RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:00:40 PM)

quote:

It doesn't matter to me whether you think I'm a woman hating jackass.


And yet again you are assuming things not in evidence. If that is what I thought, I would have said so.

quote:

Just as I am sure that it wouldn't matter to you in the least in entirely hypothetical and unlikely situation that I thought you were a hysterical, swivel-eyed madwag who was too hysterical and touchy to conduct any kind of rational argument with.

Obviously I don't think that, and even if I did, would never dream in a million years of saying it, as that would be a breach of TOS!


And I really thought better of you than this.

Seems I was wrong yet again.

Im not the one in hysterics here. Yet you cant seem to let go.





njlauren -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:02:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
The precedent this case sets is dangerous. A woman is NEVER required to have sex with a man if she doesn't want to. Ever.

I disagree. Sure, she's not required to have sex but then she IS required to return the money. If she does not it is, in fact, theft. And it is hardly a surprise that deadly force is authorized in Texas for a theft situation.

I'm not going to make this one about feminism and reproductive rights. She's a crook.


You are making a strange assumption: It is not illegal to be an escort.
She was an escort.
It is illegal to exchange money for sex; that is prostitution.

He may have expected sex, she was not required to give that, and she did not have to return the money, if she was merely his escort.



When a person hires a legitimate escort it is almost always because they have an event to go to, and they do not want to go alone. I sincerely doubt that this gentleman hired this woman to come to his home to sit and chat about the weather for 20-30 minutes. If she accepted his offer of $150 for a half hour of her time, that was definitely NOT enough time to go to any event. There is little doubt in my mind that she was there as a prostitute. The money she accepted was for sex. She took the money. She did not comply with her end of the bargain, whether the bargain was stated or implied. Therefore she was a thief.

Apparently, according to Texas law he was within the law to act as he did.

For the record, I don’t agree with the law, nor with what he did, but due to the law as it stands it seems to me to have been the right verdict.

There are things to think about here:

1)It was an illegal transaction. If you agree to sell me something, don't come through with it, and the cops come, they will give me back my money if they determine I was ripped off. If I paid you for drugs, and the cops showed up, that money would be forfeit, because it was an illegal transaction. Besides the fact that typical of law enforcement, they didn't charge the guy with soliciting prostitution, he had no claim to that money.

2)In transactions, like not providing a service paid for, it is not considered theft of property, it is covered by different statutes, for a very good reason.

This law was mean when physical theft was going to happen, for example, if someone went to pick your pocket, it would be theft of property, or if they tried to steal your car, and that is what these laws are about, not a financial transaction gone bad. It is poor law anyway, because you could end up with someone shooting the other person because they had a dispute, and the person claiming he was ripped off made a mistake. For example, you send me money, I send you the object you are buying, it gets delayed in the mail, you decide I ripped you off, you come to me, tell me you want the item or your money back, and decide to pull a gun and kill me, I don't think the law show say that is theft, it is basically license to use a gun to settle any disputes, something we supposedly left back in the wild west.




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:06:41 PM)

Whats really sad?

This will forever be the man who is known as "the man who paid for a hooker.. and still couldnt get laid."




njlauren -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:07:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

He was on trial because he gave the woman 150 bucks and she wouldn't put out for sex, which is not theft of property. If she attempted to pick his pocket, it would be theft of property, not coming through with an agreed upon transaction is fraud, it is a very different type of crime. Not to mention, of course, that what he was doing was illegal, which means he has no right to claim his property was stolen, given that the transaction he was doing was illegal.


The defense doesn't deny Gilbert shot and killed Frago. It argued instead that the shooting was justified because Frago and Perkins were attempting to take his $150. Therefore, he was just trying to defend his property.



if I hand you 150 for a dvd player and you leave with both against my protests that is theft in this country.

so you are saying that the defense was pure bullshit and she gave him the 150 dollars back?



No, I am saying that with the example you gave before, once you paid 150 bucks for that dvd player, it became yours, and by not giving it to you, it is theft. With a service, whether it is sex or fixing your car, there is no theft of property involved, it is fraud, which is a different crime. In your example, the theft isn't the 150 bucks, it is the dvd player that now belongs to you walking away, it is physical property. In the example, she refused a service but kept the money, which is fraud, and is not covered by the law. More importantly, said transaction was illegal, there is no theft or fraud because both parties were committing an illegal act, so the theft law should not have been invoked at all, and either the prosecutors were boneheads, or the jury was a bunch of Texas yahoos who couldn't understand the difference.




Edwynn -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:15:24 PM)


What matters is that things of actual relevance go unnoticed and unobserved, such as financial regulation, etc.

You gotta prove your 'political manhood/womanhood,' here.

That's all that matters.

Push those buttons, get out there, man!








crazyml -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:18:00 PM)

I am really content to let others read my posts, and yours, and come to their own conclusions.




JeffBC -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:26:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
I am really content to let others read my posts, and yours, and come to their own conclusions.

In my opinion you ought to be.




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:26:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I am really content to let others read my posts, and yours, and come to their own conclusions.


Apparently not since you keep coming at me.

Allow me to reiterate what I said before and was deleted....

Never once have I posted what he expected.

Never once have I given a flying fuck what he expected.

Expectations, as we see often in the lifestyle, can ruin a very, very good time. They can also fuck up your world.

So when you call me disingenuous for saying his expectations were wrong, or that I am neither stupid, or naive to believe he didnt expect anything.... especially since I never once addressed his expectations....

You are once again assuming things I never said, I never implied, and are not in evidence.

So, now you can flounce off if you wish. You have wasted enough of my time.




thursdays -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:27:03 PM)

ED - ARGH!




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:27:35 PM)

How many nics do you have?




thursdays -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:28:42 PM)

As I've explained a few times, I have a dating nick and a forum nick. And am particularly bad at remembering to use the correct one.

If you look at thursdays posting history you will see....




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:30:46 PM)

Oh ffs...




crazyml -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:31:27 PM)

I am really content to let others read my posts, and yours, and come to their own conclusions.



There now, with apologies for my inability to use alt and tab.




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 4:33:25 PM)

Sweetcheeks... you dont get it. I dont give a damn if every member of CM comes in here and declares you are in the right.

I simply dont give a fuck.

This isnt the first time you have pulled this bullshit.. and it definitely wont be the last... but it will be the last time I have to deal with it.




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 5:15:05 PM)

An interesting article... NOT written by a woman.

In my home state of Texas, a man named Ezekiel Gilbert decided on Christmas Eve in 2009 that he was feeling randy. He checked Craigslist, found a listing for an escort, and—believing the service included sex—arranged for a meeting. The escort, 23-year-old Lenora Ivie Frago, showed up, and Gilbert paid her $150 for half an hour of time. Then, once the paid-for time had passed, Frago got up to leave. Gilbert was outraged: he had paid money! He thought the price included for-hire sex! He wanted his illegal sex!

Frago went outside where her driver, Christopher Perkins, was waiting. Gilbert came out and confronted Perkins, who told the enraged man that he had hired Frago for 30 minutes of her time, not sex, and that was what he had received. Perkins drove away, when suddenly Frago screamed, “He’s got a gun!”

Gilbert fired at the car four times. A bullet struck Frago at the base of the skull, paralyzing her. Months later, she died as the result of the shooting. Gilbert was charged with murder. He admitted that the basic facts I just recounted were true.

..........

This—of course—is about Texas laws on guns. We’re getting to the point in this state where maiming or killing anyone can be justified as legal so long as a gun is involved. Under this unbelievably expansive statute, someone can use deadly force “to prevent the other’s imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime.”

Read those words carefully. Under Texas law, if I see some kid getting ready to spray-paint his name on an underpass after dark, I can kill him. Criminal mischief at night can be a Class C misdemeanor involving less than $50 in damages, but in Texas, it effectively carries the death penalty. (Unless—and I can say this for damn sure—the youngster is a wealthy white boy. Then the murder charges will come raining down.) The enraged shooter can also kill anyone fleeing with a piece of property that isn’t his.

Still, Gilbert’s case seems ridiculous. Essentially, he is claiming that he is able to compel the commission of a crime—prostitution—if he simply believed he was paying for sex, or demand his money back for the service he was promised and did receive. (On the other hand, the cops testified in the case that Gilbert never suggested he was stopping a theft of his money.)

Think of the possibilities. A guy buys some pot from a drug dealer, but it turns out to be oregano. If the drug dealer attempts to drive away—at night, of course—the purchaser can kill him. Or suppose someone buys something for what is advertised as the best price in town, later finds a lower one, goes back to the store manager, demands his money back, and is refused. Can the buyer then legally shoot the manager as he heads home that night? I don’t see why not—at least that transaction involved a dispute about a legal transaction, rather than the crime Gilbert wanted performed.

What about if someone suspects a person at a store is shoplifting, and the potential thief gets in a car to drive away? Can the suspicious witness shoot? (That was a trick question: that exact scenario just played out in Alabama. For pure horror, take a look at the informal online poll by a local news station, WSFA. Some 42 percent of the respondents believe that an armed civilian has the right to shoot someone if they only think the other person may have committed a crime.)

It’s insane. Look, I believe people have the right to own guns. But arguing that deadly force can be used without some rational basis only serves to make this country look dangerous and unhinged. Truthfully, I fear the day that someone shoots someone in my family because he or she decided to interpret the law beyond any level of reason, and then is not punished for it. My home state is getting dangerous, because the standards to exert deadly force have sunk below any level of logic.

But it’s all good for Gilbert. He gets to go home, while the daughter of the woman he killed grows up without a mother. After the killer heard the verdict, he hugged his lawyers and cried. Then he went outside, where he spoke with reporters. There, he thanked God for his acquittal.

Sorry, Ezekiel. The Bible doesn’t say, “Thou shalt not kill unless the escort doesn’t have sex with you.” Jesus didn’t say, “Blessed are the johns of prostitutes.”

No, I don’t think God had much to do with this obscene and absurd outcome. But, really, I do hope you are a religious man, Ezekiel. Because then you know, whatever the verdict, you’re a killer who’s going straight to hell.


http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/05/why-ezekiel-gilbert-s-acquittal-proves-the-lunacy-of-texas-s-gun-laws




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 5:18:50 PM)

And, as far as I can tell, this doesnt negate her family's ability to bring a lawsuit.




Edwynn -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 5:45:38 PM)


Nothing negates the ability of people to be as "stupid as they wanna be," on either end of it.

But, by all means, let's take sides on whichever side of stupid we want to align ourselves with.

This is America, and gott bless us.

As they say on all these websites, and now in these annoying upper corners of current-day college US history books; "What do you think?"




JeffBC -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 5:50:01 PM)

quote:

Read those words carefully. Under Texas law, if I see some kid getting ready to spray-paint his name on an underpass after dark, I can kill him. Criminal mischief at night can be a Class C misdemeanor involving less than $50 in damages, but in Texas, it effectively carries the death penalty. (Unless—and I can say this for damn sure—the youngster is a wealthy white boy. Then the murder charges will come raining down.) The enraged shooter can also kill anyone fleeing with a piece of property that isn’t his.

Where was that guy who was asking about the value of human life. If this is correct then in Texas the answer is not even $50. As I understand this, if someone steals ANYTHING from me their life may be forfeit. So in theory if the guy stole a 25c shoe lace and it is night time then the value of his life is 25 cents.

Can some TX lawyer confirm this? Got any here?




RemoteUser -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 5:54:37 PM)

Almost every post on this topic has involved what a person deserves, or what the law allows.

Let's compromise. I'll put myself in the role of the john for illustrative purposes.

I'm pretending I live in Texas and call up a hooker. She shows up, flirts with me, I pay her and expect more. But hey now! She's walking out, and mah willy is dryer than tarmac in Death Valley.

I grab her arm. Hey now. What's the dealio?

She gives me a smirk and tells me that I paid for her time, her time is valuable; and now she's gotta go, she can't waste any more time.

Oh hell, I'm mad. So mad that...I PULL OUT MY GUN! I cock back the hammer...I aim...

...at her tires, and shoot those four bitches to hell.

On mah way back inside, I call over my shoulder, looks like you'll be losing more than half an hour. Good thing you got that hundred fitty dollar, it should cover the tow truck.

(There is justice in the world, even to be found within the confines of strange laws.)




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 5:55:49 PM)

lol... I like that




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