RE: Why do you believe? (Full Version)

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RottenJohnny -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/13/2013 5:33:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Thanks.



You're welcome.



RottenJohnny -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/13/2013 5:39:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Well this is indeed mans first reason for thinking there must be some supernatural being. There was no other reason to explain the unexplained. Man wanted one, so they came up with the relatively modern notion of Religion.



I agree. But I would only suggest that there was no other way to explain the unexplainable.



GotSteel -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/13/2013 8:44:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
To think there is no God would make for an unhappy life for me.


No, it's quite common to think you'd feel that way but if you ever get ovr your faith it's not what happens.



Kirata -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/13/2013 9:06:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

when did Science deliver a negative finding on the existence of a greater reality?

Everything we know about Nature is in accord with the idea that the fundamental process of Nature lies outside space-time ~Henry Stapp

"greater reality" I hardly think so.

Oh gee, Politesub or Henry Stapp. Gimme a minute....

K.



Kirata -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/13/2013 9:08:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
To think there is no God would make for an unhappy life for me.


No, it's quite common to think you'd feel that way but if you ever get ovr your faith it's not what happens.

And you know this because everybody is just like you.

K.



MrBukani -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 12:44:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Well this is indeed mans first reason for thinking there must be some supernatural being. There was no other reason to explain the unexplained. Man wanted one, so they came up with the relatively modern notion of Religion.



I agree. But I would only suggest that there was no other way to explain the unexplainable.

Although this seems the most plausible reason, you must hold in account there could be other even better reasons. However unlikely they might seem to you.
Many people believe in the ancient alien theory wich is not based on explaining the unexplainable, but experiencing and acknowledging a supreme being. The Supreme Alien God Being.
In the past many theories have crumbled because we think them most plausible, like the earth was flat. So I think it's important to always look at all possibilities. And there is more than 2 or 3.



RottenJohnny -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 1:22:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Although this seems the most plausible reason, you must hold in account there could be other even better reasons. However unlikely they might seem to you.
Many people believe in the ancient alien theory wich is not based on explaining the unexplainable, but experiencing and acknowledging a supreme being. The Supreme Alien God Being.
In the past many theories have crumbled because we think them most plausible, like the earth was flat. So I think it's important to always look at all possibilities. And there is more than 2 or 3.


But in this day and age it's one thing to be agnostic in relation to God and quite another to be agnostic in relation to aliens. In order for your premise to be correct, if and when we actually find an alien life form it will have be undeniably tangible. But given the concept of faith, God never has to be tangible and neither does chaos. While I agree it's completely plausible, until I get to see an alien for myself I'm not going to assume they're the impetus for God. However, in line with my comments about chaos, I see that all the time. Therefore, it's much more plausible to me as a source for a belief in God.



MrBukani -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 1:39:45 AM)

I agree it's the most plausible theory. But I do want to keep exploring other variables to test their credibility. History has taught me great changes occur sometimes from the less likely causes. Because as I read in another post somewhere in the forum, we are wired that way.

So I am categorizing all variable theories and it does open my eyes to more possible realities.
In the end whatever theory I have read about, it always leads me to the conclusion nature is the one and only supreme being in theory. When more people can open their minds to that train of thought, we have a lot of common ground as a species to unify our beliefsystems.
Wich would bring about a more solid peace then we have ever known to my knowledge.
I see that as a noble cause. And I know some people don't agree with my methods how I go about achieving that goal. But that's probably part of my character, contemplated strategy and applied tactics.



RottenJohnny -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 2:29:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I agree it's the most plausible theory. But I do want to keep exploring other variables to test their credibility. History has taught me great changes occur sometimes from the less likely causes. Because as I read in another post somewhere in the forum, we are wired that way.

So I am categorizing all variable theories and it does open my eyes to more possible realities.
In the end whatever theory I have read about, it always leads me to the conclusion nature is the one and only supreme being in theory. When more people can open their minds to that train of thought, we have a lot of common ground as a species to unify our beliefsystems.
Wich would bring about a more solid peace then we have ever known to my knowledge.
I see that as a noble cause. And I know some people don't agree with my methods how I go about achieving that goal. But that's probably part of my character, contemplated strategy and applied tactics.


Quite honestly, in my opinion, the best way to understand God is to go search for him/her/it. Whether or not anyone really believes anything they're told about God, I feel worse for those who never contemplate the possibility. Even if it's just long enough to decide the whole idea is bullshit. I can at least respect the man that says, "I thought about it and I think it's crap."

But to actually answer the question posed by the OP...

The reason I believe is because my version of God is something that is undeniably real and is capable of achieving everything we attribute to God.



Rule -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 4:50:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
we have a lot of common ground as a species to unify our beliefsystems.
Wich would bring about a more solid peace then we have ever known to my knowledge.
I see that as a noble cause.

Why?

It is good to fight for civilization. The savages are beyond the Pale.



Politesub53 -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 11:10:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Oh gee, Politesub or Henry Stapp. Gimme a minute....

K.[/font][/size]


Is there a man living in the clouds with the Angels. Gimme a second.



Rule -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 11:22:27 AM)

Straw man fallacy. [8|]



cordeliasub -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 12:52:20 PM)

In early life I believed because I was taught, I was a child, and I believed.

It wasn't until I was older that I actually began to look at it for myself. I could list ways I believe I have seen God move in my life, ways I believe that He has sustained me, direction I believe He has given me. All of those could be dissected and seen as chance, wishful thinking, or stuff that would have happened anyway. I also believe because of the transformation I have experienced inwardly. One could spin that as emotion or maturation. I could say I believe because I see His hand in this...amazing and complex creation. But again...that could be chalked up to a giant explosion and thousands of things happening in just the right way.

In the final analysis, I guess faith would be the only one-word answer that would approximate it. I believe because...I believe. In my life I have seen and felt and "known" Him to be real. That is not something I could ever objectively convince someone of....just like I could list all the reasons I believe I am a submissive. When push comes to shove...I just KNOW, and that can't really be articulated.

I used to (and sometimes when I am down or hormonal still do) take it very personally when someone took my honest and open personal experience with my faith and tried to make it into something ridiculous or pathetic or unintelligent. But it really isn't my place to convince someone. I don't have faith just because someone rationally convinced me until I had no other choice. That is why it is called faith. It is the substance of things hoped for and the conviction of things not seen.

There are people who see what I see and have experienced some things I have experienced and would draw a completely different conclusion. I think sometimes there is some truth to the idea that we may see what we want to see and that we are incapable of seeing what we don;t want to see.

Not sure. But if I died tomorrow and it turns out there's....nothing, I do not regret having faith.



Rule -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 3:04:36 PM)

[sm=goodpost.gif]



MrBukani -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 6:39:36 PM)

Thats a insightfull piece. I like the part most at the end. That even if it wasn't true you have no regrets. Like another said imagine it is true I could'nt miss being a part of it.
It tells me a lot about the why do you believe.
What I miss in the abrahamic books is a lot of the why's.
I find a lot of that in greek philosophy. Like the contemplation of an afterlife. Or what is the soul. What is friendship.
I'm not the kind of person who is not capable to see what he doesn't want to see. That is actually the core of most of my contemplations.
What I miss in a lot of people, they cant truly see into another person and often dont WANT to understand.
And another interesting aspect I miss in the bible is the timeframe the world was set in. I understand a lot more about Jesus, from studying the era he lived in. My question is of that nature, do most people with faith really challenge and ivestigate their own and other religions?
In order to find the truth.
Some may do that but not the majority imo. That often gives me the feeling people are not openminded or maybe dont wanna confront the beauty they behold, lest they might find something horrific.



Rule -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 7:10:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
What I miss in the abrahamic books is a lot of the why's.

I recommend reading the Acts of the Apostles. As for the why's: people with limited minds have no need to know the why's.

Spirituality has to be experienced. It cannot be found in a book. It cannot be taught.
For those who cannot experience spirituality, there is always left the blind leap of faith - and yes, that is a gamble and requires courage.

This past evening I witnessed one of the people who had no Christian ancestors. He was a young negro. He was a beautiful man of the warrior or savage type and he clearly lacked the Holy Ghost in his mind. He took away my neighbour's house keys in the elevator, and when my neighbour protested, he pulled out a knife and searched my neighbour's pockets. Then they came up to my floor and disturbed me. Being a coward, I took refuge in my room.
I heard that the perp was later jumped by a number of policemen - who also sought him for a number of other transgressions - and taken away.

I do think that Christian people have a high frequency of good, decent people. Whereas in non-Christian peoples that frequency is quite a bit lower.



subfever -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/14/2013 8:26:32 PM)

quote:

What I would like to see is your best argument why you believe in anything.


Has anyone ever proved that a supreme being exists?

Has anyone ever proved that a supreme being does not exist?

Since no proof exists either way, the logical path to choose would then be to question why we have chosen to believe or not believe.



vincentML -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/15/2013 8:09:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

What I would like to see is your best argument why you believe in anything.


Has anyone ever proved that a supreme being exists?

Has anyone ever proved that a supreme being does not exist?

Since no proof exists either way, the logical path to choose would then be to question why we have chosen to believe or not believe.

Alternatively, in religion, morality and politics it may be we believe what we believe because that is who we are, who we have become through genes, emotions, and life experiences. Seeking beyond "I am who I am" for a rational may be pointless and delusional. Our beliefs are not likely rational except to ourselves and to those of similar beliefs. How else can you explain the irreconcilable chasm between believer/non-believer, left-wing/right-wing, ethical/unethical, socialist/libertarian, etc.

So, questioning why we have chosen as we have (as you suggest) is really an invitation to introspection and not an examination of conflicting beliefs. And I agree it is the better path to take. There is no point in debating who I am or in disparaging others for who they are as happens so often in these discussions.



pahunkboy -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/15/2013 10:04:28 AM)

This wont sound logical to you- but bare with me.


Of 2 people in my life that have passed on, I mourn more for the Christian then for the one who wasnt. Both were very close to me- and the one I mourn less for was my best friend for a number of years.

I have dreams of the Christian friend who passed- and never dream per my best friend.


So- the impact in my life - and I am amazed really- as I thought it would be the other way around.

Incidently-mourning for her- opened up a whole new friendship with my neighbor- and we are close- in some ways she is now my best friend. Almost her husband. She cooks for me every night, looks out for me. She has done this for 3 years now.

We been to 4 different churches together. I am not cutting down people who are not Christians - I am saying G*d has worked in a profound way in my life.



subfever -> RE: Why do you believe? (6/15/2013 11:29:38 AM)

quote:

There is no point in debating who I am or in disparaging others for who they are as happens so often in these discussions.


We only have two ways to approach anything... with logic or emotion.

Whether it be religion, morality, or politics... we are not born with these notions. We pick them up along the way from our environment. Why then, do we select some notions to embrace, while rejecting others?

Until existence or non-existence can be proven, they remain theories. Therefore, religion is a notion that is approached and embraced emotionally. If someone were asked if a supreme being exists, their only logical answer could be "I don't know." For if they answered yes or no, they may then need to address why they have chosen to embrace a notion based upon emotion.




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