RE: But I made a commitment??? (Full Version)

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enigmabrat -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 1:35:14 PM)

Honest;y the "I made a commitment" excuse is mearly that a cop out because getting out of a relationship is hard work!! honestly if she isnt happy she shouldnt stay with him just like if she was married and things went back you get a devorse!!



ClassAct2006 -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 1:37:01 PM)

Depends how bad it is. A commitment for me would be marriage and I committed to that for nearly 20 years even when it wasn't at all easy. Sometimes thing just get unbearable and only the people concerned can decide what matters and what doesn't. I wonder why his views didn't come out? On my very first date with one man we spent the first 20 minutes talking about human rights law and another one we didn't meet because of differences of some other political views. People should explore all those things very carefully before they get involved and decide what is important and what isn't.



zenofeller -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 1:48:17 PM)

interesting, class' post reminds me of something that's usually neglected. it's so easy to make it difficult, nearly impossible for people to "put on a mask" in the early stages of romancing. taking a few easy precautions then will save you a huge lot of effort in the long run.

be agressive, is racism a deal breaker for you ? take the prospective to a charged environment and see the reaction. be defensive, don't say anything along the lines of "i could never date a guy that would do x". what good comes of that ? if he wasn't going to do x, that's not going to change based on your statement. but if he was, now he got a chance to do it in secret.

all in all, it's better to have very high entry barriers and virtually 0 failure rate than low entry barriers and an ever raging uphill battle to select people. you won't be as popular, you won't be spending as much time with idiots, and you won't be as unhappy. and you won't have to look at the burning pile that is your life and start over every decade.

now mist, there really can't be a draw. give me a scenario that would be a draw, maybe it helps settle the point.



Mercnbeth -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 1:49:18 PM)

quote:

mistoferin

I have a friend who accepted a collar from the "Dominant of her dreams" only to find out that he is seriously lacking as a human being. In their courtship he was "all she had ever hoped for". ...now and his "true colors" are in full show. she is utterly embarrassed to go anywhere in public with him. He is a snob who treats everyone as though they are but shit on his shoes. He is a racist and constantly makes racist remarks. He treats service people rudely.

I have seen many times, both in real life and on here, where a submissive is clearly unhappy with "who" their Dominant is...and yet they stay because "they made a commitment". My question is just exactly at what point would your "commitment" be negated for you?


For the sake of space I cut some from the original post.

erin,
beth and I disagreed on this subject. she was of the "a commitment is a commitment regardless of the situation" side of the argument. I was of the opinion the "Dom" abdicated his position by falsely representing himself during the courtship. Unless caused by some undiagnosed brain tumor, a person's interaction with people doesn't change that dramatically over time. If this was an on-line 'relationship' which had some intermittent physical contact evolving into a full time, real time relationship, missing the clues can happen. You can't replace time together in all types of situations as a item necessary to determine long term behavior.

Regarding the general question, to me it's a one sided commitment. But beth says that the "better or worse" concept should be considered. We spent some time this morning with me trying to come up with "worse" case that would initiate beth giving up to her commitment and I couldn't come up with one. Knowing the details of her past personal relationships I believe her. It's one, of many, of the reasons I am honored to call her my slave.

However, I still believe that a BDSM relationship can not be so one sided. Confining her to the dirt crawl space in our dungeon for a month SHOULD be reason for her to leave, even if all of a sudden I thought it her proper place. As in reference to "tests" concerning limits, I'm not interested in "testing" her commitment in such a manner. I'll chose to believe her.

Maybe that's the key to your question. When the decision to commit to a relationship is made, you chose to believe that person is as he/she represents themselves in the time you've been together. I'm fortunate to have someone who is better than I believed. You friend, unfortunately, is the other side of that coin.

I'll continue to preach time and as the prevention device. People usually aren't good enough 'actors' to play roles for extended periods. Don't commit until doubt is replaced by trust by an overwhelming margin. After the fact, there may not be a solution.



zenofeller -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 2:07:40 PM)

the value of time as prevention is undeniable. if time is available.

why don't you see that being confined to the dirt crawl space for a month may in fact be a great thing for your slave ? i'm not saying it is, i don't know either of you, but in general. someone being asked to run 100 meters in 4 seconds ? it's too much to ask, right ? should be a deal breaker right ?

except if asked of the one person that does break the 100 meter record.



mistoferin -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 2:13:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
now mist, there really can't be a draw. give me a scenario that would be a draw, maybe it helps settle the point.


My girlfriend's situation is one example of a draw. They have discussed it. She has told him how uncomfortable she is with his behavior, especially the racist stuff. She has asked him if he would take her feelings into consideration and tone it down. His answer was that he is not going to change for anyone and if those "N*****s" don't fucking like it...well tough shit. If she don't like it, "don't go out with me" or "there's the door". The situation stands as it was and no change will take place. He will continue to spew his poison and she will continue to wilt in embarassment. That's a draw. She will eventually have to make a decision as to how important it is to her.

A draw from my own experiences. My ex was a sober man when we met. Many years into our relationship he decided he would take up the drinking habits of his early years. Our life suddenly became a whirlwind of police officers, courtrooms, fines, auto repair shops and hospitals. We discussed it. I wanted him to stop drinking. He wanted to continue. We discussed it again....and again. Discussion ended in a draw with neither of us getting anywhere closer to swaying the position of the other. Things were to continue as they were. It was important enough to me that I made a decision at that point. I left.



slavejali -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 2:28:56 PM)

I take commitment pretty seriously. I am an "all or nothing" type person. I think if I was your friend I would be wondering why I was so concerned about what other people think and processing it that way. I would try to take responsibility for worrying about this so much that I got myself in a position of being unhappy in the relationship itself. I would be thinking about the fact that no one is perfect and this rudeness to other people and lack of ability to communicate effectively with outside parties is a lack of skill on his part, which would amount to a weakness. Then I would have to process that, cuz I wouldnt want to feel my Master was weak anyway, so then I would go back to thinking about how no one is perfect and I shouldnt expect my Master to be. If I couldnt process all those thoughts and find some resolution, then I would pay out on myself for being so weak minded myself. I would keep processing and processing it until I found something that worked to kick whatever was going on in me in the ass. I would do this because I was committed to the relationship and because I realise its my perspective that causes me unhappiness, no one elses actions.

In some ways, I think I've forgotten what it was like to be in an abusive relationship (and I'm making no judgement one way or another as to whether this situation you have described is abusive cuz I really don't knw), yet even when I was in one, my attitude was pretty much the same as it is now. I was very aware of my commitment and it took me nearly to die to leave. That sense of commitment, I never want to have it not be part of my personality. I think its a very good attribute of mine, I think the only thing that has changed is I dont attract abuse anymore cause I no longer need it in my life to learn anything from.. To put that another way, I think in some ways, the experiences we need in life are brought to us, so no matter what position we find ourselves, its actually the best place for us to be and we should endeavour to make the best out of the circumstances life affords us and use them to learn and grow and be happy. I think life itself is a process and if we keep cutting short our processes we are gonna end up like a bonsai tree, all stunted, emotionally, mentally and spiritually.



artglfr -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 2:38:16 PM)

I don't know what planet you came from but here We do NOT advocate anyone staying in an abusive ,possibly dangerous situation. Collar or no collar self preservation is the first and primary goal and it is people  like you that write this kind of rant that often do shame people who need help and understanding , into staying in abusive situations.




zenofeller -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 2:47:54 PM)

lets try to argue one then mist, as a sample (out of my imagination)

husband : so what's the problem ?
wife : i have seen more police officers in this past month than in my entire previous life.

h: so what's wrong with that ?
w: nothing, per se. but it stands to reason i will soon be seeing more coffins than in my entire previous life, too.

h: you think ?
w: they go together. alcohol, policemen, coffins.

h: well, seeing how there are more barrels of alcohol than police officers, it occurs to me it;s a matter of degree.
w: so you have a problem with degrees then.

h: i like to drink, not to worry. actually, that's why i like to drink.
w: it doesn't work

h: why not ?
w: because i don't like to worry either, but i don't like to drink.

h: maybe you should start.
w: maybe you should stop.

h: not going to happen.
w: here either.

h: so i guess that's that then.
w: yea. good luck with life.

problem resolved. a draw would not be a position where neither wants to change, that's easily resolved as a split. a draw would be a position where it's not apparent who is in the wrong. feel free to modify the dialogue to get there, altho i don't think it's possible.



KnightofMists -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 2:54:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Do you think that some get so focused on the commitment that they become blind to what they have committed to?

As for hope....as this was brought up more than once on this thread...is it hope that the situation will get better? That if you can endure the storms there will be a rainbow at the end as a reward?


No... I don't believe you can focus on being commited without equally being aware of what motivated you to be commited in the first place.  I believe that some hold onto the warmth of commitment, because they can not see past life without the commitment.  Holding on to the warmth of commitment to me is different than actually focused on commitment.  It is very much the pain to endure is preceived to be less that moving forward outside of ones commitment. For some I wonder thou if the words of commitment and duty is really words of I don't know how to leave.  I would sugget that when they speak of commitment.... ask what are they commitment to?.  I believe sometimes when the words are spoken "because I made a commitment", their truly is no focus on commitment.  But more, I don't know what to do!

I think there is all kinds of rainbows of hope.  For some, it might be just the Hope to find a way to leave the relationship. Sometimes for them (particularly abusive) it's just finding the strength.  Some it's Hope for it to be better.... You name it.. Hope comes in all sorts of thoughts.




bandit25 -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 2:58:26 PM)

I guess everyone has their own personal dealbreakers...things that say the commitment is over.  Prolly the main one for me is dishonesty.  I'm not even sure why people are dishonest...it's an awful lot of work to have to remember which lie you told to whom.  Someone else mentioned respect and, after thinking about that, I'd have to agree with that also. 

I agree that a commitment is a commitment and I admire someone for trying to stick it out and make it work but a relationship takes two people and, yes, I think both must have their needs fulfilled.  If that isn't happening, I don't see much future for it.



Chaingang -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 2:59:34 PM)

There's no meeting of the minds where one party misrepresented themselves. If he was on his best behavior before and now he's a total ass, that's deception on his part. The only commitments you have to honor where the other party lied to you is with the military - otherwise people are free to move on as the need arises.



slavejali -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 3:08:02 PM)

I was thinking about deal breakers in regards to commitment, probably mine would be infidelity. That would mean to me that I was no longer wanted so it wouldnt be my commitment that was broken, it would be a choice my partner made to no longer be with me, he would no longer be committed to me, so the relationship itself would be over.



agirl -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 3:08:59 PM)

Hello mistoferin,

The dominant doesn't sound (from your description) like the type of person your girlfriend would choose as a friend, let alone a Master.

To keep a committment of the type she has, there must be respect for the man he is. It appears she does not have that. How awful to be shackled to someone who's behaviour and outlook is so entirely repugnant to her.

She isn't committed to the man she is with ......... she is committed to the man she thought he was and hoped he was.

Regards, agirl










realmanfordomme -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 3:15:18 PM)

honey, i get the feeling 99% of the members here are seriously lacking as human beings....  just as in any relationship.. if she is not happy  she  should leave asap... like the song says ... there must be fifty ways to leave your lover....just hop on the bus gus... no need to discus much...just listen to me... skip out the back jack... make a new plan stan... no need to be coy  roy .... just get yourself free..........joe



zenofeller -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 3:23:35 PM)

it saddens me to break the news to all you easy goers out there that if people split the moment they aren't happy... well... uhhh...

i dunno, i guess civilisation as a whole would just crumble and we'd be back to eating each other's lice.



genvieve -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 3:28:26 PM)

i've found myself in a similar situation exactly once.  Simply put, His Dominance suited me to a tee... His ethics did not.  i struggled pretty hard with this concept and this is the conclusion that i came to:
 
Since D/s is a lifestyle, not just a kink to me and the Master/Mistress and slave/submissive relationship is above all else romantic, it is definately important the "kind" of person your partner is.  my only question would be, how do you allow yourself to get in that situation to begin with?  How is it possible that we've committed to submitting to someone that we don't really know?
 
i know what the answer was for me.  i can't give the answer for your friend.
 
However, she is in the situation now.  Unfortunately, my opinion is that she needs to get out.  A submissive needs to believe that she is submitting to a good person.  Otherwise, she's simply giving herself to a cause she might not agree with.  It's like a pro lifer giving funds to an abortion clinic.  It just doesn't make sense.
 
Best of luck to your friend.
 
-genvieve



catize -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 4:34:16 PM)

quote:

 They have discussed it. She has told him how uncomfortable she is with his behavior, especially the racist stuff. She has asked him if he would take her feelings into consideration and tone it down. His answer was that he is not going to change for anyone  If she don't like it, "don't go out with me" or "there's the door".  


Here is where it would be a deal breaker for me.  Obviously, he DID change his behaviors briefly in the beginning of the relationship because he knew they would be unacceptable to her. Therefore, he is a liar.  If my committment is based on lies then there is no committment to honor.  To be a submissive does not mean one needs to be a martyr. 
Many people stay in a relationship because they hope the other person will change; that seldom happens.  We can only change ourselves. 



cillydom -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 6:33:48 PM)

To my way of thinking it’s the relationship to which we commit. Relationships naturally evolve but if one partner in the relationship alters the terms of the relationship drastically with no input from the other then they have violated the relationship and it is no longer what you committed to. So in essence you are free to leave. If on the other hand the other person keeps faith with the relationship as it was understood to be, then your commitment should mean something unless you are released.



feastie -> RE: But I made a commitment??? (6/26/2006 7:43:11 PM)

Merc, I agree with you, (sorry beth).  The man misrepresented himself, effectively voiding their agreement. 

But you know what the biggest problem is with women that won't leave, I think?  Same thing I struggled with for years...I didn't want to be a failure.  Once I figured out that I was not the one who had failed, it made my decision much easier.



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