Jeff:)

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RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 9:56:53 AM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
while they are dicking around getting a ton of useless phone numbers, there is some nutbar out there buying up pressure cookers that they have been warned about but then let them slide..

Easy call in hind sight. But what if someone sets off a killer blast here after exchanging a series of phone calls with a number in a locale known to be embedded with Islamistist dedicated to attacking American interests? In that case it would be legitimate to ask why our intel services at NSA ignored the local phone caller. Easy to criticise when we are not charged with the duty of protecting the nation. And why is it an either/or function. Surely, all avenues of gathering pertinent intel should be used.

there would be no Islamists dedicated to attacking America if America had not meddled with the mid-east several decades ago (back with the Shah of Iran) so American Big Oil could profit.. so I dont see why I should give up my civil liberties and privacy cuz your govt is totally fucked up.. but at least I didnt have a kid die in a false war like many Americans have..

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RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 10:11:00 AM   
Kana


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quote:

there would be no Islamists dedicated to attacking America if America had not meddled with the mid-east several decades ago (back with the Shah of Iran) so American Big Oil could profit.. so I dont see why I should give up my civil liberties and privacy cuz your govt is totally fucked up.. but at least I didnt have a kid die in a false war like many Americans have..

1-These sweeping warrants are absurd.Equally absurd are the hidden courts that issue them.
2-While I may not agree entirely with your central thesis (I think the US did more selling of the soul to fight the demon of Communism, the big oil was just a happy side effect for BigBiz),I will mention that the US has meddled with the Mid-East going back pre shah (Heck,we're the guys who put him in power-look up Kermit Roosevelt and the 53 revolution),but we've been dicking around there,playing the politics of empire big time since about 40-41, 43 for sure when we declared Saudi defense to be vital to US National interests.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 10:31:55 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		More from politico....


The White House is defending itself against charges it secretly obtained records for Verizon phone calls made in the United States, arguing that the policy -- first reported by Britain's Guardian newspaper last night -- is a vital tool in monitoring terrorists and has the approval of "all three branches of government," according to a senior administration official. The order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizes the National Security Agency to collect phone numbers but "does not allow the government to listen in on anyone's telephone calls" unless the NSA makes a separate request, the official said.

Rep. Mike Rogers, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said today that phone records obtained by the National Security Agency "thwarted" a domestic terrorism plot "in the last few years." His committee is working to declassify information on the plot, he said.

"Within the last few years, this program was used to stop a terrorist attack in the United States," Rogers said. "We know that. It's important. It fills in a little seam that we have, and it's used to make sure that there's not an international nexus to any terrorism event that they may believe is ongoing in the United States."

He added: "In that regard, it is a very valuable thing. It is legal."

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( (> A NASTY
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(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 10:40:12 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

The order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizes the National Security Agency to collect phone numbers but "does not allow the government to listen in on anyone's telephone calls" unless the NSA makes a separate request, the official said.

Dontcha love it? Some no name court stuck somewhere populated by God knows who,making secret sealed decisions that affect millions of people.
No Star Chamber feel here,eh.
They had a lady on the radio today from the Whistleblower Project who was saying this has been going on since 06

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 10:44:05 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
They had a lady on the radio today from the Whistleblower Project who was saying this has been going on since 06

Somewhere maybe 20 years ago I was informed that any international call I made would be taped and screened because I happened to be active in data security. The person who told me this was very definitely in a position to know.

As I said, "this" is not even remotely worth worrying about. What is being reported here is so trivial compared to what is being done that it's like worrying about making a safe campfire as the forest fire sweeps down on you.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 10:59:59 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Rep. Mike Rogers, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said today that phone records obtained by the National Security Agency "thwarted" a domestic terrorism plot "in the last few years." His committee is working to declassify information on the plot, he said.
"Within the last few years, this program was used to stop a terrorist attack in the United States," Rogers said. "We know that. It's important. It fills in a little seam that we have, and it's used to make sure that there's not an international nexus to any terrorism event that they may believe is ongoing in the United States."
He added: "In that regard, it is a very valuable thing. It is legal."


I love how that fits so neatly.

    Rogers: "We have used it to thwart a domestic terror attempt. I can't divulge any information corroborating that, but I'll work diligently towards declassifying it."
    American Citizens: Hook, line & sinker


Wonder how long that will take to be declassified, don't you?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 11:01:38 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
while they are dicking around getting a ton of useless phone numbers, there is some nutbar out there buying up pressure cookers that they have been warned about but then let them slide..

Easy call in hind sight. But what if someone sets off a killer blast here after exchanging a series of phone calls with a number in a locale known to be embedded with Islamistist dedicated to attacking American interests? In that case it would be legitimate to ask why our intel services at NSA ignored the local phone caller. Easy to criticise when we are not charged with the duty of protecting the nation. And why is it an either/or function. Surely, all avenues of gathering pertinent intel should be used.

there would be no Islamists dedicated to attacking America if America had not meddled with the mid-east several decades ago (back with the Shah of Iran) so American Big Oil could profit.. so I dont see why I should give up my civil liberties and privacy cuz your govt is totally fucked up.. but at least I didnt have a kid die in a false war like many Americans have..

I agree with you about the false war. However, as to the oil, it was American, British, and French engineering that drew that oil out of the ground, not the tribal crafts of some camel jockey. If you look at the history of ME oil extraction available in several Wiki articles you will see that Western motivation evolved from the conversion of British ships to oil prior to WWI and the development of the auto and commercial airlines industries afterward. Plus, no doubt the use of tanks and bombers in WW2. The regretable intrusion into Iran was only one event in that history. Big Oil profited because Big Oil had the technology and know how. Was that any worse than what Canada is now doing to pollute northern Alberta? Give thanks to Big Oil each and everytime you drive your car or take a commercial flight back and forth across the Washington/BC border and be grateful you are not traveling via a horse and wagon. It is so easy to criticize America because we are so big and awesome. Otherwise, have a good day

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 11:10:17 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

More from politico....


The White House is defending itself against charges it secretly obtained records for Verizon phone calls made in the United States, arguing that the policy -- first reported by Britain's Guardian newspaper last night -- is a vital tool in monitoring terrorists and has the approval of "all three branches of government," according to a senior administration official. The order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizes the National Security Agency to collect phone numbers but "does not allow the government to listen in on anyone's telephone calls" unless the NSA makes a separate request, the official said.

Rep. Mike Rogers, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said today that phone records obtained by the National Security Agency "thwarted" a domestic terrorism plot "in the last few years." His committee is working to declassify information on the plot, he said.

"Within the last few years, this program was used to stop a terrorist attack in the United States," Rogers said. "We know that. It's important. It fills in a little seam that we have, and it's used to make sure that there's not an international nexus to any terrorism event that they may believe is ongoing in the United States."

He added: "In that regard, it is a very valuable thing. It is legal."




The cons have already said in so many words......NOT a scandal.....that they approved of and even called for a crack down on leaks...


I tell my friends that if they don`t want trouble, don`t do crimes and they be just fine.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 12:02:09 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
I tell my friends that if they don`t want trouble, don`t do crimes and they be just fine.

Well, more accurately, don't do anything which pisses off the government and you'll be just fine. In other words, be a good little sheep.

Out of curiosity, would you be good with the feds putting in close circuit security cameras into all the rooms of your house? Yes, I know it's (sort of) a ridiculous example but it's not that far off from them bugging the location data in your cell phone (along with a host of other shit).

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 12:09:25 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

Well, more accurately, don't do anything which pisses off the government and you'll be just fine. In other words, be a good little sheep.

Nahhhh . . . plenty of people get away with outrageous confrontations with the gummit. One can't say that on the one hand and then say we are full of vitriolic partisanship on the other. We are hardly a nation of sheep.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 12:52:05 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I agree with you about the false war. However, as to the oil, it was American, British, and French engineering that drew that oil out of the ground, not the tribal crafts of some camel jockey. If you look at the history of ME oil extraction available in several Wiki articles you will see that Western motivation evolved from the conversion of British ships to oil prior to WWI and the development of the auto and commercial airlines industries afterward. Plus, no doubt the use of tanks and bombers in WW2. The regretable intrusion into Iran was only one event in that history. Big Oil profited because Big Oil had the technology and know how. Was that any worse than what Canada is now doing to pollute northern Alberta? Give thanks to Big Oil each and everytime you drive your car or take a commercial flight back and forth across the Washington/BC border and be grateful you are not traveling via a horse and wagon. It is so easy to criticize America because we are so big and awesome. Otherwise, have a good day

meddling in the politics and govt of mid-east countries, including involvement in overthrowing mid-east govts is the major reason why islamists have a hate on for the US (& by extension, all western countries).. Maybe oil profiting from the control of the mid-east origninally was a by-product but that has evolved into the tail wagging the dog (not just Big Oil but also Big War too).. Your Big Oil is in Canada to profit, no other reason.. it cant make money if it doesnt have a source and it doesnt have customers.. btw, it goes into your tank, not mine.. I dont have a car and havent had one for a while (I dont really need one so why have one?).. vehicles are too expensive and more trouble than they are worth (repairs, insurance, costs, interest, etc) and I havent flown in quite some time also.. its too much of a pain in the arse and unless i absolutely have to, i just dont..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 12:54:31 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Gee, I just downloaded an app for my smart phone that allows me to track any cell phone number to within 5 meters of their actual location, does that make me an employee of the NSA?

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 1:11:24 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
We are hardly a nation of sheep.

Really? I can't see any other conclusion. Man, we are either a nation of sheep or a nation of utter idiots. Which one do you want?

Oh... and to the larger question of how much the govt misuse such information... let's see... we life in an era when editors and whatnot need to petition the government to stop arresting reports for covering certain events. Now you want the government to listen in on all the international calls these reporters make? We live in an era when documentary producers who make films contrary to the govt interests are routinely arrested, harassed, etc. These people were not "doing anything illegal". In fact, they were upholding the US constitution and are persecuted by the US government for it... aggressively in some cases.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 6/6/2013 1:13:23 PM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can - 6/6/2013 1:16:34 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
We are hardly a nation of sheep.

Really? I can't see any other conclusion. Man, we are either a nation of sheep or a nation of utter idiots. Which one do you want?

False choice for simpletons who wish to take it. The world is just too complex to be reduced to a single black or white choice and your postings have been too sophisticated for me to believe that's what you truly think.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 6/6/2013 1:25:28 PM >

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 40
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