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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 3:19:32 AM

garyFLR

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Yes, there has to be the initial spark of attraction, & sharing of mutual interests before D/s BDSM rears its head, surely?

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 11:09:26 AM

LafayetteLady

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First, the replies here are one of the reasons I say most people really shouldn't be reading "self help" advice types of books.

"He's Just Not That Into You," was written FOR WOMEN, so no, there aren't going to be comments about what women do to me. It was also meant to be blunt, and often a bit tongue in cheek. Yet, look at all the replies taking it like it is a strict "rules" and guidelines for decoding men.

Once two people establish a relationship, none of this stuff would even apply. It is about the beginning stages of a relationship, nothing more, nothing less. An attempt to answer all the ridiculous questions so many women tend to be asking their friends after what they believe is a great first date. "Does he like me?" "Will he want to see me again?" blah blah blah.

If you go on a date with a guy, and think it is ok for a few weeks to go by without him calling you, then you are ok with him not really being all that interested in you. This isn't about excusing such behavior with valid things, like he is in the military. As Red said, there simply is never a time that someone doesn't have 2 minutes (she said ten) to zip off a simple email, text, phone call to someone if they really want to develop a relationship.

This also doesn't apply to people looking for the casual fuck buddy AT ALL, yet look how many people want to defend how it doesn't apply if that is what both people are looking for. No shit! It isn't meant about the casual fuck, it is talking about developing long term relationships.

All of which is irrelevant to tazzy's question: Yes, the rules of dating AT THE BEGINNING OF A RELATIONSHIP apply equally to vanilla and BDSM lifestyle relationships.

tazzy, even your example of for you it being "different," really isn't. I could see someone complete vanilla wanting the exact same thing. Although after a 20 minute first meet over coffee, it might be a bit of an extreme expectation/need, I took it to mean once a decision was made to keep going and hoping something developed.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 11:20:24 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

tazzy, even your example of for you it being "different," really isn't. I could see someone complete vanilla wanting the exact same thing. Although after a 20 minute first meet over coffee, it might be a bit of an extreme expectation/need, I took it to mean once a decision was made to keep going and hoping something developed.

LOL I have met vanilla men for "coffee" and while they may have been hopeful it would lead to sex on that first date, very few expected it.

I have met lifestyle men for "coffee" and many "expected" it like it was a natural progression. Yeah, I pissedd off quite a few.

I think every person has their own set of rules or boundaries.. or even "triggers" that they look for in the behavior of someone when a relationship is new. I dont agree with a certain "set" of rules.. except the one's that work for "you".

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 2:16:36 PM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
If he really is too busy to call and say he misses you, then he's too busy to have a relationship with you.

Oh, I totally agree.. and that's exactly what I told my woman on the side. So does that make me an asshole?

edited to respond to kaliko's post above
I'm assuming here we are not talking childish antics like "3 hours". I was assuming "too busy" in some sort of reasonable bigger picture. Man, if some woman was on me about one baseball game (not a repeat thing) I'd be thinking "psycho stalker chick". I'm pretty sure Des is referring to more significant too busy's.

Actually, being honest and saying you're too busy to enter into a relationship is the opposite of being an asshole.

You told her what you were available for and allowed her to decide if being an occasionally fuck buddy fit her needs or not.

And no, watching one game one time does not mean anything. But if he's home in front of the tv every night while not thinking it's important to ever talk to you, then I don't think you've got much chance of having a happy relationship. Remember, this is the honeymoon period of a relationship. It isn't going to get better suddenly once he's been ignoring you for three years.

If somebody really wants to have a relationship, they'll do their best to make it happen. When you don't merit their best, or even their half assed attempts, that says something about how they feel about you.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 2:28:59 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
You told her what you were available for and allowed her to decide if being an occasionally fuck buddy fit her needs or not.

Just a correction lest anyone get the wrong idea. We are discussing an online "relationship" wherein I was attempting to help a socially submissive woman far away from me with some severe agoraphobia. There was no "fuck buddy" going on here nor was there any role play, BDSM, or sex. There was just me bossing around this other woman with the intent to help her enough to at least get her to a local shrink.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 6:32:36 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

From a thread in the "Ask a Master" section, I picked up my copy of the following book.

"He's just not that into you" by Greg Behrendt

Well worth the money... there is even a movie out. But the book is far better.

My own copy is a bit worn. To be honest, its my second copy. I gave the first to a girl friend's teenage daughter.

So I decided to poke around on line and I found a site with a bunch of quotes from the book. I could have pulled them myself, but, hey, what the hell, its a lazy Sunday.

“Busy' is another word for 'asshole'. 'Asshole' is another word for the guy you're dating.”

Some men are enourmously busy......don't sue us. I have one fabulous woman I've spoken to, equally busy, equally successful in life. She understands. I would, however agree....busy is often code for...."no thanks".

(It's not you....it's him:) ).

“I’m about to make a wild, extreme, and severe relationship rule: THE WORD "BUSY" IS A LOAD OF CRAP AND IS MOST OFTEN USED BY ASSHOLES. The word “busy” is the relationship Weapon of Mass Destruction. Remember: Men are never too busy to get what they want.”

Of course they're not but....busy is often also the code word for "Busy"...nothing more.

“The word “busy” is the relationship Weapon of Mass Destruction. It seems like a good excuse, but in fact, in every silo you uncover, all you’re going to find is a man who didn’t care enough to call. Remember: Men are never too busy to get what they want.”

Fallacy....some men actually are focused on business....wanna make a name....you're cute...maybe even hot. Wanna fly with a guy in a Saturn 5 rocket? Strap up and get ready for a few G's. (and don't argue when you don't get steak when you "THINK you've earned said solely because you believe your door should have been opened".

(Goes both ways girls)

“Here's something else to think about: calling when you say you're going to is the very first brick in the house you are building of love and trust. If he can't lay this one stupid brick down, you ain't never gonna have a house baby, and it's cold outside.”

“A man who wants to make a relationship work will move mountains to keep the woman he loves”

For the right woman.

“Don’t spend your time on and give your heart to any guy who makes you wonder about anything related to his feelings for you”

How about wondering what his feelings are....what he's aiming for? Maybe he's actually building it for you!

“We (men) would rather lose an arm out a city bus window than tell you simply, “You’re not the one.” We are quite sure you will kill us or yourself or both—or even worse, cry and yell at us.”

“Don't you want the guy who'll forget about all the other things in his life before he forgets about you?”

“If you can find him, then he can find you. If he wants to find you, he will.” And you could as well

“And above all, if the guy you’re dating doesn’t seem to be completely into you, or you feel the need to start “figuring him out,” please consider the glorious thought that he might just not be that into you. And then free yourself to go find the one that is.”

http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/822184-he-s-just-not-that-into-you-the-no-excuses-truth-to-understanding-guys?page=2

So, my question... for EVERYBODY (cus I dont believe in saying someone cant respond to a post)... do the rules of dating apply to lifestyle relationships?

Yes.

Feel free to respond to all, none, or include your own.

Men! Speak up!

(I believe I just did).

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 6/10/2013 6:36:29 PM >

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 6:44:51 PM

tazzygirl

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lol... ok.. I think I got your posts out of that jumbled mess. Anyways, you do realize thats all from a man's perspective in a book, and not my own, yes?

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 6:46:00 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

tazzy, even your example of for you it being "different," really isn't. I could see someone complete vanilla wanting the exact same thing. Although after a 20 minute first meet over coffee, it might be a bit of an extreme expectation/need, I took it to mean once a decision was made to keep going and hoping something developed.

LOL I have met vanilla men for "coffee" and while they may have been hopeful it would lead to sex on that first date, very few expected it.

I have met lifestyle men for "coffee" and many "expected" it like it was a natural progression. Yeah, I pissedd off quite a few.

I think every person has their own set of rules or boundaries.. or even "triggers" that they look for in the behavior of someone when a relationship is new. I dont agree with a certain "set" of rules.. except the one's that work for "you".

Every single man...vanilla or bdsm, expected sex on the first date. There was absolutely no difference for me. Master was the only man who never expected it and refused to have sex for the first few dates we went on.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 6:54:53 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

“Here's something else to think about: calling when you say you're going to is the very first brick in the house you are building of love and trust. If he can't lay this one stupid brick down, you ain't never gonna have a house baby, and it's cold outside.”

Amen

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 6:55:59 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsEloquence

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If he really is too busy to call and say he misses you, then he's too busy to have a relationship with you. If he has three hours to watch baseball at night, he has ten minutes to call and chat.

Yes, and I'd add that (local) people too busy to meet are also too busy for a relationship.

Yes, yes, and yes.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 10:04:44 PM

SatinWhip

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I do agree that if a guy wants to be with you he will find a way to make that happen. He won't do stupid shit like playing hard to get. You know, the stuff women do. Having said that - anyone that writes an entire book on the subject has way too much time on their hands.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/10/2013 11:34:15 PM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

........ My ex would tell me "I knew you would be waiting. Its good for you to wait."

That kinda thing.

Why in the world is he your EX?

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/11/2013 7:08:34 AM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
You told her what you were available for and allowed her to decide if being an occasionally fuck buddy fit her needs or not.

Just a correction lest anyone get the wrong idea. We are discussing an online "relationship" wherein I was attempting to help a socially submissive woman far away from me with some severe agoraphobia. There was no "fuck buddy" going on here nor was there any role play, BDSM, or sex. There was just me bossing around this other woman with the intent to help her enough to at least get her to a local shrink.

"Bossing around" a severe agoraphobic is ridiculous. Unless you are a trained therapist, you shouldn't be doing anything like that. For the record, bossing her around is not going to help her get out of the house.

Also for the record, therapists trained to work with agoraphobics go to them because of those issues.

Once again, being dominant doesn't equate to being someone's psychologist, and this is a prime example of not really having any idea what you are doing.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/11/2013 7:10:07 AM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SatinWhip

I do agree that if a guy wants to be with you he will find a way to make that happen. He won't do stupid shit like playing hard to get. You know, the stuff women do. Having said that - anyone that writes an entire book on the subject has way too much time on their hands.

Yet, that book was a best seller. So all that time on their hands made them tons of money, and included a movie deal.

If people wouldn't buy books like that and if some people didn't need books like that to attempt to teach them common sense, they wouldn't be written.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/11/2013 9:39:44 AM

chatterbox24

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Rules, rules, rules. They can give a basic generic outline, every scenario is different. THe saying " don't play with fire, you might get burnt" is true, but if your cold and don't play with it, you might freeze to death too. " nothing ventured, nothng gained" is also true, but you have to have some common sense. In relationships we tend to toss it right out the window at times. NOt all rules apply.

A lot of those rules apply to generic human beings too, everyday people. The social norm as to what is expected in most of those rule books. Some people just not prepared for a full term committed relationship, and they might even care about you, but if they have demanding jobs that require a tremendous amount of dedication, travel to remote areas, its not possible to give tons of attention even if they are "into you" Its also a matter of how important they are to you, whether you can deal with less attention, or want too. Sometimes its good to adjust ourselves. Its just not possible to always be someones one and only. Life tends to get in the way.

If you find yourself always the one to contact someone, that's a real indicator they just aren't that into you. If they do contact you, but it isn't as much as you like, doesn't mean they aren't into you, its possible its life circumstance. I always liked a lot of contact, that's what I preferred, because without it I felt the relationship was faltering. IN actuality though, the relationship wasn't faltering, because the person I was dealing with was very solid and steadfast. I on the other hand, have always been very changeable, and if Im not contacting you it means my mind is drifting somewhere else. I also had a lot of time on my hands, where he did not.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/11/2013 9:45:12 AM

MsEloquence

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

"Bossing around" a severe agoraphobic is ridiculous. Unless you are a trained therapist, you shouldn't be doing anything like that. For the record, bossing her around is not going to help her get out of the house.

Also for the record, therapists trained to work with agoraphobics go to them because of those issues.

Once again, being dominant doesn't equate to being someone's psychologist, and this is a prime example of not really having any idea what you are doing.

These are excellent points.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/11/2013 9:46:42 AM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Once again, being dominant doesn't equate to being someone's psychologist, and this is a prime example of not really having any idea what you are doing.

*laughs and laughs* And you... who really has no idea of the situation... are de-facto clueless. Conveniently enough for both myself and the woman in question neither of us are stupid so this may yet work out OK. She is already "out of the house" at least a bit. In the end, success will be determined by whether she actually gets to a local shrink. I kind of like reality in that way.

NOw, for the sake of other people on this thread... I have support on this one including one licensed and practicing therapist and another credentialed but not licenses one. LafayetteLady, in her typically arrogant way, is correct. Getting into psych issues without training or support is unwise. In this case my concern is that there are REASONS this has happened to this woman and while I can certainly get her out of her house dealing with the reasons under the surface is way above my pay grade. Hence... limiting my focus to getting her to a local pro and even then with support in depth.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/11/2013 10:56:31 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

........ My ex would tell me "I knew you would be waiting. Its good for you to wait."

That kinda thing.

Why in the world is he your EX?

Because I loved him more than I loved myself.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/11/2013 1:43:10 PM

LafayetteLady

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I think the big thing that everyone seems to be saying is that being busy isn't always because you are an asshole, you just have a really busy life. The scenario you used with a demanding job with lots of travel is a good one. But it is also reasonable to expect a person like that to be up front about their life situation right from the beginning.

Not getting back to someone quickly and saying it was because you were busy might work once in the beginning, but if it becomes a constant thing, it really is telling someone that they just aren't important enough for them to make the time. Sometimes the two people can discuss it and adjustments made, other times it just isn't going to happen.

Mostly if people were just honest with each other at the onset, things would go much more smoothly.

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RE: Do the rules of dating apply to the lifestyle - 6/11/2013 1:57:05 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Once again, being dominant doesn't equate to being someone's psychologist, and this is a prime example of not really having any idea what you are doing.

*laughs and laughs* And you... who really has no idea of the situation... are de-facto clueless. Conveniently enough for both myself and the woman in question neither of us are stupid so this may yet work out OK. She is already "out of the house" at least a bit. In the end, success will be determined by whether she actually gets to a local shrink. I kind of like reality in that way.

NOw, for the sake of other people on this thread... I have support on this one including one licensed and practicing therapist and another credentialed but not licenses one. LafayetteLady, in her typically arrogant way, is correct. Getting into psych issues without training or support is unwise. In this case my concern is that there are REASONS this has happened to this woman and while I can certainly get her out of her house dealing with the reasons under the surface is way above my pay grade. Hence... limiting my focus to getting her to a local pro and even then with support in depth.

Yes, my "typically arrogant" way. Especially since neither pro you spoke with mentioned that their are professionals who will go to her and work with her to get her out of the house.

So yes, I say it in a very arrogant way, because it aggravates the hell out of me when I see "doms" thinking the term is synonymous with "therapist."

I actually work with someone who was agoraphobic and still tends to retreat. And yes, I DO know the underlying reasons for him doing it and why he became that way.

It's great that you want to help this woman, but frankly you are out of your depth here. You aren't there to help her when going to the mailbox is too difficult. You aren't there to offer encouragement other than before or after.

An actual professional will be there with her as she tries to make her way out of the house. Giving her support is one thing, but encouraging her to leave the house without the support right there to help her pick up the pieces is not a good thing. It can be very dangerous for her.

Of course, you are going to keep doing it, and use your "contacts" as "instructors," but then they don't know her either, and also aren't there.

So tell me, why haven't you encouraged her to find a therapist that will come to her home and work with her properly?

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