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RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 5:02:38 PM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: fun2playwith88
Just wondering how many people on here would be open to marrying their submissive partner.

No. I'd still want a life-long committed relationship but the legal landscape for marriage has just become way too hostile towards men. I would never marry again (under US law anyway). I'd have to do some research now that I live in Canada.

I wish my answer was different since I'm a marriage guy. But honestly it's just an insane legal risk for no reason.


The legal landscape is hostile not so much to men, but to people who work. In marriages with a working woman/non-working man, she is just as SOL as a man would be (in California). Since I work I would be very reluctant to marry. Even if your spouse is working at the outset of marriage, if he/she stops voluntarily or by circumstance, the working partner is screwed.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 5:31:44 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
The legal landscape is hostile not so much to men, but to people who work. In marriages with a working woman/non-working man, she is just as SOL as a man would be (in California). Since I work I would be very reluctant to marry. Even if your spouse is working at the outset of marriage, if he/she stops voluntarily or by circumstance, the working partner is screwed.

Uh huh. How shall I put this delicately? That does not match my experience in California. It sure as hell doesn't match the just recent acquaintance's experience in TX. Did you know that a man is automatically a child abuser if the woman says so? OK, perhaps not in a criminal sense... but enough to have zero custody and be required to make payments and have no visitation rights simply on her accusation. No investigation was ever done. What's there to investigate? We all know that women only lie about abuse 2% of the time, right? Oh, and when it came out that she had lied nobody felt any need to ... you know... throw her in jail. In point of fact nobody even felt the need to reverse the judgement based on the claim of child abuse. So I'm afraid you're going to need to work prety hard to sell me on legal equality in family law.

The good news is that Canada is so much more sane about so much family law than the US that I think there's a pretty good chance that getting married in Canada is not a fool's move. The even better news is that I have Carol and I really hope it stays that way.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)
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RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 5:33:48 PM   
HisPet21


Posts: 395
Status: offline 		We've talked about it and thus far, we're both pretty keen on the idea of getting married someday. I feel he's absolutely perfect for me and he feels the same way. Since we're both monogamous and a little on the traditional side, marriage is an end goal for us both. That being said, I understand how much divorce sucks and if he asked me to marry him today, the answer would be no, simply because I feel I haven't finished "test driving" our relationship yet. We just moved in together a month ago, after four and a half years of dating, and I want to see how that works out. Because once I am married, I've decided that--unless a total 180 happens and he is beating the sh*t out of me everyday--I am staying. I have no desire do to my future husband and kids what my parents did to my sister and I, and to each other, when they got a divorce.

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RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 5:37:02 PM   
HisPet21


Posts: 395
Status: offline
quote:

Did you know that a man is automatically a child abuser if the woman says so?


Sad, but this matches my experience also. My dad was almost flat out refused visitation rights on some bogus charges, and only after I was interrogated mercilessly by cops and lawyers, insisting otherwise, was it taken off the table. Not fun for a ten year old, btw. Family law over here is pretty screwed up.

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RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 5:42:23 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		On the other hand, Jeff, if a man in America has children without the benefit of marriage, his childrens' mother pretty much decides if he gets visitation. child support does not buy visitation, and with no marriage, the woman has way too much power in that scenario. I've told my boys that, due to the legal climate against men in this country, they should marry if they want children.

_____________________________

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RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 5:44:41 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske
On the other hand, Jeff, if a man in America has children without the benefit of marriage, his childrens' mother pretty much decides if he gets visitation. child support does not buy visitation, and with no marriage, the woman has way too much power in that scenario. I've told my boys that, due to the legal climate against men in this country, they should marry if they want children.

ROFL... damned if you do and damned if you don't. I hadn't thought of that since I'm past "wanting a child" age.

I like my answer... "move to a more sane country". Too bad that's not really an available option for most people.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 5:54:54 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I would love to get married again someday. I see it as the ultimate form of submission.


I see it the same, lw.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 5:57:04 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: fun2playwith88
Just wondering how many people on here would be open to marrying their submissive partner.

No. I'd still want a life-long committed relationship but the legal landscape for marriage has just become way too hostile towards men. I would never marry again (under US law anyway). I'd have to do some research now that I live in Canada.

I wish my answer was different since I'm a marriage guy. But honestly it's just an insane legal risk for no reason.



That's interesting, Jeff. During my divorce I was the one who was financially screwed. And I mean really screwed!

I think it has more to do with the main income rather than gender.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 5:57:20 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I am not interested in being married again. Well, actually, I left my husband 16 years ago and never looked back; but never divorced him either.
Technically, I'm still legally married and after 16 years it is looking like the 'till death do you legally part' is a likely scenario.

Soooo, IF I ever get around to getting divorced and IF I ever have a submissive. No. But, not because my partner was submissive.

I just don't see any real need to be married again.

Unless it was really important to someone I cared deeply about, then I'd reconsider.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 6:01:07 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
That's interesting, Jeff. During my divorce I was the one who was financially screwed. And I mean really screwed! I think it has more to do with the main income rather than gender.

California has some laws that apply equally based on numbers alone. There's even a spreadsheet. There is no entry field for "gender". So in theory the numbers are gender-blind. You could have saved yourself a lot of money had you claimed abuse though.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 6:04:56 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		California is a no fault state. Any claim would not have mattered. There's a calculation based on income and number of years marred. That's it. I lost my ass.

< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 6/9/2013 6:16:11 PM >

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 6:16:56 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
California is a no fault state. Any claim would not have mattered. There's a calculation based on income and number if years marred. That's it. I lost my ass.

Yeah, me too on the financials.. particularly interesting in light of how the children got there to start with. But honestly I understood the reasoning behind the formulas and they made sense. It's just that I had more honor than the woman I married so I paid the price for that.

I have to admit I find it hard to believe that accusations of things like "rape" and "child abuse" would not have changed anything... for instance.. .by putting him in prison. But perhaps that's so in California and if so YAY for them. I know for a fact it is not true in Texas.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 6:21:40 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Nope. California doesn't care about those claims as they relate to divorce. No kids here but abuse claims were irrelevant. He was smart and threatened mental incompetence. Couldn't stand divorce trial. Ca-Ching for NV lol.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 6:21:46 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: fun2playwith88
Just wondering how many people on here would be open to marrying their submissive partner.

No. I'd still want a life-long committed relationship but the legal landscape for marriage has just become way too hostile towards men. I would never marry again (under US law anyway). I'd have to do some research now that I live in Canada.

I wish my answer was different since I'm a marriage guy. But honestly it's just an insane legal risk for no reason.


The legal landscape is hostile not so much to men, but to people who work. In marriages with a working woman/non-working man, she is just as SOL as a man would be (in California). Since I work I would be very reluctant to marry. Even if your spouse is working at the outset of marriage, if he/she stops voluntarily or by circumstance, the working partner is screwed.



Right... because how dare my spouse think he's an equal partner in the marriage if he does not earn a paycheck?

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 6:26:47 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Barona, he refused to work and that was the source of a lot of contention between us. Then he got $1500/month spousal support due to the "precedent" set in our marriage. I was only a little miffed lol.

I agree that the one who works gets screwed, particularly if the lopsidedness was not by choice.

I'd marry again though. I'd just do it differently.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 6:29:36 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Barona, he refused to work and that was the source of a lot of contention between us. Then he got $1500/month spousal support due to the "precedent" set in our marriage. I was only a little miffed lol.

I agree that the one who works gets screwed, particularly if the lopsidedness was not by choice.

I'd marry again though. I'd just do it differently.



No legal system can correct the mistake of marrying the wrong person.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 6:31:00 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I agree. But it shouldn't further penalize either.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 6:37:10 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline 		What can I say? Marriage is marriage. It's a big deal. It's a life commitment. The court does what it can to effect justice when people realize they fucked up. This is one of those situations where people should take personal responsibility instead of claiming the system screwed them.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 7:10:11 PM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: fun2playwith88
Just wondering how many people on here would be open to marrying their submissive partner.

No. I'd still want a life-long committed relationship but the legal landscape for marriage has just become way too hostile towards men. I would never marry again (under US law anyway). I'd have to do some research now that I live in Canada.

I wish my answer was different since I'm a marriage guy. But honestly it's just an insane legal risk for no reason.



That's interesting, Jeff. During my divorce I was the one who was financially screwed. And I mean really screwed!

I think it has more to do with the main income rather than gender.


It does. My answer to Jeff assumed he was talking about financial issues. The person with the main income in California is screwed in divorce regardless of gender. However, Jeff's example was about custody. That is a different ball game; it is not gender neutral, and is more idiosyncratic based on the judge you happen to get assigned to.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Would you be open to marrying your submissive half? - 6/9/2013 7:16:54 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		What really sucks is I have military benefits from my husband's death and now if I remarry then I lose absolutely everything. But once I turn age 57 I can remarry and still keep my benefits. I have about 15 more years to go though.

So looks like I'm not getting married anytime soon. If I did get married and got divorced, I wouldn't be worried about losing anything especially if it was to Master. He's pretty old fashioned in the belief of being able to afford to pay for a wife before he'd take on that responsibility and I wouldn't lose my benefits to him at all. For me there just would be nothing to lose and there really would be nothing he would lose because if I left the marriage I would leave with what I came in with and nothing more. I see no reason for anything else.

But the likelihood of me divorcing is extremely small. I believe in doing everything possible to save a marriage before having to divorce and I mean absolutely everything. The very thought of divorce is something that I could never imagine for me in a relationship.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 40
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