RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:03:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


Nothing negates the ability of people to be as "stupid as they wanna be," on either end of it.

But, by all means, let's take sides on whichever side of stupid we want to align ourselves with.

This is America, and gott bless us.

As they say on all these websites, and now in these annoying upper corners of current-day college US history books; "What do you think?"

if you are so upset about people posting what they think, discuss and want to believe or disagree with...., maybe you should just walk away from the keyboard and the forum.....because that is basically its reason for being??????
Or you could start your own post on what it is exactly that is eating you right now???
Really you are having a bad time with people not doing anything about being controlled by party, government, or big corporations, Unions, medical health or tornadoes, or wars, or the price of deodorant for cats.
Try to actually make a cogent post???
cos you are gonna bust a blood vessel otherwise




RemoteUser -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:06:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol... I like that


The beauty of being capable of being both quirky and evil, but rarely at the same time, is that people are often unable to distinguish one from the other.

And despite the fact that your ass is giving me the finger, I think you're ok.




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:08:19 PM)

Its giving you the finger?




Real0ne -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:10:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

An interesting article... NOT written by a woman.

In my home state of Texas, a man named Ezekiel Gilbert decided on Christmas Eve in 2009 that he was feeling randy. He checked Craigslist, found a listing for an escort, and—believing the service included sex—arranged for a meeting. The escort, 23-year-old Lenora Ivie Frago, showed up, and Gilbert paid her $150 for half an hour of time. Then, once the paid-for time had passed, Frago got up to leave. Gilbert was outraged: he had paid money! He thought the price included for-hire sex! He wanted his illegal sex!

Frago went outside where her driver, Christopher Perkins, was waiting. Gilbert came out and confronted Perkins, who told the enraged man that he had hired Frago for 30 minutes of her time, not sex, and that was what he had received. Perkins drove away, when suddenly Frago screamed, “He’s got a gun!”

Gilbert fired at the car four times. A bullet struck Frago at the base of the skull, paralyzing her. Months later, she died as the result of the shooting. Gilbert was charged with murder. He admitted that the basic facts I just recounted were true.

..........

This—of course—is about Texas laws on guns. We’re getting to the point in this state where maiming or killing anyone can be justified as legal so long as a gun is involved. Under this unbelievably expansive statute, someone can use deadly force “to prevent the other’s imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime.”

Read those words carefully. Under Texas law, if I see some kid getting ready to spray-paint his name on an underpass after dark, I can kill him. Criminal mischief at night can be a Class C misdemeanor involving less than $50 in damages, but in Texas, it effectively carries the death penalty. (Unless—and I can say this for damn sure—the youngster is a wealthy white boy. Then the murder charges will come raining down.) The enraged shooter can also kill anyone fleeing with a piece of property that isn’t his.

Still, Gilbert’s case seems ridiculous. Essentially, he is claiming that he is able to compel the commission of a crime—prostitution—if he simply believed he was paying for sex, or demand his money back for the service he was promised and did receive. (On the other hand, the cops testified in the case that Gilbert never suggested he was stopping a theft of his money.)

Think of the possibilities. A guy buys some pot from a drug dealer, but it turns out to be oregano. If the drug dealer attempts to drive away—at night, of course—the purchaser can kill him. Or suppose someone buys something for what is advertised as the best price in town, later finds a lower one, goes back to the store manager, demands his money back, and is refused. Can the buyer then legally shoot the manager as he heads home that night? I don’t see why not—at least that transaction involved a dispute about a legal transaction, rather than the crime Gilbert wanted performed.

What about if someone suspects a person at a store is shoplifting, and the potential thief gets in a car to drive away? Can the suspicious witness shoot? (That was a trick question: that exact scenario just played out in Alabama. For pure horror, take a look at the informal online poll by a local news station, WSFA. Some 42 percent of the respondents believe that an armed civilian has the right to shoot someone if they only think the other person may have committed a crime.)

It’s insane. Look, I believe people have the right to own guns. But arguing that deadly force can be used without some rational basis only serves to make this country look dangerous and unhinged. Truthfully, I fear the day that someone shoots someone in my family because he or she decided to interpret the law beyond any level of reason, and then is not punished for it. My home state is getting dangerous, because the standards to exert deadly force have sunk below any level of logic.

But it’s all good for Gilbert. He gets to go home, while the daughter of the woman he killed grows up without a mother. After the killer heard the verdict, he hugged his lawyers and cried. Then he went outside, where he spoke with reporters. There, he thanked God for his acquittal.

Sorry, Ezekiel. The Bible doesn’t say, “Thou shalt not kill unless the escort doesn’t have sex with you.” Jesus didn’t say, “Blessed are the johns of prostitutes.”

No, I don’t think God had much to do with this obscene and absurd outcome. But, really, I do hope you are a religious man, Ezekiel. Because then you know, whatever the verdict, you’re a killer who’s going straight to hell.


http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/05/why-ezekiel-gilbert-s-acquittal-proves-the-lunacy-of-texas-s-gun-laws



so now you want to paint it as services rendered?

what jury would find for the defendant if the services were rendered?

I dont think so.




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:11:16 PM)

I want too? Or does the article?




Real0ne -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:14:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

He was on trial because he gave the woman 150 bucks and she wouldn't put out for sex, which is not theft of property. If she attempted to pick his pocket, it would be theft of property, not coming through with an agreed upon transaction is fraud, it is a very different type of crime. Not to mention, of course, that what he was doing was illegal, which means he has no right to claim his property was stolen, given that the transaction he was doing was illegal.


The defense doesn't deny Gilbert shot and killed Frago. It argued instead that the shooting was justified because Frago and Perkins were attempting to take his $150. Therefore, he was just trying to defend his property.



if I hand you 150 for a dvd player and you leave with both against my protests that is theft in this country.

so you are saying that the defense was pure bullshit and she gave him the 150 dollars back?



No, I am saying that with the example you gave before, once you paid 150 bucks for that dvd player, it became yours, and by not giving it to you, it is theft. With a service, whether it is sex or fixing your car, there is no theft of property involved, it is fraud, which is a different crime. In your example, the theft isn't the 150 bucks, it is the dvd player that now belongs to you walking away, it is physical property. In the example, she refused a service but kept the money, which is fraud, and is not covered by the law. More importantly, said transaction was illegal, there is no theft or fraud because both parties were committing an illegal act, so the theft law should not have been invoked at all, and either the prosecutors were boneheads, or the jury was a bunch of Texas yahoos who couldn't understand the difference.



you got a triple wammi problem however.

her pimp said in court that he was to be paying for her time.

well that is not illegal.

obviously the jury determined that she did not hold up her end of the deal and ran off with the money, hence stealing it.

I cant think of any way you all can paint this to make any other verdict "properly" stick.

no matter how you want to swing it she stole his money, he shot a thief.




Real0ne -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:15:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I want too? Or does the article?


you advocated the article




Lucylastic -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:22:36 PM)

Ive since read, he shot at her from outside the car, my bad..... But she hung around for about 20 minutes, then left, why didnt he stop her before she got outside and into the car? now whats the liklihood, he couldnt get it up, she laughed at him and left?.
his "happy ending" was paying her back.
I so wanna see any of her"testimony" to the cops....




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:24:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I want too? Or does the article?


you advocated the article


I sure did.. and said it was interesting.. and had you asked why, I might have told you [;)]




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:25:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ive since read, he shot at her from outside the car, my bad..... But she hung around for about 20 minutes, then left, why didnt he stop her before she got outside and into the car? now whats the liklihood, he couldnt get it up, she laughed at him and left?.
his "happy ending" was paying her back.
I so wanna see any of her"testimony" to the cops....


Cant find any mention of her talking to the cops.




Real0ne -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:44:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ive since read, he shot at her from outside the car, my bad..... But she hung around for about 20 minutes, then left, why didnt he stop her before she got outside and into the car? now whats the liklihood, he couldnt get it up, she laughed at him and left?.
his "happy ending" was paying her back.
I so wanna see any of her"testimony" to the cops....


so she was not unconscious then

hanging around combing her hair is not delivery of service.

still breach

still stolen property




Lucylastic -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:54:26 PM)

I never suggested she was unconscious, you have no idea except on his say so why she was there, so far, any of her evidence has not been mentioned.
It seems we only have his word on what happened in the apartment
Only on his say
Only on his say
Its all fucked up, no matter what. Or who




RemoteUser -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 6:58:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its giving you the finger?


At least one.





Real0ne -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 7:07:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I never suggested she was unconscious, you have no idea except on his say so why she was there, so far, any of her evidence has not been mentioned.
It seems we only have his word on what happened in the apartment
Only on his say
Only on his say
Its all fucked up, no matter what. Or who



it may have been one of the articles, or possibly someone else.

her pimp said that everything was legal with his "paid" for time statement.

no hay to make there.

seems the jury had little choice.




Edwynn -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 7:08:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


Nothing negates the ability of people to be as "stupid as they wanna be," on either end of it.

But, by all means, let's take sides on whichever side of stupid we want to align ourselves with.

This is America, and gott bless us.

As they say on all these websites, and now in these annoying upper corners of current-day college US history books; "What do you think?"

if you are so upset about people posting what they think, discuss and want to believe or disagree with...., maybe you should just walk away from the keyboard and the forum.....because that is basically its reason for being??????
Or you could start your own post on what it is exactly that is eating you right now???
Really you are having a bad time with people not doing anything about being controlled by party, government, or big corporations, Unions, medical health or tornadoes, or wars, or the price of deodorant for cats.
Try to actually make a cogent post???
cos you are gonna bust a blood vessel otherwise



Looking at your post, I think it's more readily apparent as to who's about to burst a vessel here.

Wow.

I'll just leave you folks alone, then.







Lucylastic -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 7:16:10 PM)

thank you




tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 7:16:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its giving you the finger?


At least one.




lol.. dont they have to be pointing up?




Lucylastic -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 7:17:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I never suggested she was unconscious, you have no idea except on his say so why she was there, so far, any of her evidence has not been mentioned.
It seems we only have his word on what happened in the apartment
Only on his say
Only on his say
Its all fucked up, no matter what. Or who



it may have been one of the articles, or possibly someone else.

her pimp said that everything was legal with his "paid" for time statement.

no hay to make there.

seems the jury had little choice.


of course....[8|]
he had no other choice either[8|]




RemoteUser -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 7:22:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its giving you the finger?


At least one.


lol.. dont they have to be pointing up?


Says something about the angle I'm looking at, doesn't it.





tazzygirl -> RE: A court in TX just exonerated a man who shot and killed a woman who had refused to have sex with him (6/8/2013 7:24:27 PM)

You arent supposed to hang upside down!




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