Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 5:15:44 AM)

Verizon and the NSA linked in collecting three months of phone numbers between americans and furrigners.

The White House is defending itself against charges it secretly obtained records for Verizon phone calls made in the United States, arguing that the policy is a vital tool in monitoring terrorists and has the approval of “all three branches of government,” according to a senior administration official.
“On its face, the order reprinted in the article does not allow the government to listen in on anyone’s telephone calls,” a White House official said. “The information acquired does not include the content of any communications or the name of any subscriber. It relates exclusively to metadata, such as a telephone number or the length of a call.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/report-nsa-verizon-call-records-92315.html#ixzz2VRCB7rFo
original story from the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order
the court order
here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order



Politesub53 -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 5:43:37 AM)

A tricky one on the face of it.

The question that needs to be set is as follows. "Would you allow records of who you call (Not what you say) to be kept for security purposes ?"

My answer would be yes but with two provisos.

1) If records are kept solely for counter terrorist purposes.

2) If they are destroyed within a short period of time.

I am unsure what reason the Patriot Act provides for such records to be held but it must just be for terrorism, imho.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 5:54:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Verizon and the NSA linked in collecting three months of phone numbers between americans and furrigners.
The White House is defending itself against charges it secretly obtained records for Verizon phone calls made in the United States, arguing that the policy is a vital tool in monitoring terrorists and has the approval of “all three branches of government,” according to a senior administration official.
“On its face, the order reprinted in the article does not allow the government to listen in on anyone’s telephone calls,” a White House official said. “The information acquired does not include the content of any communications or the name of any subscriber. It relates exclusively to metadata, such as a telephone number or the length of a call.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/report-nsa-verizon-call-records-92315.html#ixzz2VRCB7rFo
original story from the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order
the court order here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order


According to the court order, they can't "hear me now," but they do know when I'm making a call.

It's a step up from the Patriot Act's invasion of privacy. Some Democrats loudly booed (rightly so) some of this shit when it passed under Bush, but both sides had hand in passing and extending the provisions, so neither side is blameless.

Patriot Act of 2001:

House Vote: 357 - 66 - 9
    REPUBLICAN.....211(Y)......3(N).....5(NV)
    DEMOCRATIC....145(Y)....62(N).....4(NV)
    INDEPENDENT......1(Y)......1(N)
    TOTALS............357(Y)....66(N).....9(NV)


Senate Vote: 98 - 1 - 1
    REPUBLICAN.....50(Y)
    DEMOCRATIC....48(Y).....1(N).....1(NV)
    TOTALS............98(Y).....1(N).....1(NV)



Lucylastic -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 6:20:43 AM)

most of us didnt like it when he signed the update either.
even tho Im not in the US, I do speak often with friends, customers, etc on a frequent basis, four or five times a day it seems lately, but im not in the least surprised , Ive been aware of the likelihood/probability of that and worse for longer than ten years.



tj444 -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 6:27:37 AM)

while they are dicking around getting a ton of useless phone numbers, there is some nutbar out there buying up pressure cookers that they have been warned about but then let them slide.. [8|]



tj444 -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 6:40:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

most of us didnt like it when he signed the update either.

what gets signed by the US govt never stays in the US, they push other countries to do the same shite.. My biggest problem with the US govt is that the crap they come up with in their various "wars", be it terrorism, drugs, tax evaders, etc.. they push that outside their borders.. [>:]



Lucylastic -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 6:42:23 AM)

I wasnt aware that verizon had the power to find out who sold who a pressure cooker?[;)]



tj444 -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 6:44:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I wasnt aware that verizon had the power to find out who sold who a pressure cooker?[;)]

obviously the NSA doesnt have the power to find that out either, even when warned.. [&:]



DesideriScuri -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 6:45:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
most of us didnt like it when he signed the update either.
even tho Im not in the US, I do speak often with friends, customers, etc on a frequent basis, four or five times a day it seems lately, but im not in the least surprised , Ive been aware of the likelihood/probability of that and worse for longer than ten years.


Oh, come on, now. There's no way the US Government engages in "mission creep." [8|]

lol

And people wonder why I support limitation of the authority and reach of government.



Lucylastic -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 6:51:05 AM)

they are gonna do it wether its authorised or not.
Leaks abound, stupidity reigns, and not just in the US



DaddySatyr -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 7:01:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Patriot Act of 2001:

House Vote: 357 - 66 - 9
    REPUBLICAN.....211(Y)......3(N).....5(NV)
    DEMOCRATIC....145(Y)....62(N).....4(NV)
    INDEPENDENT......1(Y)......1(N)
    TOTALS............357(Y)....66(N).....9(NV)


Senate Vote: 98 - 1 - 1
    REPUBLICAN.....50(Y)
    DEMOCRATIC....48(Y).....1(N).....1(NV)
    TOTALS............98(Y).....1(N).....1(NV)





That one senator that voted against has my vote in perpetuity (if I wind up in their state).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Oh, come on, now. There's no way the US Government engages in "mission creep." [8|]

lol

And people wonder why I support limitation of the authority and reach of government.



You're wrong! This is exactly the argument for expanding government so that they can keep us safe and guarantee that the "bad guys" won't destroy our way of life. [:D]



Peace and comfort,



Michael



LizDeluxe -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 8:07:06 AM)

This has been an ongoing issue for years. It's only news right now because one court order was leaked.



Owner59 -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 8:16:16 AM)

Meh....more like a (D) is in the White House.....


What`s next?


Accusing the president of something completely unthinkable.................. like leaking classified intel to our enemies?


Oh that`s right.......not completely unthinkable.......shrub did`it......





vincentML -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 8:27:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

while they are dicking around getting a ton of useless phone numbers, there is some nutbar out there buying up pressure cookers that they have been warned about but then let them slide.. [8|]

Easy call in hind sight. But what if someone sets off a killer blast here after exchanging a series of phone calls with a number in a locale known to be embedded with Islamistist dedicated to attacking American interests? In that case it would be legitimate to ask why our intel services at NSA ignored the local phone caller. Easy to criticise when we are not charged with the duty of protecting the nation. And why is it an either/or function. Surely, all avenues of gathering pertinent intel should be used.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 8:35:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
while they are dicking around getting a ton of useless phone numbers, there is some nutbar out there buying up pressure cookers that they have been warned about but then let them slide.. [8|]

Easy call in hind sight. But what if someone sets off a killer blast here after exchanging a series of phone calls with a number in a locale known to be embedded with Islamistist dedicated to attacking American interests? In that case it would be legitimate to ask why our intel services at NSA ignored the local phone caller. Easy to criticise when we are not charged with the duty of protecting the nation. And why is it an either/or function. Surely, all avenues of gathering pertinent intel should be used.


This court order also okays the gathering of metadata of calls that originate from and stay within the US.



RacerJim -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 8:36:04 AM)

First they came for the Bible Thumpers,
and I did not speak out because I was not a Bible Thumper.

Then they came for the Gun Owners,
and I did not speak out because I was not a Gun Owner.

Then they came for the Tea Partiers,
and I did not speak out because I was not a Tea Partier.

Then they came for the Veterans,
and I did not speak out because I was not a Veteran.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak out for me.



mnottertail -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 8:43:22 AM)

We have been waiting for them to come for you for quite some time.



vincentML -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 8:51:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
while they are dicking around getting a ton of useless phone numbers, there is some nutbar out there buying up pressure cookers that they have been warned about but then let them slide.. [8|]

Easy call in hind sight. But what if someone sets off a killer blast here after exchanging a series of phone calls with a number in a locale known to be embedded with Islamistist dedicated to attacking American interests? In that case it would be legitimate to ask why our intel services at NSA ignored the local phone caller. Easy to criticise when we are not charged with the duty of protecting the nation. And why is it an either/or function. Surely, all avenues of gathering pertinent intel should be used.


This court order also okays the gathering of metadata of calls that originate from and stay within the US.


Okay then. I can see where those calls would be useful if a local number has already been identified with a "bad guy." But, what about throw away phones? Aren't they an avenue for avoiding detection? Or am I misinformed on their utility?



DesideriScuri -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 8:56:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
while they are dicking around getting a ton of useless phone numbers, there is some nutbar out there buying up pressure cookers that they have been warned about but then let them slide.. [8|]

Easy call in hind sight. But what if someone sets off a killer blast here after exchanging a series of phone calls with a number in a locale known to be embedded with Islamistist dedicated to attacking American interests? In that case it would be legitimate to ask why our intel services at NSA ignored the local phone caller. Easy to criticise when we are not charged with the duty of protecting the nation. And why is it an either/or function. Surely, all avenues of gathering pertinent intel should be used.

This court order also okays the gathering of metadata of calls that originate from and stay within the US.

Okay then. I can see where those calls would be useful if a local number has already been identified with a "bad guy." But, what about throw away phones? Aren't they an avenue for avoiding detection? Or am I misinformed on their utility?


Are you okay with having this information in the hands of the US Government; All call metadata, regardless of source, target recipient, or even content (which they can't see according to this)?



vincentML -> RE: Can you hear me now? NSA & Verizon can (6/6/2013 9:03:47 AM)

quote:

Are you okay with having this information in the hands of the US Government; All call metadata, regardless of source, target recipient, or even content (which they can't see according to this)?

Depends on how it is used. Otherwise, what's the harm?



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